I actually took the time to read Calvin on predestination. I don't happen to accept his doctrine, but it was far more plausible-sounding than I had expected.
The more plausible view, which I share, is that the Bible is talking about "corporate" predestination. God predestined that all who turned to Christ would be saved.
The more interesting question to me is whether God foreknew who these individuals would be. This is a very complex issue, as anyone who has tried to follow William Lane Craig's discussion of "counterfactuals" and God's "middle knowledge" will agree.
My belief is that no, God didn't and doesn't know. This to me makes God's act of creation a far richer and more meaningful one, to God as well as to us.
The objection is that a God who doesn't know isn't omniscient and therefore isn't perfect. The notion of omniscience isn't particularly biblical. It arises out of one of the standard "proofs" of God's existence, whereby the most perfect conceivable being must exist.
I find nothing "imperfect" about a God who chooses to create creatures with genuine free will and to place them in a challenging moral environment where there is real risk they may reject him. Quite the contrary - I think this is closer to a God who is the greatest conceivable being.
My view, of course, is about as far from Calvinistic predestination as it could be, but it is fully consistent with corporate predestination.
Yea.... Calvinism suxs.... Because he did not understand Scripture...
Predestination you bet you scriptures...!!!
NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance,
having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,
29 since we were predestined (
G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will
29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō)
in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant
"obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner,
Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.
G4309
προορίζω
proorízō; fut. proorísō, from pró (G4253), before, and horízō (G3724),
to determine. To determine or decree beforehand
Word study
G4309
προορίζω
proorízō; fut.
proorísō, from
pró (G4253), before, and
horízō (G3724),
to determine. To determine or decree beforehand (
Act_4:28;
Rom_8:29-30;
1Co_2:7;
Eph_1:5,
Eph_1:11). The peace of the Christian Church has been disrupted due to the misunderstanding which surrounds this word. It behooves the Church to consider the divinely intended meaning of this word by carefully examining the critical passages where it is used.
In
1Co_2:7 it has a thing as its obj., namely, the wisdom of God. The purpose was our glory, i.e., our benefits of salvation.
In
Act_4:28 the verb is followed by the aor. inf.
genésthai (
gínomai [G1096], to be, become), to be done.
The action of Herod and Pontius Pilate in crucifying Jesus Christ is said to have been predetermined or foreordained by the hand and will of God. This indicates that Christ's mission, especially His death and resurrection, was not ultimately the result of human will but originated in the eternal counsel of God which decreed the event determining all its primary and secondary causes, instruments, agents, and contingencies.
In
Rom_8:29-30, predestination is used of God's actions in eternally decreeing both the objects and goal of His plan of salvation.
Proorízō has a personal obj., the pl. relative pron.
hoús, whom. This relative pron. refers to those previously mentioned as those whom God foreknew (
proégnō [G4267]). The translation is, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate." The objects of predestination are those whom He foreknew. Predestination does not involve a predetermined plan only but also includes the individuals for whom the plan is devised. The goal of predestination is expressed in the phrase, "to be conformed to the image of his Son."
In
Eph_1:5,
Eph_1:11 this same purpose of foreordination is termed adoption. Adoption (
huiothesía [G5206]) is the placing into sonship or legal heirship of those who are born of God. According to
Eph_1:5 the basis of this prior decree is "the good pleasure of His will." The word rendered "good pleasure" is
eudokía (G2107) and means pleasure or satisfaction, that which seems good. Paul is careful to add that it is the good pleasure of God's will, it is what seems good to God-not man. Similarly, in
Eph_1:11 foreordination is based upon "the purpose (
próthesis [G4286]) of the One who is working all things ([neut. acc. pl.]
tá pánta [G3844], an idiom for the entire metaphysical and physical universe) according to the decision of His will" (a.t.). This same thinking is reflected in
Rom_8:30 where foreordination is joined successively to foreknowledge. Here it is presented not as a capricious, arbitrary or whimsical exercise of raw will or unreasoned impulse, but as the expression of a deliberate and wise plan which purposes to redeem those undeserving sinners whom God freely favors as the objects of His mercy.
Because it is neither possible nor permissible for us to pry into God's secret counsel, it is not proper to be fixated with determining who the predestined are. Instead, we should contemplate the glories of what they are predestined to, i.e., salvation, adoption, or glory.
Syn.:
protássō (G4384), to appoint before;
procheirízō (G4400), to appoint beforehand;
proetoimázō (G4282), to prepare before.
Word study
G2820
κληρόω
klēróō; contracted
klērṓ, fut.
klērṓsō, from
klḗros (G2819),
a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In
Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.
Deriv.:
prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.
The problem you have is.... the wages of Sin... Not Calvin!
Gen 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Gen 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat,
for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Now did God tell Adam "for in the day that you eat from it you will surely burn in a fire for
Eternity"?.
No... You will die... Just like countless Christians across time! That penalty is still inforce to this DAY!!!
Jesus died so you could be ressurected... Jesus is the First born from the Dead... the first to be raised to immortality.
2Ti 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Col 1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
It's all about the coming kingdom... and whom has been chosen to rule for 1000 years... Nothing about Heaven or Hell... Come on Runner... read the scriptures with out your Modern world view!
Paul
