[__ Science __ ] Is John Lennox Right About the Age of the Earth?

[Elijah7777]

A good number of years later I listened to Walter Martin talk about possible gaps in some of these genealogies

There are no GAPS, that is absurd. I have been recently doing a study of my family genealogy. We can trace both sides of my family back to the beginning of this country. There are people alive today that I am related to. We share a common ancestor. I have the documents that we can verify. If we had to skip a generation then there is NO way I would know how we were related. We have aunts and uncles, neices and nephews and cousins. But none of that matters. We need to go back a generation to our common ancestor or our matriarch and patriarch. Then we can say we have the same great, great, great Grandfather. In the case of the presidents they are all related to a common ancester in the last 9 generations. Of course we all share the some common ancestor somewhere along the way. The question is how recent in our family do we share a common ancestor.

I belong to a Pilgram church. If we were to skip generations, then how would we know our ancestors were pilgrims and not Puritans, or something more recent? Paul talks about Abraham and not everyone is a natural branch. The gentiles are wild branches that have been grafted in.

To go from Adam and Eve to Jesus and Mary is an amazing piece of work. I am doing good to do five generations. My mom went back to Ireland to trace our family but she was not able to find the records because they had been destroyed in a fire somewhere along the way. Of course in Heaven everyone knows who they are related to and who their common ancestors are.

 

[RandyK]

There are no GAPS, that is absurd.

No, it's not absurd. It isn't atypical for ancient or even modern genealogies to list the most important figures in the genealogy, omitting those who were unimportant, died young, or were dishonorable in some way.

I realize that some of the earliest biblical genealogies were more precise, but that doesn't mean they all were. The genealogy of Jesus was made into a memory device when it was ordered in categories of 14. (Matt 1.17). A grandson or great grandson can be listed as a "son of" somebody. For example, Jesus is the "Son of David," even though he is many generations removed.

 

[Free]

The Bible is literal first and symbolic second on many levels. We teach our Sunday School Students the literal Bible. Then, when they are old enough to go into the Sanctuary to hear the pastor preach they learn the symbolic Bible.

Define “literal.”

 

[Elijah7777]

Define “literal.”

Literally is an adverb that means in the exact sense and without exaggeration. It can be replaced with actually and really. Figuratively is an adverb that means metaphorically or not literally; in a way that involves using words or phrases with a meaning that is different from usual.

 

[RandyK]

Literally is an adverb that means in the exact sense and without exaggeration. It can be replaced with actually and really. Figuratively is an adverb that means metaphorically or not literally; in a way that involves using words or phrases with a meaning that is different from usual.

I think a metaphor can literally express truth. So there is the question: are the 6 days of Creation representative of 6 different phases of Creation, or are they literally 6 consecutive 24 hour days? I should think that we must assume it is true, no matter if Moses intended the days to be representative and figurative or 6 literal days.

There is a problem, incidentally, with seeing the 6 24 hour days in a literal sense, because days are not possible before the creation of the sun on the 4th day. Or, maybe I'm missing something?

My guess is that God is utilizing Man's frame of reference to explain a transcendent act that is literally "above time." Again, I don't know. I think the order of days is in fact significant even if the "days" are not 24 hours long.

 

[Elijah7777]

about maybe I'm missing something?

There is only one day and all the other days become a copy of the original. You do not even have a first day until you have a second day. As a carpenter I know that a copy can never be an exact copy of the original. There is always going to be some variation. So we establish a pattern that we make all of our copies from.

So there is the question: are the 6 days of Creation representative of 6 different phases of Creation, or are they literally 6 consecutive 24 hour days?

The people that give us our Bible say there can be up to 100 meanings for a scripture. They talk about an oral tradition that goes with the written word of God. The texts were preserved through oral tradition, manuscripts, and translations, including the Septuagint, an ancient Greek translation used by early Christians. Over time, scholars and religious leaders compiled and canonized the books, shaping the Old Testament as we know it today.

The Greek translation talks about Adams rib. But the original talks about the side of Adam. God made one to become two and then the two are joined back together to become one. The Hebrew word used is צֵלָע (tsela)**, which is often translated as "rib", but its broader meaning is "side"tsela) in Genesis 2:22 .... Some scholars argue that this suggests a deeper symbolism—rather than simply taking a single rib, God may have taken a portion of Adam’s side, emphasizing unity and equality between man and woman.

Every word in Genesis one would take a whole book to define. The first word: "Beginning" all the books in the world could not define or explain because God declares the end from the beginning. If we understood the first word, then we would understand all the words that follow.

 

[Elijah7777]

My guess is that God is utilizing Man's frame of reference to explain a transcendent act that is literally "above time."

We do not understand time from God's perspective. God can go forward and back in time. If we ask for healing for past events God does not just heal the memory. He goes back in time to bring about healing. God is infinite so we ask how does God create a finite world from infinity. We talk about the big crunch or contraction. I can not remember what word God uses.

One theory that science tends not to support is that the universe goes through cycles of contraction and expansion.

 

[Elijah7777]

are the 6 days of Creation representative of 6 different phases of Creation

Okay, this is the zinger. The events of the Bible all line up perfectly with what is known in Science, except for the timeline. Gerald Schroeder PhD from MIT, has resolved this issue. Each day in Genesis is half the length of the day before. That is the only way you can get science and the Bible to line up with each other. I have read his book, but he has a summary in an article on the internet.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[RandyK]

Okay, this is the zinger. The events of the Bible all line up perfectly with what is known in Science, except for the timeline. Gerald Schroeder PhD from MIT, has resolved this issue. Each day in Genesis is half the length of the day before. That is the only way you can get science and the Bible to line up with each other. I have read his book, but he has a summary in an article on the internet.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Well, yes--that's my point. The Days of Creation were never meant to be literal 24 hour days. But the Bible, as well as the Genesis account, was to be literally believed.

So there is a difference between believing literally what the Bible wrote and believing that everything the Bible was saying was meant to be taken literally. There were a number of symbolic visions in the Bible that were meant to be understood as symbols. This doesn't at all mean they weren't intended to be believed as written.

So in context the Days of Creation had to be unique days. We read in Zechariah of a unique "Day of the Lord." The Apostle John had his Revelation on a unique "Day of the Lord." That's because these "days" are transcendent, and intended, I believe, to be understood as such because they could not be understood in any other way.

We just accept, on faith, that God in His own thinking presented these acts of Creation as if by a human Week, each day presenting a new category of Creation. How "lined up" they were I don't know. The order of discovered fossils does appear to show a progression similar to how Genesis presents it, but I don't know--not my field of knowledge.

Thank you.