Protestant countries are richer and less safe, Orthodox countries are safer but less rich: discuss

LanaPodesta

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The apparent paradox that Protestant-majority countries tend to be materially wealthier yet less safe, while Orthodox-majority countries are poorer yet often feel more socially secure, reveals deep-seated differences in cultural inheritance, economic development, and collective values. This tension invites a closer look at how religious traditions, even when they fade from personal belief, continue to shape national character and public life.


Economic Prosperity and the Protestant Legacy


The prosperity of Protestant countries — particularly those shaped by Calvinist or Puritan ethics (e.g., the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, the Netherlands, and the United States) — is often linked to what sociologist Max Weber called the “Protestant work ethic.” In this worldview, work is a moral calling, thrift is a virtue, and individual success may even signal divine favor. Over time, this ethic contributed to the rise of capitalism, industrial discipline, and institutional trust — all of which helped lay the foundation for long-term economic growth.


Yet this very individualism, combined with rapid industrialization and urban atomization, eroded the social fabric. As traditional religion declined in these societies, what remained was not a new form of communalism, but a vacuum — often filled by consumerism, alienation, or politicized identity. The result is an affluent but anxious modernity: cities lined with wealth and opportunity, but also with homelessness, addiction, social distrust, and what some might call spiritual poverty.


Safety and Softness in Orthodox Cultures


In contrast, Orthodox countries (e.g., Greece, Serbia, Georgia, Russia in parts, Romania) are often economically less developed — due to historical fragmentation, Ottoman domination, Soviet legacies, or lack of industrial scale. However, many visitors notice something striking: they feel safe. Children play outside at midnight. Old women sit unbothered in open cafes. Faces are soft. There is gentleness, even in austerity.


Orthodoxy, unlike Protestantism, emphasizes mystery, ritual, communal identity, and the sanctity of the present moment. It distrusts the abstract and the hyper-rational. Even when active religious observance is low, its cultural residue remains potent. Icons hang quietly above tills. People still cross themselves. Families remain tightly knit. Hospitality is a moral duty. There is a lived sense that beauty and reverence belong not to the exceptional, but to the everyday.


While these societies may lack material wealth, they often retain a cohesive moral atmosphere. Public space is treated with a kind of informal stewardship. The sacred is not locked in churches — it’s ambient. In this context, safety isn’t enforced by cameras or security staff, but by a lingering sense of the human as dignified.


The Modern Trade-off


Protestant societies traded cohesion for dynamism. Orthodox societies often traded prosperity for continuity.


Thus, the Protestant legacy leads to:


  • High GDP and innovation
  • Strong institutions, but weakened social ties
  • Freedom, but also fragmentation
  • Safety nets, but spiritual flatness

Whereas the Orthodox legacy yields:


  • Modest economies
  • Informal but thick communal networks
  • Reverence for tradition, but resistance to change
  • A gentler social atmosphere, even amid hardship

Conclusion


The contrast is not absolute — there are affluent safe Protestant places (like Norway), and chaotic poor Orthodox places (like parts of the Balkans). But the trend raises a deeper question: What do we want wealth for? If prosperity leads to isolation and alienation, and poverty coexists with human warmth, then perhaps the challenge is not just to get richer — but to do so without forgetting how to be human together.


The Protestant world may offer material ascent, but the Orthodox world may still offer something quietly essential: the spiritual memory of how to live well with others.
 
Hi LanaPodesta

Gosh, I didn't even know that there were protestant and orthodox countries. Personally, I think the richer nations practice open capitalism vs. some more fettered forms of the ideology. But honestly, I've never a known a nation that proclaimed itself as protestant or orthodox as far as the faith practices of some of its people.
 
This is fascinating. Suicide rates are becoming an issue especially in the USA. Durkheim observed that Catholic and Jewish communities had lower suicide rates vs Protestant communities. Hmmm 🧐
 
What makes the U.S. a "Protestant country" when it isn't even a Christian one?
It's a Christian country because the majority religion is Christian. It's Protestant because the majority of Christians are Protestant.
 
It's a Christian country because the majority religion is Christian. It's Protestant because the majority of Christians are Protestant.
That doesn't make it a Christian country, especially when a majority of those who claim to be Christian are not. It's arguable as to whether the U.S. ever was a Christian nation. I say it never has been.
 
That doesn't make it a Christian country, especially when a majority of those who claim to be Christian are not. It's arguable as to whether the U.S. ever was a Christian nation. I say it never has been.
well by your logic no country is of any particular religion.

When I say Protestant I mean that it has historically been a Protestant majority country, and this is a defining part of the culture of the USA.
 
well by your logic no country is of any particular religion.
Not at all. There are many Muslim countries whose laws strongly reflect Islam, even to the point of killing anyone who blasphemes Muhammad or converts to a different religion. The same in India, with its radical Hinduism and anti-conversion laws.

Some interesting info:

https://www.worlddata.info/religions/state-religions.php

When I say Protestant I mean that it has historically been a Protestant majority country, and this is a defining part of the culture of the USA.
Fair enough. But I think the caveat needs to be made that it has hardly ever really been a Christian country at all. Americans like to think that it is or was a Christian country, but I think a study of history will show that it may never have actually been one. It's a country of "cultural Christians," which isn't to be Christian at all.

Also who are you to say this?
I'm a Christian who reads and understands the Bible and what it looks like when people truly believe and follow Christ. By doing so, I know what a counterfeit looks like.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I wasn't wanting to get into any real debate. I was just wondering why you thought the U.S. was a Protestant country.
 
It's a country of "cultural Christians," which isn't to be Christian at all.
I have no idea what your definition of a Christian country is. Easter and Christmas are big cultural events. There are churches everywhere. Please don't be pedantic and suggest it's not a Christian country.
 
I'm a Christian who reads and understands the Bible and what it looks like when people truly believe and follow Christ. By doing so, I know what a counterfeit looks like.
Am I not a real Christian then since I don't belong to your denomination?
 
I have no idea what your definition of a Christian country is. Easter and Christmas are big cultural events. There are churches everywhere. Please don't be pedantic and suggest it's not a Christian country.
And look at how much evil it exports and is within it; how much evil has always been in it, even being done and supported by those who claim to be Christian. Look at how much heresy it allows and exports. Churches are no more a sign of a Christian nation than going to church makes one a Christian. It's largely cultural--Christian words and ritual void of actual meaning and belief, but it has social capital.

Am I not a real Christian then since I don't belong to your denomination?
I have no idea how that question is relevant. You seem to want to turn every discussion into pro-Orthodox/anti-Protestant.
 
It's largely cultural--Christian words and ritual void of actual meaning and belief, but it has social capital.
We're literally talking about culture. Did you not read the body of my post?
I have no idea how that question is relevant. You seem to want to turn every discussion into pro-Orthodox/anti-Protestant.
You're the one talking about who the 'real' Christians are. Am I not a real Christian? For example, whilst I do read the Bible, it's not so important that I 'understand' it on a critical level, it's more of a metaphysical practice to commune with the Trinity via the practice of reading it aloud.
 
The first thought that came to my mind was, "Christian by whose definition?" If Jesus came back today, would He look at the US and agree that it is a Christian country? I think not! There are many people that claim to be Christian that just don't do as Jesus said.

34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35 NKJV

7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.


23 “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Take a look around. Can you honestly say that we in the US live to exemplify a Christ-like life and glorify God? If you believe that, you've got blinders on.
 
Hi LanaPodesta

Maybe it would help if you'd give us a list of the nations that you consider protestant and the ones you consider orthodox. I ask because I don't know of any that meet either standard... as a nation. Sure, there are people who live within those nations that meet the qualifiers, but they are mostly mixed as far as the total population and the practice of faith they pursue. And of course, whether a nation is rich or poor, as regards the standard of living of its people is usually more a result of their political and economic practices, as far as I understand. I'm having a hard time figuring out 'why' a nation might be rich or poor based on its religious beliefs.

Have you found some sort of connection that ties religious beliefs and practices to the economic structure of a nation?
 
Take a look around. Can you honestly say that we in the US live to exemplify a Christ-like life and glorify God? If you believe that, you've got blinders on.
Still a Christian country by definition. You're being pedantic.
 
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