Is the NIV dishonest?

[donadams]

Is the NIV dishonest?

tradition / teaching

negative or human tradition is called tradition

positive apostolic tradition is called teaching


[negative examples]

KJV) Mt 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

NIV) Mt 15:3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?


KJV) Mk 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

NIV) Mk 7:8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.


KJV) Mk 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition...

NIV) Mk 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition...


[positive examples]


KJV) 2 thes 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

NIV) 2 thes 2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.


KJV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.


NIV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.


Then the KJV changed it!

[positive example]

KJV) 1 cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

NIV) 1 cor 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

thks

(not limited to the niv its in many translations)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not sure what your contention is here, Don. Present the argument you are making a little clearer before I comment please.

Blessings,
- H

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Is the NIV dishonest?

tradition / teaching

negative or human tradition is called tradition

positive apostolic tradition is called teaching


[negative examples]

KJV) Mt 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

NIV) Mt 15:3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?


KJV) Mk 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

NIV) Mk 7:8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.


KJV) Mk 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition...

NIV) Mk 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition...


[positive examples]


KJV) 2 thes 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

NIV) 2 thes 2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.


KJV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.


NIV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.


Then the KJV changed it!

[positive example]

KJV) 1 cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

NIV) 1 cor 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

thks

(not limited to the niv its in many translations)

I agree with Hidden In Him, but traditions can be either good or bad. Jesus criticized the religious leaders' use of their made-up rules that had no basis in the Scriptures. They wanted to control the people. If a tradition has that basis firmly in the Bible and is followed sincerely in worship or life, it is good.

 

[donadams]

I agree with Hidden In Him, but traditions can be either good or bad. Jesus criticized the religious leaders' use of their made-up rules that had no basis in the Scriptures. They wanted to control the people. If a tradition has that basis firmly in the Bible and is followed sincerely in worship or life, it is good.

why are the tranlations inconsistent?

call it all tradition!

 

[Free]

why are the tranlations inconsistent?

call it all tradition!

What is your point?

 

[WIP]

Please explain what part of the verses you quoted that show inconsistency. For some reason, I am not seeing it. The NIV translations you quoted look to be saying the same as the KJV translations. Am I just blind? What am I missing?

 

[miamited]

why are the tranlations inconsistent?

call it all tradition!

Hi donadams

I've read many of the reliable translations and have yet to find one that is inconsistent. I've found that all of the reliable translations are very consistent. They all proclaim the same historical record of God's creating all that exists. They all proclaim the same historical record of God working through His people to bring His salvation to us. Then we have the modern work that explains how believers are to live, and I haven't found any inconsistencies in that. Finally, they all proclaim what will be happening during the last days into the eternal future and all the translations that I've read seem to be consistent in that, also.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

why are the tranlations inconsistent?

call it all tradition!

donadams, they are inconsistent because the older ones had only 10th-century manuscripts to go on (KJV, etc.), whereas the newer ones have older, 3rd and 4th-century manuscripts that have been discovered more recently (ESV).

However, they all agree on the teaching and history. Besides that, language changes as time goes on, and the meanings of words change. That's another reason we need new translations for new generations. It's good to compare them, though.

 

[KV-44-v1]

NASB 1977 > NIV. Too many issues in NIV. NASB 1977 or 1995 is the BEST as a Main Bible.

Don't bother with paraphrase translations. Accuracy FIRST.

 

[Free]

NASB 1977 > NIV. Too many issues in NIV. NASB 1977 or 1995 is the BEST as a Main Bible.

No, not really.

Don't bother with paraphrase translations. Accuracy FIRST.

Not necessarily true. Watch the video in THIS thread.

 

[Randy]

What is your point?

Notwithstanding the meaning is teachings not traditions in the NT quotes I believe he is trying to elevate the importance of traditions created by the catholic church to equal footing as given scripture to be followed as valid commands.

 

[donadams]

Please explain what part of the verses you quoted that show inconsistency. For some reason, I am not seeing it. The NIV translations you quoted look to be saying the same as the KJV translations. Am I just blind? What am I missing?

the word tradition!

if it is in a negative context it called "tradition" if its in a positive context it called "teaching"

 

[donadams]

donadams, they are inconsistent because the older ones had only 10th-century manuscripts to go on (KJV, etc.), whereas the newer ones have older, 3rd and 4th-century manuscripts that have been discovered more recently (ESV).

However, they all agree on the teaching and history. Besides that, language changes as time goes on, and the meanings of words change. That's another reason we need new translations for new generations. It's good to compare them, though.

im not comparing translations but the choice of words in a single translation

 

[donadams]

Notwithstanding the meaning is teachings not traditions in the NT quotes I believe he is trying to elevate the importance of traditions created by the catholic church to equal footing as given scripture to be followed as valid commands.

scripture is tradition 2 thes 2:15

 

[Randy]

Don, Paul was one of the 12 chosen by God and set aside from birth before he did good or bad. He received the gospel by revelation. Raised in traditions and one under law He never backed down from grace.

I tell you something from wisdom given to me from above. They failed to wait for an answer from the Lord. A big snafu yet the Lord finds this in their favor, their motives were pure, and they could not know about Paul at that time who we read had already been set aside from birth.

Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

 

[Randy]

scripture is tradition 2 thes 2:15

As I stated the meaning is teachings not traditions. This new covenant introduced in Christ blood and serving God in the new way of the spirit is not the traditions Paul was raised in.

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

[donadams]

Don, Paul was one of the 12 chosen by God and set aside from birth before he did good or bad. He received the gospel by revelation. Raised in traditions and one under law He never backed down from grace.

I tell you something from wisdom given to me from above. They failed to wait for an answer from the Lord. A big snafu yet the Lord finds this in their favor, their motives were pure, and they could not know about Paul at that time who we read had already been set aside from birth.

Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

not sure what you are saying?

 

[donadams]

As I stated the meaning is teachings not traditions. This new covenant introduced in Christ blood and serving God in the new way of the spirit is not the traditions Paul was raised in.

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

whats the difference?

 

[Randy]

not sure what you are saying?

Its speaks against apostolic succession.

 

[Randy]

whats the difference?

What the difference between NT scripture and introduced traditions is that what your asking? Those who teach and preach should do so from the NT and not go beyond what is written.

If Paul considered anything in judgments he made it was the law not traditions. It's clear to me He saw all the law as law.

Such as,
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.

Those who were standing near Paul said, “How dare you insult God’s high priest!”
Paul replied, “Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.