Is Calvinism Il-legal Salvation?

[Robert Pate]

New Covenant salvation is a declaration that we are legally saved. The law has been fulfilled and abolished. All sin has been atoned for. Christians now stand in God's Holy Court as justified. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

The word "Justification" is a legal word. It means to be found innocent or justified. Paul used the words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" over fifty times in his epistles. Jesus is God's justifier. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. This is how we are legally saved.

I have read the Calvinist "Canons of Dort" several times. The words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" are absent. They are not to be found in any Calvinist doctrines. This is a concern, because no one will see heaven if they have not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In the judgment God must see us in Christ as justified. If God does not see us as justified, we will perish.

Another word that is absent from the "Canons of Dort" is the word "Reconciled". Because we have been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus we are reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. If Jesus has reconciled us unto God that means that no one needs to be predestinated. This is why the word "Reconciled" is absent from the Canons of Dort.

 

[Robert Pate]

No one will see heaven that has not been justified and reconciled unto God. This is what the Gospel is about. The Gospel is not about predestination. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and what he has done to provide salvation for fallen man. If you have been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus and reconciled unto God, then you won't need to be predestinated.

 

[Iconoclast]

New Covenant salvation is a declaration that we are legally saved. The law has been fulfilled and abolished. All sin has been atoned for. Christians now stand in God's Holy Court as justified. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

The word "Justification" is a legal word. It means to be found innocent or justified. Paul used the words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" over fifty times in his epistles. Jesus is God's justifier. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. This is how we are legally saved.

I have read the Calvinist "Canons of Dort" several times. The words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" are absent. They are not to be found in any Calvinist doctrines. This is a concern, because no one will see heaven if they have not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In the judgment God must see us in Christ as justified. If God does not see us as justified, we will perish.

Another word that is absent from the "Canons of Dort" is the word "Reconciled". Because we have been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus we are reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. If Jesus has reconciled us unto God that means that no one needs to be predestinated. This is why the word "Reconciled" is absent from the Canons of Dort.

Do you just blot it all out of your bible?

 

[Iconoclast]

No one will see heaven that has not been justified and reconciled unto God. This is what the Gospel is about. The Gospel is not about predestination. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and what he has done to provide salvation for fallen man. If you have been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus and reconciled unto God, then you won't need to be predestinated.

Why are you saying these things?

 

[Robert Pate]

Why are you saying these things?

Because I am trying to get you to see the truth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Robert Pate where is your scriptural support as you once again are only giving your views and opinions that are not justified by the word of God. God's salvation is by His grace through faith that He gave His only begotten son that "whosoever" will believe in Him will have eternal life, John 3:5-7, 16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9-10.

Faith comes by hearing the preaching of the word like that on the day of Pentecost.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

We are justified by faith, Romans 5:1,9; Titus 3:7

 

[Iconoclast]

Because I am trying to get you to see the truth.

Robert,
I believe you believe that. You think you have truth on these matters.
Your beliefs contradict all kinds of teaching however, so we cannot follow you. You have a mix of truth and error that turns what you offer into the false teaching of antinomianism. This is more deadly than what you are fighting against.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,
I believe you believe that. You think you have truth on these matters.
Your beliefs contradict all kinds of teaching however, so we cannot follow you. You have a mix of truth and error that turns what you offer into the false teaching of antinomianism. This is more deadly than what you are fighting against.

Why is it that you cannot refute what I say with scripture? All that you can come up with is your opinion.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why is it that you cannot refute what I say with scripture? All that you can come up with is your opinion.

Maybe if you gave scripture then we could have a better discussion with you.

 

[GodsGrace]

New Covenant salvation is a declaration that we are legally saved. The law has been fulfilled and abolished. All sin has been atoned for. Christians now stand in God's Holy Court as justified. Because of the doing and dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

The word "Justification" is a legal word. It means to be found innocent or justified. Paul used the words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" over fifty times in his epistles. Jesus is God's justifier. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. This is how we are legally saved.

I have read the Calvinist "Canons of Dort" several times. The words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" are absent. They are not to be found in any Calvinist doctrines. This is a concern, because no one will see heaven if they have not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In the judgment God must see us in Christ as justified. If God does not see us as justified, we will perish.

Another word that is absent from the "Canons of Dort" is the word "Reconciled". Because we have been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus we are reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. If Jesus has reconciled us unto God that means that no one needs to be predestinated. This is why the word "Reconciled" is absent from the Canons of Dort.

I see scripture above.
The onus is on the other posters to prove Robert Pate wrong.

 

[Robert Pate]

Maybe if you gave scripture then we could have a better discussion with you.

I am old and have multiple health problems. I can only sit in front of this computer for short periods of time. I do not expect to live until the end of the year. Maybe you should get off of my case.

 

[atpollard]

I have read the Calvinist "Canons of Dort" several times. The words "Justification", "Justify", "Justified" are absent. They are not to be found in any Calvinist doctrines.

1. The Cannons of Dort were written specifically for the purpose of responding to the Five Articles of Remonstrances presented by the Arminians. Anything not brought up in the Remonstrances would not have needed a response from Dort.
2. The Cannons of Dort are not the totality of “Calvinist” Doctrine. Have you looked in the Westminster Confession of Faith or the London Confession of Faith, both of which are more comprehensive statements of Reformed Faith (and both probably cover Justification in great detail). I would personally suggest the Heidelberg Catechism, which is older, simpler and I found more enjoyable to read than WCF or LCF.

 

[atpollard]

Heidelberg Catechism

Q12. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity:
how then can we escape this punishment and return to God’s favor?
A. God requires that his justice be satisfied.1
Therefore the claims of this justice
must be paid in full,
either by ourselves or by another.2
1 Ex. 23:7; Rom. 2:1-11
2 Isa. 53:11; Rom. 8:3-4

​

Q13. Can we make this payment ourselves?
A. Certainly not.
Actually, we increase our debt every day.1
1 Matt. 6:12; Rom. 2:4-5

​

Q14. Can another creature—any at all—pay this debt for us?
A. No.
To begin with,
God will not punish any other creature
for what a human is guilty of.1
Furthermore,
no mere creature can bear the weight
of God’s eternal wrath against sin
and deliver others from it.2
1 Ezek. 18:4, 20; Heb. 2:14-18
2 Ps. 49:7-9; 130:3

​

Q15. What kind of mediator and deliverer should we look for then?
A. One who is a true1 and righteous2 human,
yet more powerful than all creatures,
that is, one who is also true God.3
1 Rom. 1:3; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:17
2 Isa. 53:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:26
3 Isa. 7:14; 9:6; Jer. 23:6; John 1:1

(follow the link to read more of the Heidelberg Catechism)

 

[for_his_glory]

I am old and have multiple health problems. I can only sit in front of this computer for short periods of time. I do not expect to live until the end of the year. Maybe you should get off of my case.

Sorry to hear about your health issues and you are in my prayers

It's not so much that we are on your case as all we want is to discuss scripture with you if you would only post them in support of what you give. How can anyone learn just by hear say. We have nothing personal against you, but that we want to have good discussions with you as we all share the scriptures with each other.

In the short time you might possibly have here on earth, as none of us are promised our next breath, would it not be better to go out by preaching and sharing the word of God with others, even with your dying breath that could bring another to Christ? How can one teach another if they do not use scripture!

 

[Robert Pate]

Heidelberg Catechism

Q12. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity:
how then can we escape this punishment and return to God’s favor?
A. God requires that his justice be satisfied.1
Therefore the claims of this justice
must be paid in full,
either by ourselves or by another.2
1 Ex. 23:7; Rom. 2:1-11
2 Isa. 53:11; Rom. 8:3-4

​

Q13. Can we make this payment ourselves?
A. Certainly not.
Actually, we increase our debt every day.1
1 Matt. 6:12; Rom. 2:4-5

​

Q14. Can another creature—any at all—pay this debt for us?
A. No.
To begin with,
God will not punish any other creature
for what a human is guilty of.1
Furthermore,
no mere creature can bear the weight
of God’s eternal wrath against sin
and deliver others from it.2
1 Ezek. 18:4, 20; Heb. 2:14-18
2 Ps. 49:7-9; 130:3

​

Q15. What kind of mediator and deliverer should we look for then?
A. One who is a true1 and righteous2 human,
yet more powerful than all creatures,
that is, one who is also true God.3
1 Rom. 1:3; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:17
2 Isa. 53:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:26
3 Isa. 7:14; 9:6; Jer. 23:6; John 1:1

(follow the link to read more of the Heidelberg Catechism)

You can post whatever you like, but any religion that says God predestinates people to heaven and to hell is false. Man is not responsible for his sins, God created Adam and Adam sinned causing the fall of humanity. God has assumed the full responsibility for the sins of humanity by sending his Son Jesus Christ into the world to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9, but nothing is ours until it is received by faith.

 

[atpollard]

You can post whatever you like, but any religion that says God predestinates people to heaven and to hell is false.

Does Reformed Theology say that? Where, exactly?

 

[atpollard]

1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

---

7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

 

[Robert Pate]

1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

---

7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

Hogwash. There is no scripture that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. The scripture that you listed is also for me who is not a Calvinist.

 

[atpollard]

Hogwash. There is no scripture that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. The scripture that you listed is also for me who is not a Calvinist.

There may be no scripture that states God predestination people to hell, but the Baptist Confession of Faith also DOES NOT STATE that God predestines people to hell … so you may want to reread what I actually posted before you correct it. The scripture is for EVERYONE and simply states what the Baptist Confession affirms. That is why it was included in the Confession, so you could follow the Berean example and check scripture against the Baptist Confession to confirm what the Confession claimed for yourself.

 

[Fastfredy0]

so you could follow the Berean example and check scripture

LOL ... I don't think there are many Bereans in here.

I see Robert Pate actually quoted some scripture to support his contention. This is refreshing.
The verses are based on the ambiguous words ALL and EVERYONE which could mean ALL WITHOUT DISTINCTION or ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION
Examples of ALL WITHOUT DISTINCTION:

• Matthew 3:5 At that time Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan; it would be incredulous to believe everyone including babies, the blind, the disabled went to see Jesus
• John 14:26 But the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will help you remember everything that I have told you. The Spirit has infinite knowledge so the transference of “ALL” without exception is not possible.
• Acts 26:4 Paul says, The Jews all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem. Does he mean that every Jew without exception knew him? How about those who lived in the past and those who would live in the future?

These are examples of the use of ALL in which it cannot mean everyone without exception. I grant that 1 John 2:2 could mean ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION ... .but it could also mean ALL WITHOUT DISTINCTION .... now the person with insight will see this possibility and say, "well, what can I do to know which meaning of ALL is found in 1 John 2:2". You can't know. The solution is to seeks other explicit verses to give exact meaning to 1 John 2:2 keeping in mind God doesn't contradict Himself. A sample of such verses is found below.

There is no scripture that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

Ephesians 1:4b In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.
More often scripture uses synonyms for predestination like: Elect, chosen, appointed, “known by God”; granted AND foreknowledge
I know of 70+ such verses:

• Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ].
• Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will [salvation, while occurring in the temporal order, is a result of a pre-temporal choice of the Father] [Such a statement could not be made in truthfulness if the execution of His purpose depended upon a cooperation with others which was in their power to withhold.]
• Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
• Philippians 1:29-30 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him, since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have.
• Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed – not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence – continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
• Colossians 3:12b Put on then, as God's chosen ones

Be a Berean ... search and verify for yourself ... good luck