Born Again?

[JohnDB]

If people are teaching from the word of God then nothing.


It’s when people are teaching man’s doctrine or commentary that goes against the scriptures that we have a problem.


Like the many pastors who teach Calvinism.




JLB

Calvinism is not a doctrine that I subscribe to but throughout history they have been real "workhorses " to promote the gospel message.
And since currently they aren't out to kill people I say leave them alone.

I don't subscribe to many different denominational theologies...Lutheranism, Presbyterians, Catholics or Assembly of God...but they aren't enemies of the Gospel. They simply have a different blend of hermeneutics than you do. Big deal. They aren't saying anything outside the box. The faithful of those denominations are responsible for many humanitarian activities all around the world.

And they all preach Jesus.

Why attack those who aren't enemies?

 

[JLB]

Calvinism is not a doctrine that I subscribe to but throughout history they have been real "workhorses " to promote the gospel message.

Like Jeff said there are some good things that Mr Calvin taught.


However I wouldn’t know, since I haven’t studied his work.


I just am familiar with some of his teaching through discussion here and on other Forums.


I think at the time it was a movement that was trying to move God’s people away from Catholicism, and was for the most part well meaning.


I’m not insinuating that you subscribe to Calvinism.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't subscribe to many different denominational theologies...Lutheranism, Presbyterians, Catholics or Assembly of God...but they aren't enemies of the Gospel. They simply have a different blend of hermeneutics than you do. Big deal. They aren't saying anything outside the box. The faithful of those denominations are responsible for many humanitarian activities all around the world.

And they all preach Jesus.

I will just have to take your word for it.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why attack those who aren't enemies?

I don’t attack anyone.


I do discuss scripture, though.


When people teach things that are against sound doctrine I try to show the scripture that their doctrine goes against.





JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Like Jeff said there are some good things that Mr Calvin taught.


However I wouldn’t know, since I have study his work.


I just am familiar with some of his teaching through discussion here and on other Forums.


I think at the time it was a movement that was trying to move God’s people away from Catholicism, and was for the most part well meaning.


I’m not insinuating that you subscribe to Calvinism.




JLB

Ummm
Calvinists are the only reason you have an English translation of the bible today...they were the pilgrims who settled north America. They all carried Geneva Bibles which were of Calvinist origin. It was the bible of the 1500's & 1600's and some still carried it into the1700's.

Just saying...every denomination played a role of some kind. Even the Amish. (And I like electronics way too much to subscribe to their theologies)

 

[JohnDB]

I don’t attack anyone.

Umm you just used "calvinism" as someone who doesn't preached the Gospel message.

Let's see exactly what you said here:

If people are teaching from the word of God then nothing.
It’s when people are teaching man’s doctrine or commentary that goes against the scriptures that we have a problem.
Like the many pastors who teach Calvinism.
JLB

"Calvinism goes against scriptures" seems to be your exact opinion...
But they are the guys who created the first "everyman's" bible...the very reason Shakespeare could quote it in his plays and everyone could say which book, chapter, and verse the quote came from....because for the first time everyone could have a bible of their own because of the bible the Calvinists made.

Something doesn't seem to add up here.

 

[JLB]

Ummm
Calvinists are the only reason you have an English translation of the bible today...they were the pilgrims who settled north America.

How do you know?

 

[JohnDB]

How do you know?

Its recorded history.

 

[JLB]

Umm you just used "calvinism" as someone who doesn't preached the Gospel message.

Not true.


Here is what I said -


If people are teaching from the word of God then nothing.
It’s when people are teaching man’s doctrine or commentary that goes against the scriptures that we have a problem.
Like the many pastors who teach Calvinism.


“Gospel Message” is no where to be found in my quote.



If you misquote me, then why would I want to trust you to get someone’s else quote from their commentary right?


Let’s just stick to the scriptures.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Its recorded history.

Who recorded it, Democrats or Republicans?


Christian or atheist?



JLB

 

[JLB]

"Calvinism goes against scriptures" seems to be your exact opinion...
But they are the guys who created the first "everyman's" bible...the very reason Shakespeare could quote it in his plays and everyone could say which book, chapter, and verse the quote came from....because for the first time everyone could have a bible of their own because of the bible the Calvinists made.

Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Jehovah’s witnesses created a bible to.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Calvinism goes against scriptures" seems to be your exact opinion...
But they are the guys who created the first "everyman's" bible...the very reason Shakespeare could quote it in his plays and everyone could say which book, chapter, and verse the quote came from....because for the first time everyone could have a bible of their own because of the bible the Calvinists made.

Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Do you quote scripture from their bible?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Just saying...every denomination played a role of some kind.

Amen.


I think every denomination probably was formed from a move of God at that time.

 

[Butch5]

Wow.
I think we were separated at birth!

Just one comment,,,
Some believe baptism is the sign of the N. C.
Some believe it's the eucharist.
By some, I mean biblical scholars.

Lol, That's funny. It's rare that I find people who hold this position. I've spent about 10 years or so studying the Scriptures from a contextual, historical, and grammatical perspective. It's really given me insight into a lot of what the Scriptures actually teach.

I tend to believe that baptism is the entrance into the New Covenant.

 

[Butch5]

All of the above is correct.
In fact, it's the baptismal beliefs of the early church that lead to confession...but that's another story.

Could you then answer this for me:

Jesus said:
Acts 1:8
8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”


What did Jesus mean by the Holy Spirit will come upon you? (the same phrase Gabriel used with Mary)

The way I understand it is that this is referring to the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told them that they would receive power. We know that on Pentecost they did receive power and spoke in tongues. When Jesus said this to them they had already received the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus ascended He said to them,

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (Jn. 20:21-22 KJV)

I believe that this event in John 20 is when the apostles were indwelt with the Holy Spirit and what happened in Acts if when they received the miraculous power of God via the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Lol, That's funny. It's rare that I find people who hold this position. I've spent about 10 years or so studying the Scriptures from a contextual, historical, and grammatical perspective. It's really given me insight into a lot of what the Scriptures actually teach.

I tend to believe that baptism is the entrance into the New Covenant.

Which baptism are you referring to?

 

[JLB]

The way I understand it is that this is referring to the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told them that they would receive power. We know that on Pentecost they did receive power and spoke in tongues. When Jesus said this to them they had already received the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus ascended He said to them,

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (Jn. 20:21-22 KJV)

I believe that this event in John 20 is when the apostles were indwelt with the Holy Spirit and what happened in Acts if when they received the miraculous power of God via the Holy Spirit.

Interesting info on your website.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Since no women were ever recorded as being baptized why are women today being baptized?

Because it’s biblical.


But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Acts 8:12





JLB

 

[Randy]

This second work of grace, is it the baptism of the Holy Spirit?


JLB

Yes, but in reference to that which brought christian perfection. The only problem is the Apostles never taught to seek another work of grace nor mention Christ in us as a 2nd work of grace. Christ in us is the gift of God. Born of the Spirit. The way Jesus baptizes. Though they have trouble explaining the meaning of christian perfection and some state both works of grace can happen at the same time. There is confusion and uncertainty with this doctrine. Also the 2nd work of grace isn't needed for salvation.

The movement is Wesleyan-Armenian in theology, and is defined by its emphasis on John Wesley's doctrine of a second work of grace leading to Christian perfection.

 

[JLB]

Yes, but in reference to that which brought christian perfection. The only problem is the Apostles never taught to seek another work of grace nor mention Christ in us as a 2nd work of grace. Christ in us is the gift of God. Born of the Spirit.

Yes that is when we are born again.


Now that our spirit is reborn and cleansed, it is ready to be filled with the Spirit.





The baptism with the Holy Spirit, like baptism in water comes after a person believes, or receives the Gospel message and is saved; born again, regenerated.


And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Acts 8:11-13


At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.


They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 8:14-19




JLB