When did Satan appear in the bible ?

[Hendrik]

I am a 73-year-old former Calvinist fundamentalist and now admittedly an atheist, Following exposure to the YouTube videos provided by Dr. James Tabor and Professor Bart Ehrman of the University of North Carolina I have regained a thirst for studying the bible, One fact that has always puzzled me is the story of the interaction between Pharoah and Moses. It wasn't Satan who hardened Pharoah's heart, it was God. Satan was nowhere in sight. Could it be that Satan, a fallen angel, fell from heaven at a later date?

 

[hawkman]

Satan was nowhere in sight.

Just because you don't see Satan does not mean he is not there .

Why would Satan harden Pharaoh's heart if he could ?

Welcome to the forum !

 

[Hendrik]

Just because you don't see Satan does not mean he is not there .

Why would Satan harden Pharaoh's heart if he could ?

Welcome to the forum !

I do not recall God hardening anyone else's heart,

 

[hawkman]

I do not recall God hardening anyone else's heart,

Well I did a search and here is what I found .

Deuteronomy 2

30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

31 And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land.

Joshua 11

18 Joshua made war a long time with all those kings.

19 There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle.

20 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favor, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do not recall God hardening anyone else's heart,

Hi Hendrik and welcome to the forum.

Do you really believe God hardened Pharaoh's heart?
Let's look at some verses:

Exod.4​

1. [21] And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exod.7​

1. [3] And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
2. [13] And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
3. [14] And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.
4. [22] And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exod.8​

1. [15] But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
2. [19] Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
3. [32] And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Exod.9​

1. [7] And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
2. [12] And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
3. [34] And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
4. [35] And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.

Exod.10​

1. [1] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:
2. [20] But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
3. [27] But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exod.11​

1. [10] And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

Exod.14​

1. [4] And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. And they did so.
2. [8] And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
3. [17] And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

So who hardened Pharoah's heart?
Does God wish to harden person's hearts or does He wish to change stone hearts to hearts of flesh as expressed in
Ezekiel 36:26
26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
We can also look at
Romans 1:24-25
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

​

God gave them over.....
At some point God will abandon the person because his heart is waxed cold and like stone and cannot be changed.
A person must WANT to be changed...or he will just continue in his sinful ways until God gives up on Him and will no longer reveal Himself to that person.

See also
Romans 2:4-6
4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

 

[WIP]

Getting back on topic. To the original question, "When did Satan appear in the Bible?" I believe we can read about his first appearance in Genesis 3:1-6 when it tells how Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

At first it appears that we might be making assumptions as Scripture doesn't mention Satan by name but only speaks of a serpent, However, the relationship comes into more focus when we look at Revelation, chapter 12. Specifically verse 9 where it identifies the "serpent of old" (NKJV) as Satan and the Devil.

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Does this help?

 

[Hendrik]

Getting back on topic. To the original question, "When did Satan appear in the Bible?" I believe we can read about his first appearance in Genesis 3:1-6 when it tells how Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

At first it appears that we might be making assumptions as Scripture doesn't mention Satan by name but only speaks of a serpent, However, the relationship comes into more focus when we look at Revelation, chapter 12. Specifically verse 9 where it identifies the "serpent of old" (NKJV) as Satan and the Devil.

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Does this help?

That would place the fall of Satan before the original sin. That would lead to my next rhetorical question, was Satan created in the short time between the first day of creation and the fall of man?

 

[daninthelionsden]

That would place the fall of Satan before the original sin. That would lead to my next rhetorical question, was Satan created in the short time between the first day of creation and the fall of man?

I guess that would depend on if a day is as a thousand years..........

 

[Christ_empowered]

Satans functions seem to have shifted after Jesus. In Genesis and in job he is a created being who seems to have been given permission by God to act as an adversary. After Jesus it becomes clear that He has overcome the world ? and greater is He who is me than he who is in the world ?….

The victory was won at Calvary and everything seems to be leading up to final redemption of all creation.

God hardened pharaohs heart. Vessel of wrath…God will show mercy to whom He will show mercy and have compassion upon whom He will have compassion. Pharaohs hardened heart was part of God’s plan. I think ? that Christians who think ? God offers all unbelievers opportunity to repent and believe have difficulty with that part of scripture.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Satan may have shown himself as early as Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Satan may have been the darkness on the face of the deep. At Genesis 1:2, we have a water world. I have heard speculation that this could be a pre-Noah flood in which mankind was completely wiped out. Since Satan is a spiritual being, the water did not phase him. Again just speculation, but then we read this in 1John.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

So we know the darkness cannot be any part of God. But for sure Satan shows up in Genesis 3.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Br4nd0n]

That would place the fall of Satan before the original sin. That would lead to my next rhetorical question, was Satan created in the short time between the first day of creation and the fall of man?

Welcome to the forum hendrik

Isaiah 14 and ezekiel 28 are the two chapters that speak of satans fall before the creation of our universe. I personally believe satan and all the rest of the angels along with the spirit realm/heavens were created well before the creation of our physical universe.

 

[Hendrik]

Welcome to the forum hendrik

Isaiah 14 and ezekiel 28 are the two chapters that speak of satans fall before the creation of our universe. I personally believe satan and all the rest of the angels along with the spirit realm/heavens were created well before the creation of our physical universe.

Thank you all for the welcome. I read Isaiah 11 to learn that Satan was cast down to the earth. That would be after the creation of the universe I would think.
"How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!"

Perhaps this might refer to someone else besides Satan?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I am a 73-year-old former Calvinist fundamentalist and now admittedly an atheist, Following exposure to the YouTube videos provided by Dr. James Tabor and Professor Bart Ehrman of the University of North Carolina I have regained a thirst for studying the bible, One fact that has always puzzled me is the story of the interaction between Pharoah and Moses. It wasn't Satan who hardened Pharoah's heart, it was God. Satan was nowhere in sight. Could it be that Satan, a fallen angel, fell from heaven at a later date?

Greetings Hendrik, and welcome to the forum.

My take on this is that God hardened Pharaoh's heart specifically by allowing his magicians to duplicate many of the same supernatural wonders Moses was doing, such that Pharaoh was no longer inclined to believe he should let the Israelites go. And the works Pharaoh's magicians did were through the powers of witchcraft, which in effect means Satan was indeed present in the story just as the Lord was.

I accept the traditional orthodox view that Satan fell before the creation of Adam, though exactly when would be a mystery I doubt any of us would know this side of Heaven.

God bless, and welcome once again to our community.
Hidden In Him

 

[Br4nd0n]

Perhaps this might refer to someone else besides Satan?

Im not an expert on this, but i believe the two chapters i mentioned are prophesying about two different kings in ancient history and also the "power" behind them, which is the devil. So its has a double meaning from two separates occasions, the earthly and the spiritual. Its possible the falling to the physical earth you mention, might be referring to the human king/kings.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Welcome to the forum hendrik

Isaiah 14 and ezekiel 28 are the two chapters that speak of satans fall before the creation of our universe. I personally believe satan and all the rest of the angels along with the spirit realm/heavens were created well before the creation of our physical universe.

I believe he existed as Lucifer, but he was cast down to Earth so there had to be an Earth to be cast to.

 

[miamited]

Hi Hendrik

According to the Scriptures, Satan was first introduced to us in the garden. I'm not following why you think that because God hardened someone's heart at one point, that must mean that Satan didn't exist yet.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Lucifer a spirit sent of God to protect and guard the glory of creation from man's false pride opposing the will deceive mankind he was the creator, Look at my beauty and live why believe in a God as a creator not seen .

God cut off his feet. He could no longer walk with God as two walking or understanding one therefore using the glory of God as a thing to lust after 15 minutes of false fame

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I am a 73-year-old former Calvinist fundamentalist and now admittedly an atheist, Following exposure to the YouTube videos provided by Dr. James Tabor and Professor Bart Ehrman of the University of North Carolina I have regained a thirst for studying the bible, One fact that has always puzzled me is the story of the interaction between Pharoah and Moses. It wasn't Satan who hardened Pharoah's heart, it was God. Satan was nowhere in sight. Could it be that Satan, a fallen angel, fell from heaven at a later date?

Hello Hendrik and welcome.
We should consider how people become hardened, or firm in their stance when their pride is insulted. Example:

Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? Jn.9:34

God hardened Pharaohs' heart the same way. That man was worshipped as a god by the Egyptians and Moses wasn't going to tell him what to do. He probably laughed his head off at first, but even mockery can be a display of hardness.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Btw Hendrick,
It could be that as a Calvanist, you've never understood the gospel the entire Bible testifies to.
In any case, God isn't impressed with best selling scholars or doctors such as those you've mentioned.

 

[WIP]

Please focus your replies to the OP's questions so this discussion doesn't get sidetracked any more than it already has. Thank you.