Word or Water

[Eternally-grateful]

Or, more rightly, repenting = being born of the flesh.

I was born in the flesh when my mother gave birth to me

Paul says the old covenant (the covenant of law) births sons "born according to the flesh", and "born by the flesh". Keeping the law is what it means to be "born by the flesh". It's unmistakable. That's what he says:

22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.

24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

28Now you,d brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh (through the covenant of law-vs. 24) persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now. Galatians 4:22-26,28-29

And that's what Jesus is telling Nicodemus. Being born by the flesh through the law is not good enough to see and enter into the kingdom.

30But what does the Scripture say? “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son (born by the flesh) will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”e

The son 'born of the flesh' through the effort of repentance and obedience to the law does not inherit the kingdom. You must also be born from above, by the Spirit.

see above

 

[for_his_glory]

Your trying to pit two passages together that are not related.

John 3 is Jesus telling us we need to be born again, Why we need born again, and how to be born again

Romans 8 is talking about what happens after we are saved.

If you look closer those two scriptures are speaking about the flesh and why we need to be Spiritually born again from above as the law had no saving provisions within the 613 laws.

 

[for_his_glory]

I was born in the flesh when my mother gave birth to me

see above

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was born in the flesh when my mother gave birth to me

see above

I think it goes without saying that you must first exist as a human being. That’s why I resist that argument. Unless “flesh is born of flesh” is Jesus is referring to being born a Jew and assailing the common notion among Jews that they were in line for the kingdom by virtue of being born Jewish. That argument has merit, but stumbles when you consider that most people in the kingdom of God are not natural Jews and are gentiles by birth.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think it goes without saying that you must first exist as a human being. That’s why I resist that argument. Unless “flesh is born of flesh” is Jesus is referring to being born a Jew and assailing the common notion among Jews that they were in line for the kingdom by virtue of being born Jewish. That argument has merit, but stumbles when you consider that most people in the kingdom of God are not natural Jews and are gentiles by birth.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

If you look closer those two scriptures are speaking about the flesh and why we need to be Spiritually born again from above as the law had no saving provisions within the 613 laws.

The law has nothing to do with John 3.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

this has nothign to do with John 3

 

[Eternally-grateful]

I think it goes without saying that you must first exist as a human being. That’s why I resist that argument. Unless “flesh is born of flesh” is Jesus is referring to being born a Jew and assailing the common notion among Jews that they were in line for the kingdom by virtue of being born Jewish. That argument has merit, but stumbles when you consider that most people in the kingdom of God are not natural Jews and are gentiles by birth.

I do not think Jesus had jew or non jew in mind

I thgink he stated a fact.

You must be born again (literally a second time

Everyone is born of flesh. there should be no argument here

so being born again would be being born of spirit

 

[for_his_glory]

The law has nothing to do with John 3.

Sorry you do not get the conversation as I can not make you see it, even though I have given you the scriptures about the law having no salvation provisions.

 

[donadams]

how about a third option?

Both!

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Rev 1:5 washed in His blood
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

thks

 

[for_his_glory]

how about a third option?

Both!

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Rev 1:5 washed in His blood
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

thks

Are you speaking about John the Baptist as he baptized in literal water as an outward appearance to others that one repented of their sin as preparing the way of the Lord, because Jesus had not yet came to John's water baptism. Remember what John said, "I must decrease and He increase". Jesus never baptized anyone in water for His baptism was for receiving the Holy Spirit.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
John 3:24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
John 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[donadams]

Are you speaking about John the Baptist as he baptized in literal water as an outward appearance to others that one repented of their sin as preparing the way of the Lord, because Jesus had not yet came to John's water baptism. Remember what John said, "I must decrease and He increase". Jesus never baptized anyone in water for His baptism was for receiving the Holy Spirit.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
John 3:24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
John 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

no not John's baptism of repentance only
In the christian sacrament of baptism, the laver of regeneration we have:

Our mind washed by faith
acts 8:37
our body washed in pure water
ex 36:25-27 heb 19:22
our soul wash by the spirit with grace acts 22:16 Jn 3:5 titus 3:5


acts 8:35-38

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

thks

 

[donadams]

1 and cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. ex 36:25-47 Jn 3:5 water & the spirit! titus 3:5

Acts 2:38 “… in the name of Jesus Christ …”
8:16 “… in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
10:48 “… in the name of Jesus Christ.”
19:5 “ … in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
22:16 “… calling on His name"

The laver of regeneration!

Holy sacrament of baptism, the new birth & born again unto the life grace!