What is 'faith alone'?

[Carry_Your_Name]

Have you done this 100% perfect since birth?

if you have. and hopefully every other command.

You have earned your way to heaven, You do not need the cross.

If you have not. You must trust in Jesus, there is nothing you can do (Jesus point)

Look man, the raison d'etre of this whole debate is the conflation of salvation and blessing. Salvation doesn't require work, blessings most definitely does, whether you believe Deut. 28 is only for Israel or not.

 

[donadams]

"not of yourselves;"

"it is the gift of God,"

"not of works"

Ephesians 2:8-9 or by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

The theological term is 'sola fide'

peace

who can explain these verses in light of the doctrine of "faith alone"?

matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

1 tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

thks

 

[Free]

who can explain these verses in light of the doctrine of "faith alone"?

matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

1 tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

thks

Again, first understand what is meant by "faith alone," which has been explained numerous times. Next, understand the biblical definitions of justification, sanctification, and glorification. Then scripture can be addressed.

 

[Corinth77777]

..

Lets try again.

If your doing those things to get saved, Stay saved or keep from losing salvation.

Salvation=life
Yes I believe we do things to stay saved.

Ephesians 2:8's "saved" is about being brought from death to life, quickened together with Christ.

There is nothing we do without God..Yet also nothing is going to be done without Him.



So what is legalism:" A system where religious practices and rules are used as a way to earn God's favor or achieve spiritual growth, rather than as a means of connecting with God and breaking the power of sin. " Willard

Your using legalism, or trying to be saved by works.

If your doing them out of love and gratitude to God. well then you are not trying to earn salvation. You will instead produce fruit

Shouldn't we let God decide..maybe its not love or gratitude maybe its because He is the source of life. It's God who knows where people are with the knowledge they have; And He is able to make them stand.

so you do them to keep salvation? I ask this because of point E.. because physical death will not be stopped because we do good works.

I try to keep His teaching because there are blessings in him. In him He protects those who walk in His ways. In Him his will is done through me for others. In him I have purpose.

However another might see it, I see salvation as ungoing and not just a one time event. For Abraham heeded to the word of God to get out of the land of his fathers which was paganism. Abraham believed God for a son when It seem likely He would not have an heir. Abraham believed God when he was told to offer up his son. Yet, God didn't allow Abraham to slay him.

And I believe God is my life's source so I want to stay under his wings; In his teachings, that He has given us in order for God to use me.

Was not Abraham Justified before God more than once?

But for most of this conversation under the title I believe 3 passages may have a bearing on some traditional doctrines: The major one is Galatians 2:16 in the KJV version. And it reads:

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16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

There is so much in this passage that may help correct traditional ideals.

They believed in Jesus-> Believed what?
Answer- Who He is?

This to me sounds like the system that governs; for they believed in order that they might be justified by the faith of Jesus and not by works of the law.

Everything that is created is created through the son.

There are a couple of ways to view the meaning "faith of Jesus" but they all lead to God.
Upholding all things by the word of his power when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

One way to view "faith of Jesus" is the faithfulness of Jesus. Meaning that you can go to the king for forgiveness. (The system that now governs forever)

Question: if God is in the light and you backslide do you still maintain a status of Justification..or would you need to be made right with God again?????

The next way to view " faith of Jesus" is His belief that God is in control of everything. Therefore the faith of Jesus is God is in control. And look how Abraham mimics this in his actions written above.

So the other 2 scriptures that may be contemplated on to affirm or disprove previous held traditional ideals are:

Galatians 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision availeth any thing; but faith which worketh by love."

&

James 2:26"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

 
So to sum it up the type of faith Jesus had is where his active spirit and actions of the body were one.

And this is the way we also destroy the works of the devil and overcome the world.

Our bodies must also be reconciled for our own consciousness before God.

For you do not know what you have until you walk in it.....

Hence For some the meaning of faith alone...is Jesus's Faithfulness.

But in that sense it's like Noah's ark. The ark was reliable::Faithful...But if no one got in the ark it would not save anyone.
But God also provided the Ark and without God's Provisions there would be no ark in the Same way He sent His son.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

The work of God for us to do is believe.

Are you saying God obeys the Gospel for us?

its the work of God that WE BELIEVE

who is doing the believing?

If He did that then everyone would be saved, because His intention is for the world to be saved.

do you even try to listen. or just look for key words and assume you understand?

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

• and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Yes,

that's why it is unbelief that condemns..

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we repent.

no. we confess BECASUSE we repented.

Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we are saved.

You will never confess jesus unless you repent. and no. we are saved by grace through faith

Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.

The tax collector was saved, he did nto confess Jesus as lord. He cried out for his mercy

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confess..

It does not say confess Jesus is lord.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

That's not legalism. Don't spam the label.

its legalism if you are obeying to be saved

No, just commandments five to nine - "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother," plus "love your neighbor as yourself." "You shall have no other gods before me" was definitely not there, see Matt. 19:18, The young ruler asked "which ones?" Jesus specifically named these.

He did not obey the 1st command.. Jesus tried to get him to admit that, he could not. because he loved money more than God

No it's not, it's about blessings and curses.

Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word.

The man did not keep this, hence he is cursed..

If he did not recieve Christ being cursed in his place. he is lost.

Again it's about blessings and curses, not salvation. Salvation should not be treated as a ticket to heaven or God's insurance policy, that's false teaching.

lol.. So what is salvation? can we get to heaven without being saved?

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Don't be preachy and condescending like this. Judge not, lest you be judged.

yet you judged me

I asked you a question. I guess since you did not answer my question.. You do not know?

 

[Eternally-grateful]

If we do sin, we can go to our Lord humbling ourselves and confess our sin, and be cleansed.

We can also learn why we sinned and become stronger in our walk with Him as we learn to walk in the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Walking according to the Spirit doesn’t come by accident, but it is an intentional effort that comes gradually as we “sow” to the Spirit.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

There are two distinct lifestyles that the born again Christian can live;

Walking according to the Spirit

Walking according to the flesh.

Walking according to the Spirit is where we walk in the the truth, and thereby practice righteousness.

Walking according to the flesh, is a lifestyle where we are obeying the sinful desires of our flesh; thereby practicing the works of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice that Paul warned them in the past and was warning them now, those who choose to walk according to the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The solution -

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

if you want to get to heaven by works. that is what is required.

You better be perfect to earn your right to heaven

or recieve Gods grace gift.

there is no other way to heaven ..

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Look man, the raison d'etre of this whole debate is the conflation of salvation and blessing. Salvation doesn't require work, blessings most definitely does, whether you believe Deut. 28 is only for Israel or not.

Look

my argument is against salvation by works, which is being preached

so why do you keep attacking me as if I do not know what I am talking about.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

..


Salvation=life

yes. if we are born again, we have Gods promise we will never perish, and our life will be forever 9eternal life)

Yes I believe we do things to stay saved.

what could you possibly do to keep yourself saved. since salvation is by grace?

Ephesians 2:8's "saved" is about being brought from death to life, quickened together with Christ.

Yes..

There is nothing we do without God..Yet also nothing is going to be done without Him.

agree

So what is legalism:" A system where religious practices and rules are used as a way to earn God's favor or achieve spiritual growth, rather than as a means of connecting with God and breaking the power of sin. " Willard

legalism is a means of earning Gods favor by adding works to grace as a means of earning salvation.

earning salvation can be seen a few ways

I must do a work to get salvation (examples are circumcision in pauls day, or water baptism today)

I must work to maintain salvation (Obey Gods commands, do religious works such as going to church, tithing, taking communion. serving etc etc)

I must work to keep from losing salvation (how good is good enough is all i can think of.. I see no other explaination for this)

Shouldn't we let God decide.

He did, its in his word

.maybe its not love or gratitude maybe its because He is the source of life. It's God who knows where people are with the knowledge they have; And He is able to make them stand.

Thats how we have the peace that surpasses understanding, It is not we who keep ourselves (by works) it is him who keeps us.

I try to keep His teaching because there are blessings in him. In him He protects those who walk in His ways. In Him his will is done through me for others. In him I have purpose.

I feel the same way. Amen

However another might see it, I see salvation as ungoing and not just a one time event.

That would be in my view a fatal error. a different gospel.

For Abraham heeded to the word of God to get out of the land of his fathers which was paganism. Abraham believed God for a son when It seem likely He would not have an heir. Abraham believed God when he was told to offer up his son. Yet, God didn't allow Abraham to slay him.

Abraham believed God and before abraham did one work, God credit to him righteousness (justification)

Abraham spent his life with his faith growing, But also showing laps in his faith (Adulatory, Saying his wife was his sister etc etc) but we know decades after he was saved, his faith grew so deep. he was willing to offer his son, KNOWING or ASSURED God would raise him from the dead (he trust in Gods promise his son would be the heir)

And I believe God is my life's source so I want to stay under his wings; In his teachings, that He has given us in order for God to use me.

Amen, Me also@!!!

Was not Abraham Justified before God more than once?

Yes. But he was only saved once, In gen 15. when he believed God and it was credited to him as righteouusness (he was seen as righteous, or another term, justified)

But for most of this conversation under the title I believe 3 passages may have a bearing on some traditional doctrines: The major one is Galatians 2:16 in the KJV version. And it reads:
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

the faith of Jesus did not save me, this would be a poor translation.

Granted, His faith led him to endure the cross.. and through this offered me salvation. But I must recieve his gift (john 1) he will not force it on me

There is so much in this passage that may help correct traditional ideals.

They believed in Jesus-> Believed what?
Answer- Who He is?

This to me sounds like the system that governs; for they believed in order that they might be justified by the faith of Jesus and not by works of the law.

Everything that is created is created through the son.

There are a couple of ways to view the meaning "faith of Jesus" but they all lead to God.
Upholding all things by the word of his power when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

One way to view "faith of Jesus" is the faithfulness of Jesus. Meaning that you can go to the king for forgiveness. (The system that now governs forever)

Question: if God is in the light and you backslide do you still maintain a status of Justification..or would you need to be made right with God again?????

was the prodigal son still the son, or did his fathers DNA leave him?

The next way to view " faith of Jesus" is His belief that God is in control of everything. Therefore the faith of Jesus is God is in control. And look how Abraham mimics this in his actions written above.

So God controls who is saved and who is not? this is damaging to his reputation

Yes, Gods love works through us in faith in him

 

[donadams]

its the work of God that WE BELIEVE

who is doing the believing?

do you even try to listen. or just look for key words and assume you understand?

Yes,

that's why it is unbelief that condemns..

please explain

the parable of the sower?

all 4 had faith but only one bear fruit unto salvation?

 

[donadams]

its the work of God that WE BELIEVE

who is doing the believing?

do you even try to listen. or just look for key words and assume you understand?

Yes,

that's why it is unbelief that condemns..

works are the life of faith?

thks

 

[Eternally-grateful]

please explain

the parable of the sower?

all 4 had faith but only one bear fruit unto salvation?

only one had faith.

if you have faith. you do not return to your vomit, you were made into a new creature.

I would say they may have believed, but they did not have living faith. if they did, they would not have been so easily taken away

 

[Eternally-grateful]

works are the life of faith?

thks

not sure what this means

works are a byproduct of faith

if you trust someone, you tend to do what they ask (works)

it you do not trust someone, you tend to ignore what they ask (no works)

 

[donadams]

only one had faith.

if you have faith. you do not return to your vomit, you were made into a new creature.

I would say they may have believed, but they did not have living faith. if they did, they would not have been so easily taken away

where does scripture say "living faith"?

is one microscopic act of faith for one second make you saved?

are you saved the first moment you believe?

 

[donadams]

not sure what this means

works are a byproduct of faith

if you trust someone, you tend to do what they ask (works)

it you do not trust someone, you tend to ignore what they ask (no works)

james 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

james 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

james 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

james 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? No! not faith alone!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity avails nothing
three are eternal faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13

"faith alone"
is impossible!

thks

james 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

works are the life of faith!

 

[donadams]

not sure what this means

works are a byproduct of faith

if you trust someone, you tend to do what they ask (works)

it you do not trust someone, you tend to ignore what they ask (no works)

mk 16:16 faith AND baptism

not faith then baptism

 

[Free]

"faith alone"
is impossible!

Once again, this is a straw man of what is meant by faith alone. As I stated already, please first learn what faith alone actually means. Not a single person on these forums is saying that Christians don't need to do works. The entire point is that our works do not save us.

 

[donadams]

not sure what this means

works are a byproduct of faith

if you trust someone, you tend to do what they ask (works)

it you do not trust someone, you tend to ignore what they ask (no works)

can you explain these verses in light of the doctrine of "faith alone"?

matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

1 tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

thks