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Some basic questions to ask when interpreting scriptures:

  1. Who wrote/spoke the passage and to whom was it addressed?
  2. What does the passage say?
  3. Are there any words or phrases in the passage that need to be examined?
  4. What is the immediate context?
  5. What is the broader context in the chapter and book?
  6. What are the related verses to the passage’s subject and how do they affect the understanding of this passage?
  7. What is the historical and cultural background?
  8. What do I conclude about the passage?
  9. Do my conclusions agree or disagree with related areas of Scripture and others who have studied the passage?
  10. What have I learned and what must I apply to my life?

This list isn't exhaustive by any means...and usually I ask more... especially if there are footnotes.
 
John 14:20-21 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

He is talking about the day we are born again of the Holy Spirit and we become one with God in the Spirit.
 
LovethroughDove said:
John 14:20-21 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

He is talking about the day we are born again of the Holy Spirit and we become one with God in the Spirit.
Click to expand...
Amen L,

Jesus Himself says that we are to obey Him....and yet I hear many say that obedience is a work and if we work we are no longer under grace.

Very strange beliefs indeed.
 
wondering said:
Amen L,

Jesus Himself says that we are to obey Him....and yet I hear many say that obedience is a work and if we work we are no longer under grace.

Very strange beliefs indeed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people are making it complicated. If you know his voice, then you follow him. If you don't know his voice.......then you are doing your own works
 
JohnDB said:
Some basic questions to ask when interpreting scriptures:

  1. Who wrote/spoke the passage and to whom was it addressed?
  2. What does the passage say?
  3. Are there any words or phrases in the passage that need to be examined?
  4. What is the immediate context?
  5. What is the broader context in the chapter and book?
  6. What are the related verses to the passage’s subject and how do they affect the understanding of this passage?
  7. What is the historical and cultural background?
  8. What do I conclude about the passage?
  9. Do my conclusions agree or disagree with related areas of Scripture and others who have studied the passage?
  10. What have I learned and what must I apply to my life?
This list isn't exhaustive by any means...and usually I ask more... especially if there are footnotes.
Click to expand...
Its really a straight path.
He asked just one question to the right person. Because He believed in Him.
"Lord would you remember me when you come into your Kingdom?"
 
I think as I reread the posts JBL does use the term born again to mean one who has the Spirit of Christ in them. So one born anew of the Spirit isn't yet filled with the Spirit.

I use the term born again in regard to one who is born of God and one who does have the Spirit of Christ in them. Whether that Spirit was given with the laying on of hands or not. With outward signs or not. With tongues of flames or not. However it is always sent by Jesus.

JBL=>Now that our spirit is reborn and cleansed, it is ready to be filled with the Spirit.
 
Jesus said two things are required to be born again in John 3:5.

---> What are those two things?

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
 
Walpole said:
Jesus said two things are required to be born again in John 3:5.

---> What are those two things?

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
Click to expand...
Actually that's what this thread is about.
Jesus wasn't telling Nicodemus that he needed something he was declaring what Nicodemus already was...and it was "born from above".

The proofs are listed several times throughout this thread.
 
JohnDB said:
Actually that's what this thread is about.
Jesus wasn't telling Nicodemus that he needed something he was declaring what Nicodemus already was...and it was "born from above".

The proofs are listed several times throughout this thread.
Click to expand...

I'm not following. Jesus, in answering Nicodemus' question as to how man can be born again, is explicit in verse 5 that two things are required in order for this to occur...

"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of ___and the ___, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"


---> What are those two things?

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
 
Walpole said:
I'm not following. Jesus, in answering Nicodemus' question as to how man can be born again, is explicit in verse 5 that two things are required in order for this to occur...

"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of and the , he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"


---> What are those two things?

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
Click to expand...
I don't see where Jesus identified it as a ritual.
 
WIP said:
I don't see where Jesus identified it as a ritual.
Click to expand...

Here again are the questions I asked...

---> What are those two things? (The things Jesus told Nicodemus are required to make one born again.)

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
 
Walpole said:
Here again are the questions I asked...

---> What are those two things? (The things Jesus told Nicodemus are required to make one born again.)

---> What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
Click to expand...
Ah. I see. I misread your post. I thought you asked what the ritual was. Perhaps the correct question might be, what do some Christians call the ritual in which this occurs.

Isn't a ritual a religious thing? Did Jesus promote religion or are religion and rituals human inventions?
 
WIP said:
Ah. I see. I misread your post. I thought you asked what the ritual was. Perhaps the correct question might be, what do some Christians call the ritual in which this occurs.

Isn't a ritual a religious thing? Did Jesus promote religion or are religion and rituals human inventions?
Click to expand...

Jesus very much promoted both religion and rituals.

Religion: a body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

---> "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples." (John 8:31)
---> "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)



Ritual: an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite

---> "Do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19)
---> "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor 11:23-24)
 
Walpole said:
Jesus very much promoted both religion and rituals.

Religion: a body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

---> "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples." (John 8:31)
---> "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)



Ritual: an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite

---> "Do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19)
---> "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor 11:23-24)
Click to expand...
Okay. When Jesus instituted communion, did He institute a ritual or a command? I hold to a command.
 
WIP said:
Okay. When Jesus instituted communion, did He institute a ritual or a command? I hold to a command.
Click to expand...

He commanded a ritual.

"Do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19)

"Do" = the command

"This" = the ritual He instituted (the Eucharistic sacrifice)
 
Walpole said:
He commanded a ritual.

"Do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19)

"Do" = the command

"This" = the ritual He instituted (the Eucharistic sacrifice)
Click to expand...
The way I understand a ritual is more like a ceremonial act or observance. Holy Communion is much more than that to me and therein lies my struggle.

At any rate, I would like to know your answers to the questions you originally asked?
 
I've written several long posts detailing the Aramaic poetry and mistranslation of this section. (God always speaks in poetry of some sort)
He was explaining to Nicodemus how he was able to see the King of God's Kingdom.
 
WIP said:
The way I understand a ritual is more like a ceremonial act or observance. Holy Communion is much more than that to me and therein lies my struggle.
Click to expand...

It is in the context of this rite / ceremonial act whereby man has communion with God.

WIP said:
At any rate, I would like to know your answers to the questions you originally asked?
Click to expand...

Jesus said two things are required to be born again in John 3:5.

"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

Q: What are those two things?
A: Water and the Spirit

Q: What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
A: Baptism
 
Walpole said:
It is in the context of this rite / ceremonial act whereby man has communion with God.



Jesus said two things are required to be born again in John 3:5.

"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

Q: What are those two things?
A: Water and the Spirit

Q: What do Christians call this ritual in which this occurs?
A: Baptism
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
If anyone wants to share some Early Church Fathers' quotes on what they thought born again meant, I would like to know

Also, did they believe in SPRINKLE or DUNK baptism?

PS: By early, I mean guys before Augustine.
 
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