Bible Study The Church At Corinth: Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

Hopeful, how are they at war with one another when they are not in the same place as you seem to suggest. In Romans 7:18, Paul states, "I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh." He wasn't talking about the flesh of some undisclosed person,
He was in the midst of his recollections of his preconversion life in the "flesh".
Rom 7:5 says "we" are no longer in the "flesh".
he was talking about his own flesh,
Yes, but from a preconversion perspective.
and throughout the teaching in Romans. His own flesh was warring against his own spirit, leading him to eventually say, "Oh wretched man that I am. Who will save me from the body of this death?"
That preconversion plaint was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
That was the end of the "flesh" he so abhorred in his Rom 7's narrative from his past.
How are they at war with one another if the two are never meeting anywhere, because he is only discussing unsaved people?
They are not at war with one another.
The devil will not stop using memories of past "fleshly" event to entice the converted back into darkness/worldly oriented mindsets, just because we were converted.
But those whose "flesh" has been crucified, with its affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), will by the grace of God resist every temptation.
 
No, he isn't.
He is stating that those in the Spirit cannot do the things of the flesh.
And that those in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit.
He made the statement to illustrate that those in the Spirit will not commit works of the flesh.
They cannot !

If your premise is correct, then why does Paul reiterate in Ephesians 4 that those who are sealed in the Spirit can still grieve the Holy Spirit because of the works of their flesh?
Ephesians 4:29-31
29) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30; And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
 
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I walk in the Spirit, so the wants I once wanted of the flesh, are impossible to do.
you do this 24/7?
No, he isn't.
He is stating that those in the Spirit cannot do the things of the flesh.
And that those in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit.
Actually he is saying WHEN we are in the flesh, can not do things we want (in the spirit) and WHEN we are in the spirit, we can not do what we do nt want to do (things of the flesh)
He made the statement to illustrate that those in the Spirit will not commit works of the flesh.
They cannot !
Yes, WHEN we are in the spirit.

this is not a 24/78 thing that happens.. No one is sinless.. If we claim we have no sin, as John said, we are decieved.
The Holy Spirit will never dwell in a polluted temple.
Yet he does it every day. No one is perfect. only one
Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the "flesh". (Gal 5:16)
Amen..
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Yes we have, But we still have the flesh so have to be warned. No need to warn us if we can not fall back
Choose one or the other, because they are not interchangeable.
 
Why not ?
Not everyone who reads his letters is a Christian, so everything written can be used to help those "on the fence" to measure the cost of their conversion.
Paul is talking to believers, you and me, Not to those who are not believers. (in this context) non believers do not struggle with the flesh and spirit. their spirit is dead.
By seeing what is going to be expected of them, potential converts will be under no illusion that they can continue in their old ways.
Is this a requirement for salvation? to make ourselves clean. straighten up and fly right as my Dad used to say?
 
Paul's Romans 7 narrative was about his prior life; pre-conversion, still in the "flesh", and trying, unsuccessfully, to please God by Law keeping.
this is in error. Paul spoke in present tens. not in past tense. Study the passage please.

The law is spiritual But I AM carnal (present tense)

For what I am doing, I do not understand. (all present tense)

For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. (again all present tense.)
 
He was in the midst of his recollections of his preconversion life in the "flesh".
Rom 7:5 says "we" are no longer in the "flesh".

Yes, but from a preconversion perspective.

That preconversion plaint was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
That was the end of the "flesh" he so abhorred in his Rom 7's narrative from his past.

They are not at war with one another.
The devil will not stop using memories of past "fleshly" event to entice the converted back into darkness/worldly oriented mindsets, just because we were converted.
But those whose "flesh" has been crucified, with its affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), will by the grace of God resist every temptation.
No

Paul is warning us that their continues to be a war. and we have to acknowledge that and then Praise God.
 
They are not at war with one another.

Hopeful, for starters, this runs contrary to statements Paul makes elsewhere. In Galatians 5:17, we have γὰρ σὰρξ ἐπιθυμεῖ κατὰ τοῦ πνεύματος, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα κατὰ τῆς σαρκός. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." ἐπιθυμεῖ is in present indicative active tense, not past tense, so as Eternally Grateful told you, your tenses are wrong.
He was in the midst of his recollections of his preconversion life in the "flesh".
Yes, but from a preconversion perspective.
That preconversion plaint was answered in Rom 6:6

How can he be talking about his preconversion state when the Spirit wasn't in him yet? In his preconversion state he was a murderer of Christians, and sought to have them executed.
 
I'm always amazed when I read someone stating that they don't sin any more. First, it's not the least bit biblical (read 1 John 1:8-10). Secondly, this means that these people are "judging themselves" to be righteous. In 1 Corinthians 4 Paul says he doesn't judge himself. He says even his own clean conscience isn't enough for him to base anything upon. Paul says he leaves all judgment with the Lord. These people have a complete misunderstanding of Romans 6-8. If they are not struggling with the flesh in some manner I start to believe they most likely are not Christians. Because all Christians have struggles, and must daily take up our cross and "reckon ourselves to be dead onto sin, but alive onto God through Jesus Christ". But it is a daily reckoning. We NEVER come to a place where we can say that we do not sin any more. If we believe that we are completely deceived.
 
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Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

Let’s take a look at the church at Corinth. Corinth was one of the most important trade cities in the Roman Empire. It was a city of diversity, with people from various cultures, languages, and religions. Corinth was known throughout the ancient world as a city of wealth and opulence. It was a main trading port that drew all kinds of trade and commerce and was also known for its lack of moral compass. The city itself, being dedicated to Aphrodite, the goddess of sex, and home to many other gods dotting the landscape.

Paul began preaching the gospel in this city around 50 AD. After some time, Paul establishes a Christian community (church) consisting of Jews and gentiles from diverse socio-economic backgrounds. Their commonality was based on faith in the message of the cross through Jesus Christ. (As our churches are today.)

Paul spent 18 months in the city before he departed, but he heard news of divisions, moral issues, and factions that he needed to address. Paul writes letters to the Christian community in Corinth, offering some spiritual guidance and support for this fledgling church. He uses the imagery of the body and its parts being able to fit together for the good of all its members.

He tackles the moral dilemma that was prevalent in the church, which included sexual sin that even the pagans living around them considered unacceptable behavior. Paul clarifies to the church at Corinth that their bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, set apart for God. He reminds them to flee from sexual immorality as their bodies have been bought with a price, even the blood of Jesus, and they should glorify God with their bodies. He instigates disciplinary strategies as a means for bringing members to a place of repentance for their sinful ways and restoration back into the body of Christ. He instructs the church at Corinth to take decisive action against those living carnal lifestyles. He encourages them to seek a life that honors God as a testimony of new creations in Christ.

Although the community at Corith was established by Paul, founded on the message of the cross, and it's members had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, some were still living carnally. Salvation is a free gift, but sanctification is a walk, a work in progress, and a journey with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that new creations in Christ may grow in their faith and become more like God and less like the world they came from. Sanctification also requires discipline and repentance, particularly as Spirit battles against the carnal nature that desires to gain control, since the carnal nature (flesh/old man) does not want to be crucified (even though Christ had already done this at the cross (Romans 6:5-7)

Once a believer genuinely repented of their sins in the early churches, they were forgiven by God, cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and eventually restored back into the body, which is the church.

Our relationship with him is not autonomous; it is a personal, intimate, one-on-one relationship with the author and perfecter of our faith.

1 John 1:9 says
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world Glory!

Angelina

Written 15/02/2025

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Yes, we struggle with sin, iniquities, generational curses, ungodly soul ties as well as unforgiveness.

As we grow in Christ, we learn more and more, how to sow to the Spirit, and walk according to the Spirit, so that we don’t live our lives walking according to the lustful cravings of our flesh.

Thank goodness we can confess our sins and be forgiven and cleansed.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

Notice that the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin is for those who walk in the light.

IOW’s walking in the light doesn’t mean we are walking in sinless perfection.



JLB
 
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If your premise is correct, then why does Paul reiterate in Ephesians 4 that those who are sealed in the Spirit can still grieve the Holy Spirit because of the works of their flesh?
Ephesians 4:29-31
29) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30; And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
You misread it.
He is saying NOT to let it happen.
He then adds a few more things NOT to let happen.
If you are a Christian, act like a Christian !
 
You have misread it, brother. He is saying that you can grieve the Holy Spirit because of your ungodly ways.
 
you do this 24/7?
Yes, to the glory of God.
Actually he is saying WHEN we are in the flesh, can not do things we want (in the spirit) and WHEN we are in the spirit, we can not do what we do nt want to do (things of the flesh)
But we are no longer in the flesh, so your point is moot.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
My "flesh" was destroyed, at its baptism into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6)
Yes, WHEN we are in the spirit.
That is all the time, for those walking in Christ.
this is not a 24/78 thing that happens.. No one is sinless..
We disagree on that.
If we claim we have no sin, as John said, we are decieved.
I John 1:6, 8, and 10, are addressing those who walk in darkness.
They do not address those walking in the light.
Yet he does it every day. No one is perfect. only one
Were that the case, then Jesus died in vain.
By His death, burial, and resurrection, men can be reborn of God's seed: and God's seed cannot bear liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers.
So walk in the Spirit, and you won't need to worry about what happens in the "flesh" anymore !
Yes we have, But we still have the flesh so have to be warned. No need to warn us if we can not fall back
Don't equate skin and bones (flesh) with the worldly oriented mind ("flesh") that was destroyed at baptism into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6)
They are not the same thing.
 
Paul is talking to believers, you and me, Not to those who are not believers. (in this context) non believers do not struggle with the flesh and spirit. their spirit is dead.
I wasn't a believer the first hundred times I read it.
How many unbelievers were weeded out of the church at Corinth ?
At least a few, right ?
Is this a requirement for salvation? to make ourselves clean. straighten up and fly right as my Dad used to say?
Absolutely.
Paul writes..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)
And also..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)

Those not "flying right" will not be awarded eternal life with Christ.
 
this is in error. Paul spoke in present tens. not in past tense. Study the passage please.

The law is spiritual But I AM carnal (present tense)

For what I am doing, I do not understand. (all present tense)

For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. (again all present tense.)
They are all in the historical-present tense. (Or, present-narrative tense)
He is speaking from the perspective of still being under the Law, in the "flesh", and trying unsuccessfully to please God...the past.
The fact that his plaints in Rom 7:23,24 are answered, shows his Rom 7 plaints were from the past, and have been answered.
 
Hopeful, for starters, this runs contrary to statements Paul makes elsewhere. In Galatians 5:17, we have γὰρ σὰρξ ἐπιθυμεῖ κατὰ τοῦ πνεύματος, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα κατὰ τῆς σαρκός. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." ἐπιθυμεῖ is in present indicative active tense, not past tense, so as Eternally Grateful told you, your tenses are wrong.
I walk in the Spirit, so the things of the "flesh" are impossible for me to do.
My lusts were crucified with the flesh, and its vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
No lusts...no war !
How can he be talking about his preconversion state when the Spirit wasn't in him yet?
The Spirit wasn't in him yet. It was his past, pre-conversion, life in the "flesh".
In his preconversion state he was a murderer of Christians, and sought to have them executed.
Exactly.
Rom 7 is a sort of fork in the road point in Paul's life.
Rom 7 is an over-view of his past in the "flesh", and trying unsuccessfully to please God with Law keeping.
And at the end of Rom 7, he summarizes things.
He has chosen to serve God with his mind, as his flesh was incapable of it.
Now, he walks in and after the Spirit.
 
He admonishes: "DON'T DO IT".
You should practice what you preach, brother. BTW, it is not an admonishment. This is good biblical exegesis. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
 
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Anyone saying there is sin in Christ, is not of God.
There is no sin in Christ, brother. There is sin in the souls of mankind that needs to be dealt with and will be dealt with through the power of the Holy Spirit working against their soulish, fleshly desires...Glory!
 
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