[__ Science __ ] Old Earth vs. Young Earth

[Elijah7777]

The law neither saved anyone ever, nor was obeyed by anyone ever!

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus warns about false disciples: "Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’". This passage emphasizes that simply claiming to follow Jesus is not enough—true faith is demonstrated through obedience to God's will.

People need to read the sermon on the mount. Everything we need to know is there. He teaches us what it means to have the Mind of Christ

• Humility & Servanthood – "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5) Jesus emphasizes humility, a core aspect of His mindset.
• Mercy & Forgiveness – "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." (Matthew 5:7) Christ’s mind is one of grace and compassion.
• Love for Enemies – "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:44) This radical love reflects Christ’s heart and mindset.
• Seeking God First – "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." (Matthew 6:33) The mind of Christ prioritizes God’s will above all else.

 

[Rodger]

Science is a method, not a belief system or an absolute truth itself. It's a structured way to explore, test, and refine our understanding of the world. Through observation, experimentation, and reasoning, science helps us uncover facts and build knowledge—but it’s always open to improvement and change as new evidence emerges.

I have no problem with using science to help us understand out Bible and God's message to us.

I agree completely.

 

[Rodger]

No. Origin sciences are bad religion, all faith based. Not actually science.

Good to know.

It just seems hypocritical to me to accept the science that saves lives with medicines, surgeries, trips to the moon, and so and so and then reject that same science that dates artifacts because we do not have a better answer for the time discrepancies.

 

[Rodger]

finally Rodger

I'd like you to try out this way of thinking. God created everything. He created it just as He has told you. But God's working among us is a miracle to us. A miracle, by definition, cannot be explained as to 'how' an event happened. So on the day that God commanded the earth to exist, do you believe that scientists, two years later, could have correctly dated the earth? What about 100 years later? Would there be something that they would find in the natural make up of all that God created that would say to them, "nothing in here is older than two years." All the mountains and the oceans would have somehow shown that they were only two years old?

God is telling us in His testimony that He created all that exists in this realm in which we live, in six days. He is a being that merely commands a universe of stars and planetary bodies to just near instantly come into existence and hold our awe and wonder for the one who created it all for us. He merely speaks or desires that a sea split wide to allow a group of people to walk through... and it does! That's who God is and His power is soooooo far beyond just being able to part a sea or turn back the sun or make ax heads float or a son to be born without a man's sperm to initiate the pregnancy. That's who God is! He merely thinks to imagine trillions of stars to scatter the known universe and it happens!!!! He merely speaks and a singular planet comes to exist in a dark inky blackness of just empty space. But because He is now there, there is light! For God is light.

Now, that's His fairly clear account of what He has done. I believe it. I believe that somewhere around 6,000 years ago, there were no stars in the night sky. There was no planet spinning aimlessly in space covered in water. Then God spoke and commanded these things to exist as He began to build a realm in which a being that breathed oxygen and ate foods to sustain the flesh of their bodies could live. A being that would be the last of His creating in this realm. And He set Adam and Eve in a garden that He had prepared for them, and they lived with the creator God. That happened about 6,000 years ago according to the fairly clear testimony of God's word and all that they tell us of the matter.

And He knew that we wouldn't believe it. He encouraged by the Spirit for Paul to write that a time was coming when men would not put up with sound doctrine. But to soothe their itching ears they would gather around them a crowd of those who would tell them what they wanted to hear. Fables and myths. So He codified it in the law. The law that He wrote with His own finger on the tablets that in 6 days He created the heavens... and the earth... and all that is in them. He actually had Moses write that in the law when He was recounting for Moses how He had created everything and brought Moses to that place where he now stood.

Do you really believe that some 1600 years after God created everything that exists, that He wouldn't have written that differently in the law that He gave unto Moses... if it wasn't the truth of the matter? Did God create everything that exists in the heavens and in the earth in 6 days?

And if so, then yes, Adam and Eve lived on the earth at the same time that there were dinosaurs roaming somewhere on the earth.

BTW do you have any deer where you live?

A really good post but again, you did not answer the question.

My dear friend, God gave man information as man grew in his ability to understand his surroundings.
That is exactly why we have wheels, and running water and cars and refrigerators.
That is what you are suggesting and YES, I agree totally.

Genesis chapter one is not written as a comprehensive scientific document. In fact, it is a theological statement intended to explain God to his people.

You are saying that God created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago according to the genealogic Bible record....and if you will go back and read the posts from the start, that is what I said!
Old Age theology does not question the 24 hour, 7 day Creation in Genesis.

You believe that Adam and Eve lived along side of dinosaurs, great. However, there is NO Bible evidence of that being the case.

 

[Rodger]

Again, why would that be so? I'm trying to tell you that dinosaurs may not have inhabited the earth where Israel is. How many elephant skeletons have been dug up in Indiana? How many lion skeletons have been dug up in Missouri? Why have you latched on to this idea that if the dinosaurs lived on the earth at the same time as Adam and Eve, that they must have been in Israel? Try this on for size. What if dinosaurs were native to the South African area like the lions? What if they called the body of land we call North America home? I mean, we have dug up several skeletal remains in North America. You seem to have this idea that if dinosaurs existed, they must have covered the entire earth... why? Many other animals don't.

WHY would that be so???? Why have I "Latched onto the idea that if dinosauers lived at the time of Adam and Eve that they must have been in Israel"?????

Maybe I should have said Middle East or Garden of Eden or even Iraq. Are you serious? Where was Adam and Eve living?

YOU made the point and I respond, My dear friend, when animals and humans live side by side, they also die side by side. Death creates bones and skeletons in the ground.

You are not answering the question but instead latched onto me personally.

Let me try another way. YOU have said and others as well that Adam and Eve lived along side of the Dinosaurs. Since that is YOUR position, then logically and simply, the skeletons of humans and those dinosaurs would be found in the earth where ever Adam and Eve and all the patriarchies lived.

My answer then was that NO dinosaur bones have ever been found where Adam and Eve lived and in fact, no human bones of any kind have ever been found with dinosaur bones.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

For many hundreds of years, Old Earth and Young Earth views have been debated back and forth. I have NO expectations of that paradox being solved here, however it can be a stimulating topic. It is also a topic that requires an answer as it usually plays a part in trying to lead a lost person to Christ.

Old Earth and Young Earth represent differing interpretations of the biblical creation account surrounding the science that has come forward in the past 100 years concerning "Dinasour" fossils.

Old Earth sees vast amounts of time spanning billions of years. Various scientific dating methods, and archeology and geographical evidence place the age of the earth around 4.5 billion years and the age of the universe around 14.6 billion years.

However, Young Earth other contends for a timeline of only around Six to Ten thousand years since the universe’s origin based on genealogy records in the Bible. .

The hinge point is how the “days” in Genesis are understood, whether as literal 24-hour days or extended geological periods.

To be clear, the Hebrew word “yom” can refer to DAY or it can refer to an AGE or ERA.

The options to solve the apparent conflict are as follows:
1. the Bible is wrong,
2. the Bible is being interpreted incorrectly, or the
3. scientific data is being interpreted incorrectly.
4. There was a Creation before Genesis 1:1

Neither old earth creationism nor young earth creationism teaches that the Bible is wrong. Generally speaking, both old earth and young earth creationists believe in the inspiration, inerrancy, and authority of God’s Word.

Now if you believe that the Young Earth position is the right one, then you "must" also accept as a fact, that Adam and Eve lived with dinosaurs and that Noah had them on the Ark even though there is NO Biblical record of either one.

What say YOU?

actually I believe Job witnessed 2 dinosours at least there are two post flood.

the behemoth and the leviathon.



2nd. Noah had 2 of every kind. He did not have to have two of every dino. and he also did not have to have adults.

3rd. the flood answers most if not all questions concerning the fossil record. and everything

I used to he a GAP theorist (OEC)

after studying the flood, I am now a Young Earth (YEC)

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Old Age theology does not question the 24 hour, 7 day Creation in Genesis.

You believe that Adam and Eve lived along side of dinosaurs, great. However, there is NO Bible evidence of that being the case.

Some do. they claim the 24 hours are actually ages.. there is seven ages of creation. each age lasting an unknown amount of time.. thousands of year in length

 

[Eternally-grateful]

those are cedar trees

Lol! I see trees, no hippos or elephants--come visit me here in South Africa!

J.

Look up Lebanon cedar. those are huge trees.

I have pics of one where an adult looks like an ant under it.

This is what was described the tail of the behomoth was like..

I know no elephant or hippo that has a tail that even closely resembles this

 

[Eternally-grateful]

The Old Earth position can also be argued from a literal seven-day week, 24-hour day position, so it isn't just on the meaning of "day." It's a matter of what Gen. 1:1 is saying and when the first day of creation began.

gen 1:1 does not say when it starts. Gen 1: 1 is just a statement,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

this is an opening statment a matter of fact. this happened. in general terms

the rest of 1 is what happened during that creation. I think both sides would agree (except the GAP theory proponents) who believe there was a gap between 1: 1 and 1: 3 and the rest of the chapter

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Agreed.

I think it’s helpful to understand that the question “how old is the earth?” is not something directly answered in Scripture but rather deduced from several factors such as ...........
(1) Genesis 1:1 is not the actual act of creation but rather a summary of or title over Genesis 1:2-2:3;
(2) the creation week of Genesis 1:2-2:3 is referring to the act of creation itself;
(3) each “day” (Heb. yom) of the creation week is referring to an 24-hour period of time
(4) an old-earth geology would entail macroevolution, hominids, and animal death before the Fall
(5) the approximate age of the earth can be reconstructed backward from the genealogical time-

death before sin to me is the largest detractor

 

[Rodger]

Two questions for you .

Do you believe God created the dinosaurs ?

If so , when did God create the dinosaurs , before Adam and Eve or when ?

Finally we are getting to the point of the question. You are the 1st one to approach the bottom line.

First of all, I do not know. I have NO idea. I was simply trying to develop discussions.
However, would you agree that God created them out of love for humanity? Think of all the "Bio- deposits" we as humans have used through time.

The existence of a huge, diverse, and enduring population of dinosaurs during past eras when much of Earth’s continental landmass was covered by huge shallow seas significantly contributed to Earth’s present store of bio-deposits. Examples of such bio-deposits include limestone, marble, coal, oil, and natural gas.

Since we can see their skeletons we cannot deny their existence, can we? Isn't what the discussion is or should be ...WHEN were they?

That being said, Dinosaurs, therefore, are expressions of God’s love and generosity. It is thanks in part to God’s creation of dinosaurs that humans possess more than 76 quadrillion tons of bio-deposits that we can use to develop the civilization and technology to take the good news of salvation through Christ the whole world.

If anyone chooses to believe that Adam and Eve and all of the others lived with and along side of dinosaurs, I am in noy arguing with you. I am simply suggesting that there must be another answer as that one is not in the Bible.

 

[Rodger]

death before sin to me is the largest detractor

I understand that. I really do.

Now let me ask you this common sense question. Had sin not entered the world through Adam, what would have happened to the core of an apple after it was eaten? Would it have been absorbed into the ground in a non-decaying manner?

Now, your detraction comes from Romans 5: 12 where we see........
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

OK. I think sometimes we have a tendency to read too much into a text and make a point that was never intended by the author. Remember, in order to properly understand any passage of the Bible, understanding the intent of the author is paramount.

Now consider with me as we look more closely at Genesis 2, we see that God said "in the day you eat from it you shall surely die." Adam and Eve ate the fruit, But Adam didn't die physically in the very same day that he ate from the tree. Now....again, COMMON SENSE reading of the Scripture...
Does this Bible fact make God a liar????

The Bible fact then is that Adam fathered Cain, Abel, Seth and other children and lived a total of 930 years AFTER HE ATE THE FRUIT! !

Now, how do YOU explain that?

Now it may be true that the natural aging process we experience began in Adam on that day (to some extent at least), but in order for God's word to be accurate, the idea of death has to mean something other than cessation of biological life.

I personally explain it as this spiritual death that Paul is speaking of in Romans 5 and indeed throughout the entire book of Romans. The whole purpose of Romans is to show that the Jews are dead in their sins because they have the Law and the gentiles are dead in their sins because God gave them a law unto themselves. In Romans 8 he continues this analogy, writing "the mind set on the flesh is death... Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile towards God" (Rom 8:6,7).

 

[Rodger]

Some do. they claim the 24 hours are actually ages.. there is seven ages of creation. each age lasting an unknown amount of time.. thousands of year in length

Yes that is correct.

Dr. J Vernon Magee was well know as a "Gap" theory person to explain the existence of dinosaurs.

He and many others say that the Hebrew word for day "yom" actually translates as ...a period of time/ ages.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

I understand that. I really do.

Now let me ask you this common sense question. Had sin not entered the world through Adam, what would have happened to the core of an apple after it was eaten? Would it have been absorbed into the ground in a non-decaying manner?

there was no death before the fall.. So I doubt the core would have decayed. 2nd, was there even a core in the apple. since trees would not die. meaning new trees would not need to grow to take their place

Now, your detraction comes from Romans 5: 12 where we see........
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

OK. I think sometimes we have a tendency to read too much into a text and make a point that was never intended by the author. Remember, in order to properly understand any passage of the Bible, understanding the intent of the author is paramount.

Now consider with me as we look more closely at Genesis 2, we see that God said "in the day you eat from it you shall surely die." Adam and Eve ate the fruit, But Adam didn't die physically in the very same day that he ate from the tree. Now....again, COMMON SENSE reading of the Scripture...
Does this Bible fact make God a liar????

The Bible fact then is that Adam fathered Cain, Abel, Seth and other children and lived a total of 930 years AFTER HE ATE THE FRUIT! !

Now, how do YOU explain that?

Now it may be true that the natural aging process we experience began in Adam on that day (to some extent at least), but in order for God's word to be accurate, the idea of death has to mean something other than cessation of biological life.

I personally explain it as this spiritual death that Paul is speaking of in Romans 5 and indeed throughout the entire book of Romans. The whole purpose of Romans is to show that the Jews are dead in their sins because they have the Law and the gentiles are dead in their sins because God gave them a law unto themselves. In Romans 8 he continues this analogy, writing "the mind set on the flesh is death... Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile towards God" (Rom 8:6,7).

I just take the road that death is a result of sin. hence if there was no sin, there would be no death.

so there would not be any death before the fall.

 

[Rodger]

actually I believe Job witnessed 2 dinosours at least there are two post flood.

the behemoth and the leviathon.



2nd. Noah had 2 of every kind. He did not have to have two of every dino. and he also did not have to have adults.

3rd. the flood answers most if not all questions concerning the fossil record. and everything

I used to he a GAP theorist (OEC)

after studying the flood, I am now a Young Earth (YEC)

With all due respect......if you believe that then you are reading into the Scriptures something that is not there.

We can never take a pre-conceived idea and try to validate it with Scripture.

There is NO Bible record of Noah taking dinosaurs on the Ark. Again, by saying that Noah took two of every kind of animal is "reading into" the Scriptures something that is not specifically there.

I can not accept the Flood as the force that cause layers of earth and mountains to shoot upwards.
Plate techtonics has proven that.

 

[Elijah7777]

It just seems hypocritical to me to accept the science that saves lives with medicines, surgeries, trips to the moon,

Half the people would not be alive today if it were not for the practice of medicine. But clearly people take advantage of that to rip people off. People like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and countless doctors that do all they can to stuff money in their pocket. God will judge them and their motives. It is not our place to do that.

 

[Elijah7777]

You thought people needed to know physical laws to understand that a Spirit created it all??

God is a God of absolute Justice. We tend to connect Justice with the Law. Science tells us that the laws of physics are very exact and precise. Also we know the Justice of God is very exact and precise. Everyone gets what is coming to them. People reap what they sow.

 

[Free]

gen 1:1 does not say when it starts. Gen 1: 1 is just a statement,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

this is an opening statment a matter of fact. this happened. in general terms

the rest of 1 is what happened during that creation. I think both sides would agree (except the GAP theory proponents) who believe there was a gap between 1: 1 and 1: 3 and the rest of the chapter

Perhaps you misunderstood. My point is that young earth proponents must necessarily either include verses 1 and 2 as part of day care one, or say that verse 1 is a general statement of creation, with the rest of chapter one simply providing further detail.

What I am suggesting is another possibility—that verse 2 is a continuation of the creation of the universe in verse 1, essentially introducing the earth prior to additional specific creation, and verse 3 is the beginning of the first of the six creation days with respect to the earth in particular.

 

[Hidden In Him]

On the issue of the meaning of "day," it is worth noting some additional things. First, there is no definite article for the first five days, but there is for days six and seven.

If you could, Free, where is this? You are referring to the Hebrew here?

 

[miamited]

Genesis chapter one is not written as a comprehensive scientific document. In fact, it is a theological statement intended to explain God to his people.

I'm always humored when someone parrots the line, "Genesis was not written as a scientific treatise." As if that has any bearing on whether what it tells us is true or not. No, God did not have Moses write the Genesis account to us with all the pi are square explanations of how there were already halos in the rocks. And the atmosphere consisted of 1/3 oxygen and 2/3 hydrogen. No, absolutely the Scriptures were not written with that kind of textual material to explain to all and sundry the 'scientific' make-up of everything that exists. No, not at all.

But it does make some statements that we have no reason to believe are not statements of facts concerning the creation event. It does provide an umbrella of dates and times that certain and specific events happened as regards the creation of all that we see surrounding us. Even much later in the Scriptures we read a number of times the claim that God did make everything. At one point explaining to us that He did it through Jesus, the Son.

So, while I fully agree that the Scriptures will never be a good substitute for a good 'scientific' novel, they are presented to us as the testimony of God Himself concerning who He is, who we are and how this realm of existence in which we wake up every day came to be. Yes, God's word does make that claim. And in the order and by the numbers that He makes that claim we have at least three times in the Scriptures in which God does say that He made everything in six days. He then says that He made Adam on the sixth day and we know that when Adam was 130 years old he had a son named Seth. According to God's testimony, that would make the earth 130 years old and 6 days. Then God had the wisdom to have Moses account all the ages of the fathers as other sons were born to them by which it is an extremely simple matter to see that, according to God's testimony, the earth is just some 6,000 years old. The universe would be the same age minus 3 days.

But honestly, it's hard to comprehend for us. We look at pictures from the Hubble telescope, or now the Webb telescope, and we just can't fathom a creature who can merely command for all of those countless stars and galaxies of stars to just exist. And we have our own solar system sweeping around on a spiral of the Milky Way and nothing ever hits anything of any substance. A few meteors might whizz into a planet or star and make little pock marks on the planets, but none of the big stuff, planets that would shake up the entire universe if they were to collide has ever happened as far as we know, anywhere in the universe. It all seems to be such a pure work of precision that only a God with purpose would create and not just random space junk flying around out there. Which I believe is why God's testimony to us is that we can see the works of His abilities when we stand in awe of the heavens. The heavens declare the glory of God, God's word tells us. We should look at the heavens to get some idea of what the glory of God is like. His awesome power and wisdom to create an entire universe that runs like a finely made clockwork. God's testimony to us, although it's not 'scientifically' proven yet, is that when we look at the heavens we get a glimpse of the glory of God.

So yes, when I look at those telescope images I am just awed by the power of the one who created it all. And I consider the power and majesty and wisdom it must have taken to conceive and create all of that in the span of time of a mere rotation of the planet earth. He just flung it all out there, but it has always run like a finely tuned clockwork.

God's testimony to us is that in 6 evenings and mornings, that He refers to as days, He created this realm for us in which we are living. It was made with all the atmospheric conditions on this one singular planet, as far as we know, for a creature, that His testimony also tells us that He scooped up some dirt with which He made the first of us, to have life... and to have it abundantly! It was created with all the trees and foliage and animals needed to sustain this cycle of life that He began in this realm of existence of His creating. As far as we know there is no other planetary body in all of the universe that has what is necessary for man to live on. That tells me that God is pretty specifically just working with the earth as far as this created existence in which we live.

He called for the earth to exist and it did. Spinning all alone. He fashioned the earth to be able to sustain mankind and He placed the sun and moon and stars in the heavens. He did that all in six days. And on that final sixth day of God's work of creating, He fashioned the first man and then made him a woman as a companion and helpmate. God confirms for us that accounting of the six days taken to create this realm that He has made for us in which to live at least 3 times in His testimony to us.

Now, you're free to say, "Well, science tells me that just can't be true! They have proof that it just isn't the truth of the matter." Me, I'm going with God's testimony to me as to the how and why and when this realm of existence came to be. And just as with any other of God's miracles, I'm going to just know and understand that science can't prove or disprove a miracle. When science can tell me how Mary wound up pregnant, then I'll listen to any other explanations they might have concerning miracles. I'm very anxious to hear how they have proven that God parted the sea and how He did that.