Argument Against “Double Predestination” and Support for the Tripartite View

[Alfred Persson]

Thanks for your response.
Consider Romans 14 when it comes to the Icons.

I do. I don't charge the Orthdox with idolatry, their conscience evidently agrees with it being "veneration". I just can't do it, it would be sinful for me. So I am applying Romans 14.

When I pray I know my prayer is passing through the heavens, going to God Himself in His Holy of Holies. It wasn't always that way. Before being born from above, it seemed like my prayer was stopped by the clouds.

That's why icons would "get in the way", be "misdirection."

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

I do. I don't charge the Orthdox with idolatry, their conscience evidently agrees with it being "veneration". I just can't do it, it would be sinful for me. So I am applying Romans 14.

When I pray I know my prayer is passing through the heavens, going to God Himself in His Holy of Holies. It wasn't always that way. Before being born from above, it seemed like my prayer was stopped by the clouds.

That's why icons would "get in the way", be "misdirection."

What I am trying to tell you is that, within the Orthodox Church, you are not forced to venerate icons. You are not forced to do anything against your conscience. Furthermore, over the centuries, the Church developed certain vocal "tones" for Liturgical Chant which allow for an individual who does not want to participate in the actual liturgy but rather, just wishes to pray, can do so without distraction.
I highly recommend attending an Orthodox Liturgy at least once.

 

[Alfred Persson]

What I am trying to tell you is that, within the Orthodox Church, you are not forced to venerate icons. You are not forced to do anything against your conscience. Furthermore, over the centuries, the Church developed certain vocal "tones" for Liturgical Chant which allow for an individual who does not want to participate in the actual liturgy but rather, just wishes to pray, can do so without distraction.
I highly recommend attending an Orthodox Liturgy at least once.

Thanks for the info. I might do that. When researching early Christian belief the Orthodox should be first on one's list. Athanasius is my hero for a lot of reasons. Peace.

 

[Alfred Persson]

What I am trying to tell you is that, within the Orthodox Church, you are not forced to venerate icons. You are not forced to do anything against your conscience. Furthermore, over the centuries, the Church developed certain vocal "tones" for Liturgical Chant which allow for an individual who does not want to participate in the actual liturgy but rather, just wishes to pray, can do so without distraction.
I highly recommend attending an Orthodox Liturgy at least once.

To illustrate my reaction to icons:

You are speaking to someone behind you. You never saw him, don't have a clue what he looks like. But you speak directly to him without an image of what he looks like.

That' how I pray to Yahweh, Father Son and Holy Spirit, our One God in Jesus' name. I know He hears me in His Holy Temple in heaven.

I "face towards it" as I pray, knowing my prayer enters the Holy of Holies and is heard by God Himself. He is my Father.

Any image in my mind, or in front of my eyes, would misdirect my prayer.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Argument Against “Double Predestination” and Support for the Tripartite View​

Many theologians reject the Calvinist doctrine of “Double Predestination,” which asserts that God has predestined some individuals to salvation (the Elect) and others to condemnation (the Reprobate). These theologians emphasize that scripture affirms God’s desire for all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4) and for “everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9), suggesting that salvation is not limited to a preselected group. Despite these clear passages, committed Calvinists often interpret them in a way that aligns with their doctrine of limited atonement and unconditional election, asserting that these texts do not conflict with double predestination.

Centuries of theological debate have failed to definitively challenge the entrenched doctrine of double predestination. However, this doctrine rests on an “unsound inference”: the idea that humanity is divided solely into two groups—the Elect and the Reprobate. This inference is not an explicit biblical statement. A closer look at scripture, supported by early Jewish teachings, suggests a more nuanced Tripartite View that divides humanity into three distinct categories:

1. The Foreordained (Elect) – Those predestined for salvation (Romans 8:29-30).
2. The Contingent (Middling) – Those whose final status depends on their response to God’s grace (Titus 2:11; Romans 2:6-7).
3. The Unyielding (Reprobate) – Those who persist in rejection and disobedience (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; Romans 1:21-24).

Historical and Scriptural Roots of the Tripartite View​

The Tripartite View has strong support not only in Christian scripture but also in early Jewish teachings, specifically from the School of Hillel, which influenced the Apostle Paul (Acts 22:3; 23:6). This school taught a view of humanity divided into the Righteous, Middling, and Wicked, as documented in the Babylonian Talmud:

Rabbinic Teaching (Babylonian Talmud, Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a):

• Three books are opened by God on the New Year: one for the thoroughly righteous, one for the thoroughly wicked, and one for the middling.
• The righteous are immediately inscribed for life.
• The wicked are immediately inscribed for death.
• The middling are left in suspense from New Year until the Day of Atonement, when their fate is determined based on their deeds.

Rabbi Abin supports this view using Psalm 69:28: “Let them be blotted out of the book of the living. Let them not be inscribed among the righteous.” His reasoning:

• The thoroughly righteous are inscribed in the Book of Life.
• The middling have their status determined based on their merit.
• Those who are not inscribed among the righteous are consigned to the Book of the Wicked.

Scriptural Support for the Tripartite View​

1. The Existence of Books for Different Groups (Revelation 20:11-15)

• Revelation 20:12-15 describes the final judgment where multiple books are opened, and the dead are judged by their deeds. The Book of Life, containing the names of the elect, is contrasted with other records. Those not found in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire, implying the existence of a record for those whose names are blotted out or excluded due to unrepentance.

2. The Foreordained (Romans 8:29-30)

• “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son…”
• This supports the idea of a group that is chosen and predestined for salvation from the foundation of the world.

3. The Contingent (Titus 2:11; Romans 2:6-7)

• Titus 2:11: “For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.”
• Romans 2:6-7: “God ‘will repay each person according to what they have done.’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life.”
• These verses support the notion that individuals can move toward salvation based on their response to God’s grace, highlighting the potential of the Middling to become righteous.

4. The Unyielding (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; Romans 1:21-24)

• 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12: “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved…so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
• Romans 1:21-24: Describes those who, although aware of God, chose not to honor Him, leading God to “give them up” to their desires.
• These passages depict the Unyielding as those who resist and reject divine truth persistently, sealing their fate.

Scriptural and Historical Proofs of the Middling Group​

Malachi 3:16-18 affirms a group that stands between the thoroughly righteous and the wicked:

• “Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD listened and heard them; so a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD…”
• This “book of remembrance” suggests a group whose fate depends on their deeds and devotion.

Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 13:8 imply that the Book of Life was written from the foundation of the world and that those not found in it are destined for judgment. This confirms that there are names that can be added to or blotted out of the Book of Life, supporting the existence of a Middling group whose final destiny is not preordained but contingent on their response.

Conclusion​

The Tripartite View of humanity is rooted in scripture and early Jewish teachings, revealing that:

• The Foreordained (Elect) are those chosen for salvation from the beginning.
• The Contingent (Middling) are those whose ultimate destiny depends on their response to God’s grace and their actions.
• The Unyielding (Wicked) are those who persistently reject God’s truth and face condemnation.

This view challenges the binary construct of double predestination by introducing a more nuanced understanding, one where God’s desire for all to come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Peter 3:9) and the potential for change in the Middling are acknowledged. It maintains the integrity of scripture while providing a deeper, more comprehensive approach to divine judgment and human freedom.

You have to come up with better passages to make the case for the "middling" group, since the two to which you refer can be refuted with the contexts' meanings. No one will be judged for heaven or hell by their works.

Even in the famous description of the final judgment in Matthew 25:34 ("Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.'), it's by the Father's blessing that the sheep enter the final kingdom; good works are the result of that blessing.

In the Titus verse, God's grace brings salvation, which Titus was to proclaim to everyone.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. Calvin, J. (1997). Institutes of the Christian religion. Logos Bible Software.


Calvins own words proves I did not misrepresent Calvin.

For a brief time I was a Calvinist. But it was very brief. Scripture genuinely offers salvation to everyone who wants it.

And I do not malign the Reformed. I often have said their scholarship is top notch.

Evidently you want to deny Reformed Theologians exist, categorized as supralapsarians who do profess double predestination.


I'd love to discuss what I believe, have you try to disprove it, but I reject all claims I haven't been totally accurate about Calvin. I did not misrepresent him or the Reformed.

The Reformed professors in Calvin Seminary taught me that God actively predestined believers but passively let unbelievers have their own way in their rebellious self-centeredness.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You have to come up with better passages to make the case for the "middling" group, since the two to which you refer can be refuted with the contexts' meanings. No one will be judged for heaven or hell by their works.

Even in the famous description of the final judgment in Matthew 25:34 ("Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.'), it's by the Father's blessing that the sheep enter the final kingdom; good works are the result of that blessing.

In the Titus verse, God's grace brings salvation, which Titus was to proclaim to everyone.

If it could be refuted you should have done so. You didn't, it can't.

As for "these my brethren" who Christ clearly is pointing to, who are neither sheep or goats, but once were humans who the sheep aided, but the goats did not....obviously are the raptured church.

The Sheep and goats were left behind, they missed the rapture.

Now they are being judged for how they treated saved Christians during the Great Tribulation.

So there are three classes, the saved and undetermined until Christ sorts them out, according to their works--the righteous and unrigheous.

Their salvation is still by grace. Christ gracefully equates their charity towards "My Brethren" as "receiving Him", and therefore they are saved. Its still an unmerited salvation they receive. Their paltry works could never merit eternity in God's kingdom, no amount of charity on earth can merit that.

 

[Whatever]

That isn't what I believe. You misunderstood what I said completely.

You quote me out of context to allege a pretext, I don't believe God looks forward to learn things.

Most of the time when I reply to something you have wrote, I am not thinking of refuting exactly what I think you believe. I am replying to what I know a lot of others have said.
There is a pastor in a Church here who went to Bible college, when he deals with passages like:
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world . . .
He will then cross reference it with:
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined . . .
And then explains it as God looking forward into time to see who will believe and then He chooses or predestines those. It is all based on what God foresees people doing.

I've always said this is salvation by works. Salvation by meeting some criteria. God sees you meet this criteria and so He picks you. You basically save yourself. I've always said that if this is so, when you are in Heaven, you can look down on all those in Hell and say "Ha, ha, I chose wisely. You had the same chance I did but chose wrong."
That totally contradicts Paul asking "Where is boasting?"

 

[Alfred Persson]

Most of the time when I reply to something you have wrote, I am not thinking of refuting exactly what I think you believe. I am replying to what I know a lot of others have said.
There is a pastor in a Church here who went to Bible college, when he deals with passages like:
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world . . .
He will then cross reference it with:
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined . . .
And then explains it as God looking forward into time to see who will believe and then He chooses or predestines those. It is all based on what God foresees people doing.

I've always said this is salvation by works. Salvation by meeting some criteria. God sees you meet this criteria and so He picks you. You basically save yourself. I've always said that if this is so, when you are in Heaven, you can look down on all those in Hell and say "Ha, ha, I chose wisely. You had the same chance I did but chose wrong."
That totally contradicts Paul asking "Where is boasting?"

What others say is irrelevant to me. For example, God foreknew those He predestined, not by looking into their future....

As God is omniscient He already knows the future without foreknowledge.

Rather, the meaning of foreknowing is to "know before". If you highlight text, it is "known before" the unhighlighted text.

In God's omniscience He selected those who responded to His Love, with love, and THESE alone are "foreknown" by themselves for God to enjoy them specially. That a special relationship exists with those God foreknown is implied by the word's usage in Romans 11:2.

God isn't "learning" when He foreknows, He is Knowing before what He already knows. Gives it more attention as it were.

AND none of this prevents the non-elect from being saved. The gospel goes out to everyone, and everyone has an equal chance to believe and be saved. The Elect are saved "through faith "when they believe" just like everyone else.

Predestination gurantees none of them will be lost because of this fallen world.

The same gurantee of "once saved always saved" applies also to the "non-elect" once they are born again, given eternal life.

However, the non-elect who don't repent and confess Christ's Name publicy are not saved, and they can backslide and become reprobate.
8 "Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God.
9 "But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. (Lk. 12:8-9 NKJ)

Hence scripture warns them to overcome or have their names blotted out of the book of life:

5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."' (Rev. 3:5-6 NKJ)

Only the non-elect can have their names blotted out, if they haven't gone all the way to Jesus before they die.

There is no partiality with God. He saves everyone who comes to His Son Jesus. But to ensure those He foreknew don't get lost because of this fallen world, He predestines them unto salvation, to justification and then glorification.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28-30 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Reformed professors in Calvin Seminary taught me that God actively predestined believers but passively let unbelievers have their own way in their rebellious self-centeredness.

Most reformed reject double predestination. But its impossible to say Calvin didn't explicitly teach it, and do his best to defend God against any charge of wrong doing.

Where the Reformed blow it is their supposing only a remnant will be saved. Billions will be saved, uncountable like the stars of heaven: