The Perverted Gospel!

[onlysaved]

faith and baptism

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

Wrong.. anything other than salvation by grace through faith is not the Gospel of Christ.
The thief on the cross is proof.
Furthermore it is Christ who gives the faith to believe in the first place.
So really the individual has next to nothing to do with salvation it's entirely a work of God and He always finishes what He begins.
Baptism does not save you nor does any other sacrament.

It is by grace you are saved through faith and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not the result of works so that no man may boast.

You are turning Baptism into a work.

 

[donadams]

Michal "had no child until the day of her death" is clearly stating that she did not have any children UNTIL she died. it is not inferring she had them after death. But with Mary it says that Joseph "had no sexual relations with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to Jesus". She was STILL ALIVE. So you are twisting that scripture about Michal.

There is a big difference between saying (for example): "you will have no children until you die" and "you will have no children until you turn 40 years old". One is stating you will NEVER have children--the other is stating you will not have children UNTIL you turn 40 years old. That is the sense the Bible is giving when it says Joseph had no sex UNTIL Mary had given birth. It clearly infers he DID have sexual relations with Mary AFTER Jesus was born. In the case of Milchal it is clearly stating that she WILL NOT have children until the day she dies (it is not inferring by that that her dead body is going to give birth after that---that would be a very ignorant interpretation).

then they had no sex period as scripture states! Lk 1:34 a virgin cannot know a man in reference to "sex"

 

[donadams]

Michal "had no child until the day of her death" is clearly stating that she did not have any children UNTIL she died. it is not inferring she had them after death. But with Mary it says that Joseph "had no sexual relations with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to Jesus". She was STILL ALIVE. So you are twisting that scripture about Michal.

There is a big difference between saying (for example): "you will have no children until you die" and "you will have no children until you turn 40 years old". One is stating you will NEVER have children--the other is stating you will not have children UNTIL you turn 40 years old. That is the sense the Bible is giving when it says Joseph had no sex UNTIL Mary had given birth. It clearly infers he DID have sexual relations with Mary AFTER Jesus was born. In the case of Milchal it is clearly stating that she WILL NOT have children until the day she dies (it is not inferring by that that her dead body is going to give birth after that---that would be a very ignorant interpretation).

matt 28:20 I am with you UNTIL the end of the world

so after that He will no longer be with us?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I used to adhere to OSAS (once saved always saved) [when I was still Protestant], which is essentially what this thread is about, yeah?

I'd say there's enough verses on salvation to dispute OSAS as false doctrine, but of course there has been very bitter debate over that matter for.... decades upon decades. Including on this forum. Though I can understand the interest in discussing it, I feel less and less that the answer is to be found in dissecting words and verses from particular passages.
As someone who is prone to anxiety and has dealt a little with OCD in regards to salvation (to the point of getting little sleep at night, at one point over a decade ago), a doctrine like OSAS is tempting in offering certainty for such anxieties. "I said the salvation prayer when I was 15, that secured my eternity."

But I digress.

Catholic teaching is that the Church is founded upon Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, passed on by word of mouth from the Apostles themselves. That's why the verses and passages on salvation tend to be so widely spread, I think, rather than like... having a whole chapter or a whole book of the Bible detailing "How to Get and Stay Saved" or what-have-you. Because we never were intended to just Wing It from reading the Bible alone. Protestants are running on incomplete instructions.

Judaism itself, had plenty of "word of mouth" going on.

 

[donadams]

Don---
You have a wrong understanding of Baptism. Yes---Baptism is very important--it isn't "meaningless". Baptism is like the Jewish Circumcision. It is a "sign" you are accepting God's Covenant. But you are not SAVED by being Baptized. Baptism is something you do to show EVERYONE that you have CHOSEN to walk the narrow road. You are telling the world that what you accepted internally you are now making known externally!

You are wrong about believing you are saved by faith and that excludes all those important parts of the Christian life you list. Being saved by faith LEADS to complete repentance. Why? Because the Holy Spirit now lives within you. Salvation is a GIFT OF GOD. Once we receive it and the Spirit comes to live within us we are changed: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation. Old things have passed away, behold all things have become new". (2 Cor. 5:17).

You have it backwards. Jesus doesn't ask you to clean yourself up before you come to him. It's the reverse: you come to him and he cleans you up! Did Jesus say to Matthew: "Repent of everything wrong you are doing, and then follow me?" No. He just said to Matthew "Follow me". Then Matthew began to get cleaner and cleaner as he followed Jesus. The same with Peter, John and James. He said to them "Follow me". He didn't ask them to clean up their lives BEFORE they followed him.

Jn 3:5 cannot enter
1pet 2:11 an entrance shall be administered


Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas, on the Feast of Christ the King (#15): "The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration."

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: “Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others."

 

[donadams]

Wrong.. anything other than salvation by grace through faith is not the Gospel of Christ.
The thief on the cross is proof.
Furthermore it is Christ who gives the faith to believe in the first place.
So really the individual has next to nothing to do with salvation it's entirely a work of God and He always finishes what He begins.
Baptism does not save you nor does any other sacrament.

It is by grace you are saved through faith and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not the result of works so that no man may boast.

You are turning Baptism into a work.

baptism is a requirement of the new covenant and is not in effect till the death of the savior and the proclaiming of the gospel at pentecost
"repent and be baptized"!

heb 9:16-17 acts 2:38-39

union with God by Christ in the grace of baptismal regeneration

titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Note 1) Saved by both washing (baptismal regeneration) and the renewing of the Spirit! (saved means justified not full eternal salvation, but part of the process.

Note 2) this verse shows that baptism is NOT A WORK, "not of works righteousness" but God's work of a new creation in Christ!
(ez36:25-27)

Note 3) our bodies washed
(outward water) heb 10:22, and souls renewed by the spirit
(inward grace) acts 22:16 heb 2:11

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30).

Jn 3;5 cannot enter
2 pet 1:11 entrance administered
Jn 3:22 went to the river to baptize
Jn 4:1 baptism
mk 16:16 baptism
matt 28:19 baptism


The Sacraments are NOT about man’s work. They are the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. They are how Christ dispenses grace to us and how we obtain union with God.

The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body.

Seated at the right hand of the Father" and pouring out the Holy Spirit on his Body which is the Church, Christ now acts through the sacraments he instituted to communicate his grace.

They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church.

They are efficacious because in them Christ himself is at work: it is he who baptizes, he who acts in his sacraments in order to communicate the grace that each sacrament signifies.

 

[Fish153]

Jn 3:5 cannot enter
1pet 2:11 an entrance shall be administered


Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas, on the Feast of Christ the King (#15): "The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration."

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: “Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others."

Why are you quoting Popes? I couldn't care less what a Pope says. I heed the Word of God.

 

[Fish153]

matt 28:20 I am with you UNTIL the end of the world

so after that He will no longer be with us?

Again, you are twisting scripture. Jesus is stating that He will not leave us as orphans----that He will be with us through the Holy Spirit UNTIL the end of the world. Meaning---he will not LEAVE US. He has ALREADY promised us He will be with us eternally in Heaven---so He is referring to TIME. He will not abandon us as long as time exists. This still does not remove the meaning of the Gospel saying "And Joseph knew her not (had no sexual relations) UNTIL she had given birth to her first born son Jesus". It is referring to a time period (her pregnancy)--and when that is over there WILL BE A SEXUAL UNION. Just as Jesus refers to a time period (until the end of the world) where he will never abandon us. You are twisting the meaning of the word UNTIL by twisting scripture.

 

[Fish153]

then they had no sex period as scripture states! Lk 1:34 a virgin cannot know a man in reference to "sex"

Yes-----she was a virgin UNTIL the birth of Jesus. AFTER THAT she had sexual relations with Joseph. That is what Scripture actually teaches. It says of Joseph "and he KNEW HER NOT (did not have sexual relations) UNTIL she gave birth to her first born son, Jesus". It is clearly speaking of a "time period" where no sexual relations occurred (her pregnancy). But AFTER she gave birth they came together and were intimate. Mary is not a perpetual Virgin---neither is she SINLESS. She was a holy woman whom God chose to use (due to her appearance in the bloodline) as the mother of Jesus.

The Jews appear to have had the same problem that Catholics who revere Mary have:

"As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

"But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto HER, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil". (Jer. 44:16,17)

 

[onlysaved]

baptism is a requirement of the new covenant and is not in effect till the death of the savior and the proclaiming of the gospel at pentecost
"repent and be baptized"!

heb 9:16-17 acts 2:38-39

union with God by Christ in the grace of baptismal regeneration

titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Note 1) Saved by both washing (baptismal regeneration) and the renewing of the Spirit! (saved means justified not full eternal salvation, but part of the process.

Note 2) this verse shows that baptism is NOT A WORK, "not of works righteousness" but God's work of a new creation in Christ!
(ez36:25-27)

Note 3) our bodies washed
(outward water) heb 10:22, and souls renewed by the spirit
(inward grace) acts 22:16 heb 2:11

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30).

Jn 3;5 cannot enter
2 pet 1:11 entrance administered
Jn 3:22 went to the river to baptize
Jn 4:1 baptism
mk 16:16 baptism
matt 28:19 baptism


The Sacraments are NOT about man’s work. They are the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. They are how Christ dispenses grace to us and how we obtain union with God.

The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body.

Seated at the right hand of the Father" and pouring out the Holy Spirit on his Body which is the Church, Christ now acts through the sacraments he instituted to communicate his grace.

They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church.

They are efficacious because in them Christ himself is at work: it is he who baptizes, he who acts in his sacraments in order to communicate the grace that each sacrament signifies.

No.. grace is distributed freely on the basis of faith in the work of Jesus.
He who has the Son has the life, He who does not have the Son does not have life.

Faith in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross is the one and only way to have access to grace and eternal salvation.

 

[onlysaved]

Jn 3:5 cannot enter
1pet 2:11 an entrance shall be administered


Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas, on the Feast of Christ the King (#15): "The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration."

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: “Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others."

What any pope ever said is irrelevant. The Pope is a man made contraption.

 

[donadams]

Why are you quoting Popes? I couldn't care less what a Pope says. I heed the Word of God.

and the word says heed the popes!

Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17
matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
acts 1:8
acts 2:42
acts 16:17
acts 17:18
the apostolic church commanded to teach, sanctify, and govern!

 

[donadams]

Not “scripture alone”!

Matt 5:14 are the apostles the light (truth) of the world or “scripture alone”?
Matt 6:33 must we seek the truth in the kingdom or “scripture alone”?
Matt 13:11 do the apostles know these or “scripture alone”?
Matt 18:17 must we hear the church or “scripture alone”?
Matt 28:19 do the apostles have the truth they are commanded to teach or “scripture alone”?
Lk 1:4 are we to be instructed or search and make our own doctrine according to “scripture alone”?
Lk 10:16 is the teaching of the apostles the teaching of Christ or “scripture alone”?
Jn 1:18 revealed by Christ not scripture alone?
Jn 8:32 do the apostles know the truth or “scripture alone”?
Jn 16:13 apostles are lead into all truth or “scripture alone”?
Jn 20:21 do the apostles have the same authority as Christ or “scripture alone”?
Acts 1:8 are the apostles the witnesses of Christ or “scripture alone”?
Acts 2:42 believe the apostles doctrine or “scripture alone”?
Acts 8:26 did God send and apostle or “scripture alone”?
Acts 8:31 must a man teach or “scripture alone”?
Acts 18:25 was he instructed or just read “scripture alone”?
Rom 10:15 preaching of the apostles or “scripture alone”?
1 cor 11:23 handed down tradition or “scripture alone”?
2 thes 2:2 word, letter or “scripture alone”?
2 thes 2:15 tradition (oral and a scripture) or “scripture alone”?
*this one alone is enough to refute “sola scriptura “!
Col 2:7 taught or “scripture alone”?
Eph 4:5 the faith revealed by Christ or “scripture alone”?
Heb 13:7 spoken the word of God or “scripture alone”?
Heb 13:17 do they teach you the faith or “scripture alone”?
1 Tim 3:15 is the church the pillar of truth or “scripture alone”?
1 Jn 1:3-5 declared unto you or you read “scripture alone”?
1 Jn 4:6 hear the apostles or “scripture alone”?
2 Jn 1:12 face to face with apostle or “scripture alone”?
Jude 1:3 the faith revealed by tradition (handed) to the apostles or “scripture alone”?

 

[Fish153]

and the word says heed the popes!

Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17
matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
acts 1:8
acts 2:42
acts 16:17
acts 17:18
the apostolic church commanded to teach, sanctify, and govern!

No. You are twisting Scripture again. There have been Popes who have done TERRIBLE things! thank you. https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/worst-popes/

 

[evenifigoalone]

Another thing that occurred to me is that OSAS is not in the Bible. That's a doctrine I was taught growing up, but it's based off abstract reasoning based on man's interpretation of scripture, rather than scripture.

 

[donadams]

Again, you are twisting scripture. Jesus is stating that He will not leave us as orphans----that He will be with us through the Holy Spirit UNTIL the end of the world. Meaning---he will not LEAVE US. He has ALREADY promised us He will be with us eternally in Heaven---so He is referring to TIME. He will not abandon us as long as time exists. This still does not remove the meaning of the Gospel saying "And Joseph knew her not (had no sexual relations) UNTIL she had given birth to her first born son Jesus". It is referring to a time period (her pregnancy)--and when that is over there WILL BE A SEXUAL UNION. Just as Jesus refers to a time period (until the end of the world) where he will never abandon us. You are twisting the meaning of the word UNTIL by twisting scripture.

all of the church fathers and the so-called reformers believed as I do your with helvidius who calvin called a heretic!

 

[donadams]

Yes-----she was a virgin UNTIL the birth of Jesus. AFTER THAT she had sexual relations with Joseph. That is what Scripture actually teaches. It says of Joseph "and he KNEW HER NOT (did not have sexual relations) UNTIL she gave birth to her first born son, Jesus". It is clearly speaking of a "time period" where no sexual relations occurred (her pregnancy). But AFTER she gave birth they came together and were intimate. Mary is not a perpetual Virgin---neither is she SINLESS. She was a holy woman whom God chose to use (due to her appearance in the bloodline) as the mother of Jesus.

The Jews appear to have had the same problem that Catholics who revere Mary have:

"As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

"But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto HER, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil". (Jer. 44:16,17)

Lk 1:34 has no date stamp and it is never repealed!

 

[donadams]

Yes-----she was a virgin UNTIL the birth of Jesus. AFTER THAT she had sexual relations with Joseph. That is what Scripture actually teaches. It says of Joseph "and he KNEW HER NOT (did not have sexual relations) UNTIL she gave birth to her first born son, Jesus". It is clearly speaking of a "time period" where no sexual relations occurred (her pregnancy). But AFTER she gave birth they came together and were intimate. Mary is not a perpetual Virgin---neither is she SINLESS. She was a holy woman whom God chose to use (due to her appearance in the bloodline) as the mother of Jesus.

The Jews appear to have had the same problem that Catholics who revere Mary have:

"As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

"But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto HER, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil". (Jer. 44:16,17)

since there is an anti-christ there must not be a true Christ?

 

[onlysaved]

and the word says heed the popes!

Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17
matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
acts 1:8
acts 2:42
acts 16:17
acts 17:18
the apostolic church commanded to teach, sanctify, and govern!

Luke 10 16.. that sets up Jesus's authority not independent authority of the Apostles. The Apostles have authority only as they teach what Jesus says. And! This is not unique to the apostles. Anyone who preaches the Gospel has authority, not because of themselves but because of the authority of the Gospel itself..

Again John 13 20 applies to Jesus's authority displayed in anyone He sends, which is true of the Apostles but not unique to them. And that authority is not of the people He sends it is the authority of the gospel.
And so on.....

 

[donadams]

No.. grace is distributed freely on the basis of faith in the work of Jesus.
He who has the Son has the life, He who does not have the Son does not have life.

Faith in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross is the one and only way to have access to grace and eternal salvation.

what does Jesus say? mk 16:16 he who believes and baptized shall be saved!