Matthew 5:17-18

[Humblepie]

If the law wasn't abolished but fulfilled, then where is it now.
Murder?
Dietary?
Worshipping idols?
Lying?
Adultery?
Sabbath?
Passover?

What about the smallest Jot?

Is it just in the background waiting until heaven and earth pass away?
Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?


17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Jesus showed us that the Law is fulfilled in love.

Luke 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

The Law was never meant to be complicated.

The Law is still there and still relevant.
It's still not cool to lie, cheat, or steal, kill, or commit adultery.
Worshipping idols is still forbidden; as is taking God's name in vain.
Remembering the Sabbath is not what it was.
The apostles did not put that on gentile believers.
But it is good to have a day of rest each week.
Honoring your parents is still expected.

So, except for the Sabbath, the 10 Commandments are still considered the standard for good behavior in society.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[gordontimmy]

The law is replaced, by faith.

No ( law) of faith, means no law, no matter what law is kept. ( the law is not of faith.)


Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:


Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.



Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[gordontimmy]

If the law wasn't abolished but fulfilled, then where is it now.
Murder?
Dietary?
Worshipping idols?
Lying?
Adultery?
Sabbath?
Passover?

What about the smallest Jot?

Is it just in the background waiting until heaven and earth pass away?
Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?


17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

Israel ignorant of Gods righteousness, do not submit to the righteousness of god, which is Christ, who fitly is the end of the law for righteousness. ( as this is to EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES.)

The word of faith is preached, ( by the Lords apostles) to confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, to believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, is being saved, ( from the law that was not of faith and needed to be fulfilled) for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and confession is made unto salvation. ( Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes)

Fulfilling the scripture whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed. ( found naked/unclothed of our home from heaven)

The Lord is rich unto all that call upon Him, for whosoever shall call upon the NAME OF THE LORD, shall be saved...



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[gordontimmy]

The Law is still there and still relevant.
It's still not cool to lie, cheat, or steal, kill, or commit adultery.
Worshipping idols is still forbidden; as is taking God's name in vain.
Remembering the Sabbath is not what it was.
The apostles did not put that on gentile believers.
But it is good to have a day of rest each week.
Honoring your parents is still expected.

So, except for the Sabbath, the 10 Commandments are still considered the standard for good behavior in society.

The law cant show anyone how to not lie, cheat, steal, kill, adultery.

The testimony Christ gave, was faith, and faith was fulfilled by the law against us written, nailed into HIs cross. ( the law of faith is to believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead)

The law we read was weak, it is no longer the same law, no longer the same weakness.




Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[JLB]

If the law wasn't abolished but fulfilled, then where is it now.
Murder?
Dietary?
Worshipping idols?
Lying?
Adultery?
Sabbath?
Passover?

What about the smallest Jot?

Is it just in the background waiting until heaven and earth pass away?
Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?


17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

When reading this passage, we should ask the most obvious question that arises from the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

• I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Can we trust that He did what He said He came to do?

Can we trust that Jesus fulfilled the law?



Do you believe Jesus fulfilled the law?

 

[Humblepie]

Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?

 

[Humblepie]

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

A couple verses before just to add CONTEXT.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

HE DIDNT nail the LAW to the cross, he nailed the traditions of men to the cross. Big difference.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul is talking about the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
Not the law of moses.

This is why Peter warns us Paul is hard to understand.

 

[Humblepie]

Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?

 

[gordontimmy]

HE DIDNT nail the LAW to the cross, he nailed the traditions of men to the cross. Big difference.

Paul is talking about the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
Not the law of moses.

This is why Peter warns us Paul is hard to understand.

We are cursed in the law, the curse( works of the law are the curse) is gone Jesus was made a curse for us..


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


The law of Moses is the same curse of the works of the law, there cant be an other, and that law is to sin, is to death. ( it is not of faith, it is not of Spirit, it is damnation, what is not of faith is sin.)...



John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.




The law cant be of faith, because faith is the rising again of Christ from the dead, for us to not still be in our sins...




1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

 

[gordontimmy]

Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?


17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

All was accomplished, and all else is waxed old and ready to vanish away.

Heaven and earth do pass, the word of Jesus does not, the law is temporary, Jesus Christ is eternal.




Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[gordontimmy]

Now the new covenant is not every man teaching their neighbour, so the forum is finished.


How does God put His laws into our mind, and write them in our hearts..

What way is the law fulfilled by Jesus Christ. ( has to fulfil or there is no new covenant.)...


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:




We can talk about law or we can talk about faith. They are nothing to do with each other for a purpose, as one is the righteousness of man ( none/filthy rags) and one is the righteousness of God. ( the faith of His Son Jesus Christ.)

This is why we have so much testimony about faith, and NONE about law, as we HAD the testimony about law of Moses for Israel, they died in no faith. ( as all in Adam die)

We access the grace of God not through law ( that is OPPOSITE to how we access) but by faith through our Lord Jesus Christ who have us the atonement.

We receive the Spirit through hearing of the faith of Christ, to give us the love of God INTO OUR HEARTS. ( THIS IS HOW GOD PUTS HIS LAWS IN OUR MIND AND WRITES THEM IN OUR HEARTS.)

The law reveals our sin ( as we are cursed and break it without the Holy Spirit given us and the love of God shed into our hearts/by the faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.)

Judgment came upon all ( by the law) unto condemnation, now the free gift by the righteousness of Christ unto justification of life. ( WHICH IS NOT IN THE LAW OF MOSES.)

It is by the obedience of one that many were made righteous.

The law entered and the offence abounded. ( grace more abounded than law)

Grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by o Jesus Christ our Lord...



Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Humblepie]

All was accomplished, and all else is waxed old and ready to vanish away.

Heaven and earth do pass, the word of Jesus does not, the law is temporary, Jesus Christ is eternal.




Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

DID JESUS...........Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?

 

[Humblepie]

Now the new covenant is not every man teaching their neighbour, so the forum is finished.


How does God put His laws into our mind, and write them in our hearts..

What way is the law fulfilled by Jesus Christ. ( has to fulfil or there is no new covenant.)...


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:




We can talk about law or we can talk about faith. They are nothing to do with each other for a purpose, as one is the righteousness of man ( none/filthy rags) and one is the righteousness of God. ( the faith of His Son Jesus Christ.)

This is why we have so much testimony about faith, and NONE about law, as we HAD the testimony about law of Moses for Israel, they died in no faith. ( as all in Adam die)

We access the grace of God not through law ( that is OPPOSITE to how we access) but by faith through our Lord Jesus Christ who have us the atonement.

We receive the Spirit through hearing of the faith of Christ, to give us the love of God INTO OUR HEARTS. ( THIS IS HOW GOD PUTS HIS LAWS IN OUR MIND AND WRITES THEM IN OUR HEARTS.)

The law reveals our sin ( as we are cursed and break it without the Holy Spirit given us and the love of God shed into our hearts/by the faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.)

Judgment came upon all ( by the law) unto condemnation, now the free gift by the righteousness of Christ unto justification of life. ( WHICH IS NOT IN THE LAW OF MOSES.)

It is by the obedience of one that many were made righteous.

The law entered and the offence abounded. ( grace more abounded than law)

Grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by o Jesus Christ our Lord...



Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

When I read scripture in context now, I don't get the same ANTI-LAW interpretation that I used to before the truth was given to me.
You can quote every scripture in the Bible and quote them out of context to skew a belief to man's liking.
I read it all in context, and that context never changes. The law isn't imperfect, it is you and I that is imperfect.

The law never went anywhere.
You could never convince me to go back to the old way of belief when there was so much contradiction.

I'm at perfect peace.



Did Jesus teach that his Apostles and jews should follow the law before he died on the cross, before it was fulfilled?

 

[Humblepie]

Now the new covenant is not every man teaching their neighbour, so the forum is finished.


How does God put His laws into our mind, and write them in our hearts..

What way is the law fulfilled

Israel ignorant of Gods righteousness, do not submit to the righteousness of god, which is Christ, who fitly is the end of the law for righteousness. ( as this is to EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES.)

The word of faith is preached, ( by the Lords apostles) to confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, to believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, is being saved, ( from the law that was not of faith and needed to be fulfilled) for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and confession is made unto salvation. ( Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes)

Fulfilling the scripture whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed. ( found naked/unclothed of our home from heaven)

The Lord is rich unto all that call upon Him, for whosoever shall call upon the NAME OF THE LORD, shall be saved...



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
The law doesn't save anyone. I'm also saying the law is still valid today, not to save you but to define sin. SIN is the breaking of the law.

1 John 3
4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[skidootech]

Matt 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I DID NOT COME TO DESTROY BUT TO COMPLETE


Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Torah prophesied TILL YOCHANAN.


Matthew 5:17 is confused by language of the law and what law we are talking about. Yeshua did not come to destroy the law (torah) and the prophets but to fulfill or complete them. But later we are told by Yeshua that the law and the prophets prophesied until john the Baptist. So what law was completed ?


The confusion comes from not understanding the law, the law is essentially the ten commandments these are what we are to follow till the end and they will never fulfilled or completed, until the earth passes away and we are all in the kingdom.


The law that was fulfilled is the law of sacrifice for sin in other words the sacrifice in the temple is abolished by his unique self sacrifice (Heb 9:26, 10:16-18), there is no longer an animal sacrifice for sin.


The only law we are required to follow is the ten commandments these are the laws that will never pass.


Matt 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (ESV2011)

Matt 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of THESE COMMANDMENTS and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (ESV2011)

As Yeshua says in Matthew 5:19 whoever relaxes or breaks these Commandments (the ten commandments) will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.


This verse itself explains it all the law of sacrifice is completed but however does the commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
The Law was never meant to save a person.
Nobody can keep the Law 100% of the time.
We all fail and fall short. Rom. 3:23
The Law was meant to provide proof that a person needs saving beyond the Law.
Paul tells us:

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

So it still took faith (belief in God) to be saved.
So Jesus did not come to change the Law.
He also did not bring the concept of faith as a new way to be saved.
Abraham lived by faith in the Messiah to come.
So Ephesians 2:8-9 would have been applicable to Abraham as well.

Jesus did put a face with the name.
So that makes God more personal.
Belief in Jesus is equal to belief in God.
And that is all that is required for salvation.
The good news is that God gives us the faith to believe.
All that is required of us, is to receive God's gift.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[LovethroughDove]

The law is condemning people still. (Without Christ)

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 7:10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

This part of scripture is explaining how the law brings to light that there is sin living in us. Like when you are told, "don't do that" and some kind of sin will pop up within yourself when you have heard the law. Without the Spirit guiding you in your holiness walk.......you will constantly be questioning if you are doing it correctly.

How do we know we know we have the Spirit?

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

We are walking like Christ, even unto the cross.

Romans 8:9-11 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of your sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit , who lives in you.

Jesus himself has given the perfect blueprint in walking in holiness and through his Spirit we keep the law.