The Perverted Gospel!

[onlysaved]

Mary was the mother of Jesus. That's all. Jesus was the pre-existing creator of everything that was ever created as John Chapter 1.

Mary was simply a human being chosen to carry the Christ child.
Apart from the birth of Jesus she plays a very minor role in the gospels.
Again this isn't to take anything away from her but she is not divine, not to be worshipped and is not our mediator.

 

[donadams]

Again... none of those are examples of suffering leading to salvation..
Yes we will suffer for Christ but that suffering is the result of salvation not the cause of it.

not if we are "called" to a life of suffering phil 1:29

a sacrifice offered for love of God covers sin
and salvation is the result of faithfulness Jn 1:15-6 endure "suffering" to the end mt 10:22 the narrow road leads to life!

protestant doctrine is
bass-ackwards

saved then get baptized
makes baptism meaningless

saved then the narrow road
makes the narrow road meaningless

saved why bother being found faithful when the Lord comes

etc.

why is antipass praised by God for being faithful? rev 2:13

 

[donadams]

Again... none of those are examples of suffering leading to salvation..
Yes we will suffer for Christ but that suffering is the result of salvation not the cause of it.

That is truly a perverted gospel.


What also is a perverted gospel is one that forbids men (priests) to marry.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry… 1 Timothy 4:1-3


Why does the Vatican forbid its priests to marry?

Why does the Vatican forbid Nuns from marrying?

no such thing anyone is free to get married

its the the albigensian heretics that forbade marriage cos of their belief in two gods one good spiritual and one bad material

was paul married?

did Christ praise celibacy for the sake of the gospel
Mark 10:29-30
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

 

[donadams]

You are reaching very far and twisting those scriptures hard.

only peter received the keys of the kingdom mt 16:18-19 taken from those successors of moses mt 23:1 mt 21:43

 

[donadams]

Act of faith.. faith in action same thing. But the fact is Noah believed God long before God ever asked him to build an ark.

actually its in back to back verses
gen 6:13-14
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

 

[donadams]

Trusting God is faith in God...

But what can be plainer than the many weighty testimonies of the divine declarations, which afford to us the clearest proof possible that without union with Christ there is no man who can attain to eternal life and salvation!
St. Augustine

 

[donadams]

Mary was the mother of Jesus. That's all. Jesus was the pre-existing creator of everything that was ever created as John Chapter 1.

Mary was simply a human being chosen to carry the Christ child.
Apart from the birth of Jesus she plays a very minor role in the gospels.
Again this isn't to take anything away from her but she is not divine, not to be worshipped and is not our mediator.

Only two choices:

1) Mary is the Mother of God, cos Jesus is God, one divine person who became man, and Mary is His mother.

2) Or the nestorian heresy condemned by the apostolic church, Jesus is two persons one human, one divine, and Mary is the mother of His human person and therefore not the mother of God.

The "Hail Mary" once brought the grace "our salvation" and the "Hail Mary" shall always bring us the grace we need!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, (Mary) full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

 

[Fish153]

Only two choices:

1) Mary is the Mother of God, cos Jesus is God, one divine person who became man, and Mary is His mother.

2) Or the nestorian heresy condemned by the apostolic church, Jesus is two persons one human, one divine, and Mary is the mother of His human person and therefore not the mother of God.

The "Hail Mary" once brought the grace "our salvation" and the "Hail Mary" shall always bring us the grace we need!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, (Mary) full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR." (Luke 1: 46,47)

Only sinners need a Savior.

 

[JLB]

no such thing anyone is free to get married

Why does the Catholic Church not allow nuns and priests to marry?

 

[Fish153]

not if we are "called" to a life of suffering phil 1:29

a sacrifice offered for love of God covers sin
and salvation is the result of faithfulness Jn 1:15-6 endure "suffering" to the end mt 10:22 the narrow road leads to life!

protestant doctrine is
bass-ackwards

saved then get baptized
makes baptism meaningless

saved then the narrow road
makes the narrow road meaningless

saved why bother being found faithful when the Lord comes

etc.

why is antipass praised by God for being faithful? rev 2:13

"Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?" (John 11:40)

There are a lot of things "backwards" in the way of salvation. The world says "seeing is believing". Jesus says "Believing is seeing". Yes---we are saved and THEN baptized--not baptized to be saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". (Eph. 2:8-10)

Ephesians 2: 8-10 says that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. And verse 10 says we are saved (created) UNTO good works---not saved BY our works. Yes---it's all backwards isn't it? Totally the reverse from the way the world sees and believes things.

 

[onlysaved]

iv'e heard it for forty years and never found anything about protestantism to be true

you can keep picking luther's cotton on the reformation plantation I will be a child of God and Mary!

The "Hail Mary" once brought the grace "our salvation" and the "Hail Mary" shall always bring us the grace we need!

Amen?

iv'e heard it for forty years and never found anything about protestantism to be true

you can keep picking luther's cotton on the reformation plantation I will be a child of God and Mary!

The "Hail Mary" once brought the grace "our salvation" and the "Hail Mary" shall always bring us the grace we need!

Amen?

no such thing anyone is free to get married

its the the albigensian heretics that forbade marriage cos of their belief in two gods one good spiritual and one bad material

was paul married?

did Christ praise celibacy for the sake of the gospel
Mark 10:29-30
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Yes Paul was at some point married. Most likely a widower. To be a Pharisee marriage was a requirement.

only peter received the keys of the kingdom mt 16:18-19 taken from those successors of moses mt 23:1 mt 21:43

Nope he was to more than just Peter.

But what can be plainer than the many weighty testimonies of the divine declarations, which afford to us the clearest proof possible that without union with Christ there is no man who can attain to eternal life and salvation!
St. Augustine

Faith in Christ's work on the cross begins that union.

 

[donadams]

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR." (Luke 1: 46,47)

Only sinners need a Savior.

don't be narrow minded
a savior does not necessarily indicate sin!


All of the truths of the Christian faith are revealed (Jude 1:3) by Christ to His apostolic church, and binding the faith of all Christians to believe. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 bound on earth bound in heaven.

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity) cannot have a "Holy" Spirit conceive the "Holy" son of God in a wretched filthy sinner! Holy Spirit conceives the Holy son of God in the Holy virgin Mary!

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)
(Christ is savior in forgiving sin and by His powerful grace preventing sin) Mary by God's grace is preserved by Her savior from all sin.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

“Things plural”

(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

anything consecrated to God and His service must be pure holy and only for His purpose (perpetual virgin)

exodus everything dedicated to God's service is pure and holy, and more than this Mary is the consecrated dedicated "handmaid of the Lord"!

Amen!

 

[donadams]

who says this? they are free to marry

 

[Fish153]

don't be narrow minded
a savior does not necessarily indicate sin!


All of the truths of the Christian faith are revealed (Jude 1:3) by Christ to His apostolic church, and binding the faith of all Christians to believe. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 bound on earth bound in heaven.

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity) cannot have a "Holy" Spirit conceive the "Holy" son of God in a wretched filthy sinner! Holy Spirit conceives the Holy son of God in the Holy virgin Mary!

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)
(Christ is savior in forgiving sin and by His powerful grace preventing sin) Mary by God's grace is preserved by Her savior from all sin.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

“Things plural”

(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

anything consecrated to God and His service must be pure holy and only for His purpose (perpetual virgin)

exodus everything dedicated to God's service is pure and holy, and more than this Mary is the consecrated dedicated "handmaid of the Lord"!

Amen!

That doctrine is NOT taught in the Bible. Mary was not "sinless". Jesus was the only person who has walked this earth and not sinned. Making Mary "sinless" is an attempt to take glory from Jesus. It is also an attempt to remove the ONE path to God that is through Jesus alone. She is not a "perpetual virgin".

"And "knew her" not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS". (Matt. 1:25)
In modern translations it says "and had no sexual relations with her UNTIL she had brought forth her firstborn son".

The Immaculate conception is not a BIBILICAL TEACHING- it is merely a "tradition" of the Catholic Church.

 

[Fish153]

Yes Paul was at some point married. Most likely a widower. To be a Pharisee marriage was a requirement.

Nope he was to more than just Peter.

Faith in Christ's work on the cross begins that union.

Don---you said:

"The "Hail Mary" once brought the grace "our salvation" and the "Hail Mary" shall always bring us the grace we need!"

Nope. The Bible does not teach us to go to Mary for the grace we need. "Let us come boldly unto the THRONE OF GRACE that we may obtain mercy, and FIND GRACE TO HELP IN TIME OF NEED" (Heb. 4:16)

We don't go to Mary for grace to help in time of need. We go to the Father through Jesus Christ---we go to HIS THRONE. All other teaching is false.

 

[donadams]

"Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?" (John 11:40)

There are a lot of things "backwards" in the way of salvation. The world says "seeing is believing". Jesus says "Believing is seeing". Yes---we are saved and THEN baptized--not baptized to be saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". (Eph. 2:8-10)

Ephesians 2: 8-10 says that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. And verse 10 says we are saved (created) UNTO good works---not saved BY our works. Yes---it's all backwards isn't it? Totally the reverse from the way the world sees and believes things.

then baptism is meaningless
saved then the narrow road?
narrow road LEADS to life

faith alone perverts the gospel

not saved mk 13:13 mt 10:22 mt 24:13

faith alone means faith alone nothing added nothing else required
faith alone absolutely EXCLUDES
repentance
love of God
hope
repentance
amendment of life
doing penance
prayer
sacrifice / suffering

thks

 

[donadams]

Yes Paul was at some point married. Most likely a widower. To be a Pharisee marriage was a requirement.

Nope he was to more than just Peter.

Faith in Christ's work on the cross begins that union.

faith and baptism

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

 

[donadams]

That doctrine is NOT taught in the Bible. Mary was not "sinless". Jesus was the only person who has walked this earth and not sinned. Making Mary "sinless" is an attempt to take glory from Jesus. It is also an attempt to remove the ONE path to God that is through Jesus alone. She is not a "perpetual virgin".

"And "knew her" not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS". (Matt. 1:25)
In modern translations it says "and had no sexual relations with her UNTIL she had brought forth her firstborn son".

The Immaculate conception is not a BIBILICAL TEACHING- it is merely a "tradition" of the Catholic Church.

titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. The Immaculate Conception of Mary! Lk 1:49

until only is up to that point it sats nothing about what happened after that

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

 

[Fish153]

titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. The Immaculate Conception of Mary! Lk 1:49

until only is up to that point it sats nothing about what happened after that

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

Michal "had no child until the day of her death" is clearly stating that she did not have any children UNTIL she died. it is not inferring she had them after death. But with Mary it says that Joseph "had no sexual relations with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to Jesus". She was STILL ALIVE. So you are twisting that scripture about Michal.

There is a big difference between saying (for example): "you will have no children until you die" and "you will have no children until you turn 40 years old". One is stating you will NEVER have children--the other is stating you will not have children UNTIL you turn 40 years old. That is the sense the Bible is giving when it says Joseph had no sex UNTIL Mary had given birth. It clearly infers he DID have sexual relations with Mary AFTER Jesus was born. In the case of Milchal it is clearly stating that she WILL NOT have children until the day she dies (it is not inferring by that that her dead body is going to give birth after that---that would be a very ignorant interpretation).

 

[Fish153]

then baptism is meaningless
saved then the narrow road?
narrow road LEADS to life

faith alone perverts the gospel

not saved mk 13:13 mt 10:22 mt 24:13

faith alone means faith alone nothing added nothing else required
faith alone absolutely EXCLUDES
repentance
love of God
hope
repentance
amendment of life
doing penance
prayer
sacrifice / suffering

thks

Don---
You have a wrong understanding of Baptism. Yes---Baptism is very important--it isn't "meaningless". Baptism is like the Jewish Circumcision. It is a "sign" you are accepting God's Covenant. But you are not SAVED by being Baptized. Baptism is something you do to show EVERYONE that you have CHOSEN to walk the narrow road. You are telling the world that what you accepted internally you are now making known externally!

You are wrong about believing you are saved by faith and that excludes all those important parts of the Christian life you list. Being saved by faith LEADS to complete repentance. Why? Because the Holy Spirit now lives within you. Salvation is a GIFT OF GOD. Once we receive it and the Spirit comes to live within us we are changed: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation. Old things have passed away, behold all things have become new". (2 Cor. 5:17).

You have it backwards. Jesus doesn't ask you to clean yourself up before you come to him. It's the reverse: you come to him and he cleans you up! Did Jesus say to Matthew: "Repent of everything wrong you are doing, and then follow me?" No. He just said to Matthew "Follow me". Then Matthew began to get cleaner and cleaner as he followed Jesus. The same with Peter, John and James. He said to them "Follow me". He didn't ask them to clean up their lives BEFORE they followed him.