Bible Study The Moral and Immoral Both Alienated from God

Dave...

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"The Moral and Immoral Both Alienated from God​


Both moral and immoral individuals are alienated from God and are offensive to Him. This may be counterintuitive, but moral people may be lost due to their "goodness." Why? It is often the case that goodness keeps people from God. In fact, many people avoid sin and Jesus in an attempt to become their own saviors, justifying themselves. However, the gospel is not about moralism or relativism and is equally offensive to both the moral and the irreligious. Christ calls us to repent of both our good and bad works, for we have no righteousness of our own.

Jesus disapproved of people who trusted in their own morality, as shown by His statement, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains" (John 9:41). Those who believe that God will accept them based on their goodness only understand part of the truth. Although God loves what is good, He also loves the truth. Therefore, we must confess that, in light of God's holy law, we are not good and have woefully failed to do what is pleasing to God, replacing Him with worthless self-pleasing idol substitutes, and deserve punishment for it. Those who think they have done enough to please God have not understood the seriousness of their condition. John Calvin once said, "Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty." In light of God's holiness, all individuals, even the best of us, would become undone. This was even the case with the holiest saints of the Bible, who fell at God's feet as though dead when He revealed Himself to them. God created us to enjoy and glorify Him, but humans voluntarily rebelled against Him, falling into the bondage of the self-centeredness of sin, and cannot help themselves out of it.

For clarification, no one would dare to reason that we should be content to be immoral because we cannot trust in morality. Those who are regenerated by the Spirit of God will want to obey God, and His commands are not burdensome because such persons have been born of God (1 John 5:1-4). We obey because we are saved, not in order to be saved. To those who come to faith in Jesus by the quickening grace of the Spirit (John 6:63), the commands taste like honey, as we are no longer slaves but children. As Matthew Henry once said, "When the Law of God is written on our hearts, our duty will be our delight."

A Christian is not only someone who, by the grace of God, has repented of their immorality, but, even more importantly, has repented of their morality. The more self-righteous one is, the worse it is for them. Our own merits are of no value for salvation and will damn us. Whoever relies on their own goodness for salvation will suffer complete ruin."

 
Who is the "us" , Christians ?

I think he's speaking of a general call, considering the context. Though it would also seem to fit with those who are elect, but have not submitted to the call of the Gospel yet.

Dave
 
All this from the main post seems to be assuming that "morality" means "human-based/made/centered morality". Not Biblical morality.

God is the One Who says whats right and wrong.
 
Though it would also seem to fit with those who are elect, but have not submitted to the call of the Gospel yet.
So they have not made a choice yet .
 
Hi Hawk

"Christ calls us to repent of both our good and bad works, for we have no righteousness of our own."

It's a general statement. I believe that the context explains the statement. It's about trusting in our own morality, or our own works for salvation. This is part of the Gospel message. Those who trust in their own works are not saved. This is Saul before he became Paul (Philippians 3:4-9). This is all the scribes and pharisees Jesus spoke to and about before the cross. They thought that they were saved, but they weren't. Did they make a choice yet, yes, but they made the wrong one. The righteousness of God for salvation is the Gospel message. It's the only way we can be saved. So yes, we must repent of trusting in our own morality as much as our own sin, because in God's eyes, it's all the same.


Dave
 
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All this from the main post seems to be assuming that "morality" means "human-based/made/centered morality". Not Biblical morality.

God is the One Who says whats right and wrong.

Hey KV

What do you trust in for salvation?

Dave
 
Hi Hawk

"Christ calls us to repent of both our good and bad works, for we have no righteousness of our own."

It's a general statement. I believe that the context explains the statement. It's about trusting in our own morality, or our own works for salvation. This is part of the Gospel message. Those who trust in their own works are not saved. This is Saul before he became Paul (Philippians 3:4-9). This is all the scribes and pharisees Jesus spoke to and about before the cross. They thought that they were saved, but they weren't. Did they make a choice yet, yes, but they made the wrong one. The righteousness of God for salvation is the Gospel message. It's the only way we can be saved. So yes, we must repent of trusting in our own morality as much as our own sin, because in God's eyes, it's all the same.


Dave
If you are a Christian you should repent of your good works ? ? ! ?
 
If you are a Christian you should repent of your good works ? ? ! ?


Hi Hawk

From trusting in themselves , yes. Our works are a gift from God, not a merit from our flesh. Paul makes that very clear in Galatians.

From the OP, Here is another way of saying it.

Luke 18:9-14 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Paul puts an exclamation point on that thought here.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

If we trust in our own righteousness, even in part, we are not trusting in His righteousness.

Dave
 
I have a question for you Hawk. Is the Bible written for believers or unbelievers?

Dave
 
Is the Bible written for believers or unbelievers?
I'm not a hawk, I'm a tank (/s)
KV-44M2 trong 2023 | Xe tăng


but I'll answer.

It is written so that anyone can come to the Truth and have a Relationship with God. In a way, it's written for all in these times.
 
Two Questions for anyone in this thread .

I am a Christian and I help with the vacation Bible School for the children .

Was this a good work ?

Should I repent of helping the children at church ?
 
Two Questions for anyone in this thread .

I am a Christian and I help with the vacation Bible School for the children .

Was this a good work ?

Should I repent of helping the children at church ?
Hawk---- If you think that doing this good work is making you more acceptable with God then you should repent of your "motivation" for helping the children. Don't repent of helping them---by no means no----but repent of a motivation to help that stems from thinking that doing good is earning points with God. On Judgment day we will be judged far more by our "motives" for having done things than for the actual things themselves.
 
Hawk---- If you think that doing this good work is making you more acceptable with God then you should repent of your "motivation" for helping the children.
Being more acceptable to God would be an impossibility IMO . Your are born again or you are not born again . Degrees are not there . But I will say something about what you said below .

Don't repent of helping them---by no means no----but repent of a motivation to help that stems from thinking that doing good is earning points with God.
Give me your thoughts on laying up treasure in heaven . Fish153 , how are you laying up treasure in heaven ?

19Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

It is with joyful heart I serve God the work I do is to God's glory not mine ! I seldom think about the laying up of treasure in heaven , even yet that is what we are told will happen .

How can we store up treasures in heaven?
 
For clarification, no one would dare to reason that we should be content to be immoral because we cannot trust in morality. Those who are regenerated by the Spirit of God will want to obey God, and His commands are not burdensome because such persons have been born of God (1 John 5:1-4). We obey because we are saved, not in order to be saved. To those who come to faith in Jesus by the quickening grace of the Spirit (John 6:63), the commands taste like honey, as we are no longer slaves but children. As Matthew Henry once said, "When the Law of God is written on our hearts, our duty will be our delight."

A Christian is not only someone who, by the grace of God, has repented of their immorality, but, even more importantly, has repented of their morality. The more self-righteous one is, the worse it is for them. Our own merits are of no value for salvation and will damn us. Whoever relies on their own goodness for salvation will suffer complete ruin."


For clarification, the quote above is the end from the OP, so I understand if someone glanced over it. but please, this is not about Christians and good works. Those who trust in their own good works are not Christians.

The parable in Luke is saying the same thing. The tax collector repented of his sin and went away justified. The Pharisee did not repent. Of what did he need to repent of? In his eyes, he noted all his good works, which, in God's eyes, was all sin. So each needed to repent of their sin, one was the tax collector, poor in spirit, and justified. The other was the Pharisee, and was self righteous, and not justified. The good works that he needed to repent of was actually sin. From the flesh, not the Spirit.

This is the tone of the OP, that the good works of the one who trusts in themselves are self righteous works. I though it was clear, but maybe it wasn't.

Dave
 
I have a question for you Hawk. Is the Bible written for believers or unbelievers?

Dave
Certainly for both .
This is the tone of the OP, that the good works of the one who trusts in themselves are self righteous works. I though it was clear, but maybe it wasn't.
I am sorry if I brought confusion to your post , not my intention at all . We are on the same page with our understanding best I can tell .

Who wrote the commentary you posted in the OP , I saw no writer's credit at the link for the segment in the OP ?
 
Who wrote the commentary you posted in the OP , I saw no writer's credit at the link for the segment in the OP ?

Glad we are on the same page. :cool At first, I thought that the article may have been anonymous, which is what drew me to it. It said John Hendryx at the bottom, but was dated 2013, which didn't seem right, because I had always thought that John Hendryx was an older theologian from back in the days of Spurgeon. Apparently the founder of Monergism.com also goes by the same name. Are they the same person? I don't know. I just chalked it up as anonymous. Good thing you asked, or I would have never have known.


Dave
 
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