The Father Addresses Jesus Christ as The Creator

[SolaScriptura]

The Father Addresses Jesus Christ as The Creator

“And: In the beginning, Lord, You established the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands; they will perish, but You remain. They will all wear out like clothing; You will roll them up like a cloak, and they will be changed like a robe. But You are the same, and Your years will never end” (Hebrews 1:10-12)

This passage is continued from verse 5, where the Father begins to Address Jesus Christ:

“For to which of the angels did He say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father?” and again, “I will be to Him a Father, and He will be to Me a Son?””

In verse 10, “Lord” is the Greek “Kurie”, which is in the vocative case, used in direct address, which here is by God the Father, to Jesus Christ.

The words in verses 10-12, are from Psalm 102, where it is used for Almighty God:

“I say: “My God (’êl), do not take me in the middle of my life! Your years continue through all generations. Long ago You established the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You will endure; all of them will wear out like clothing. You will change them like a garment, and they will pass away. But You are the same, and Your years will never end.” (verses 24-27)

The fact that God the Father here clearly Addresses Jesus Christ, as THE CREATOR of the entire universe, is the strongest Testimony that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The passage in Psalm 102, is of Creation by Almighty God, and it is directly used for Jesus Christ in Hebrews, by God the Father.

In verse 6, of Hebrew 1, we have the Father Command (the Greek verb, “proskunēsatōsan”, is used in the imperative, “let Worship”) the Worship of Jesus Christ. In His continued Address to Jesus Christ, in verses 8 and 9, the Father says: “Your Throne O God is forever…therefore O God, Your God”. Clearly Two distinct Persons are GOD, the One Who is Addressing, and the Other Who is Addressed.

In Genesis 1:1 we read, “In the beginning Elohim Created the heavens and the earth”. The Hebrew “Elohim” is in the masculine plural, which cannot refer to One Person. The Bible is very clear that the Father and Jesus Christ are distinct Persons. The One “sends” and the Other is “sent”. This is not to show that the Sender is in any way “greater” than the One Sent, but to show there is a distinction between them. If, as some argue, that the God of the Bible is One Person, then the Hebrew “ʼêl” (God), which is the masculine singular would have been used, as it is done some 242 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, for The One True God. The plural is used over 2600 times. There is a reason for this, which is, there are times when the Godhead is in view, Which is Three distinct Persons, as in Creation (Genesis 1:1, etc). And, other times it is One Person in the Godhead Who is meant. A Good example is Isaiah 9:6, where “ʼêl” is used for Jesus Christ, “’êl Gibbôr” (Mighty God). And, in 10:21, the same “ʼêl” is used for the Father, Who is also called “’êl Gibbôr”.

Not only is Jesus Christ The Creator, as we have read the Testimony of this by God the Father; But, in Hebrews 2:10, we read of God the Father, also as The Creator:

“For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings”

Both “FOR whom” and “BY whom”, have the same Greek preposition, “di (dia)”, which is also used in Hebrews 1:2, “has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by (di) whom also He made the worlds”. If we are to understand 1:2, to mean, that the Father Created “through” Jesus Christ, as some argue. Then, who Created “through” the Father as in 2:10?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The Father Addresses Jesus Christ as The Creator

“And: In the beginning, Lord, You established the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands; they will perish, but You remain. They will all wear out like clothing; You will roll them up like a cloak, and they will be changed like a robe. But You are the same, and Your years will never end” (Hebrews 1:10-12)

This passage is continued from verse 5, where the Father begins to Address Jesus Christ:

“For to which of the angels did He say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father?” and again, “I will be to Him a Father, and He will be to Me a Son?””

In verse 10, “Lord” is the Greek “Kurie”, which is in the vocative case, used in direct address, which here is by God the Father, to Jesus Christ.

The words in verses 10-12, are from Psalm 102, where it is used for Almighty God:

“I say: “My God (’êl), do not take me in the middle of my life! Your years continue through all generations. Long ago You established the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You will endure; all of them will wear out like clothing. You will change them like a garment, and they will pass away. But You are the same, and Your years will never end.” (verses 24-27)

The fact that God the Father here clearly Addresses Jesus Christ, as THE CREATOR of the entire universe, is the strongest Testimony that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The passage in Psalm 102, is of Creation by Almighty God, and it is directly used for Jesus Christ in Hebrews, by God the Father.

In verse 6, of Hebrew 1, we have the Father Command (the Greek verb, “proskunēsatōsan”, is used in the imperative, “let Worship”) the Worship of Jesus Christ. In His continued Address to Jesus Christ, in verses 8 and 9, the Father says: “Your Throne O God is forever…therefore O God, Your God”. Clearly Two distinct Persons are GOD, the One Who is Addressing, and the Other Who is Addressed.

In Genesis 1:1 we read, “In the beginning Elohim Created the heavens and the earth”. The Hebrew “Elohim” is in the masculine plural, which cannot refer to One Person. The Bible is very clear that the Father and Jesus Christ are distinct Persons. The One “sends” and the Other is “sent”. This is not to show that the Sender is in any way “greater” than the One Sent, but to show there is a distinction between them. If, as some argue, that the God of the Bible is One Person, then the Hebrew “ʼêl” (God), which is the masculine singular would have been used, as it is done some 242 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, for The One True God. The plural is used over 2600 times. There is a reason for this, which is, there are times when the Godhead is in view, Which is Three distinct Persons, as in Creation (Genesis 1:1, etc). And, other times it is One Person in the Godhead Who is meant. A Good example is Isaiah 9:6, where “ʼêl” is used for Jesus Christ, “’êl Gibbôr” (Mighty God). And, in 10:21, the same “ʼêl” is used for the Father, Who is also called “’êl Gibbôr”.

Not only is Jesus Christ The Creator, as we have read the Testimony of this by God the Father; But, in Hebrews 2:10, we read of God the Father, also as The Creator:

“For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings”

Both “FOR whom” and “BY whom”, have the same Greek preposition, “di (dia)”, which is also used in Hebrews 1:2, “has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by (di) whom also He made the worlds”. If we are to understand 1:2, to mean, that the Father Created “through” Jesus Christ, as some argue. Then, who Created “through” the Father as in 2:10?

SolaScriptura, I'm puzzled where you get the phrase "through the Father" in Hebrews 2:10. Here is how the ESV translates verses 9 and 10:

Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

I believe that the Scriptures teach us that creation, salvation, and sanctification all come FROM the Father THROUGH Jesus BY the Spirit's power. That would seem to be point of the writer to the Hebrews in verse 10 in saying that Jesus is God, not that someone created anything through the Father.

 

[SolaScriptura]

SolaScriptura, I'm puzzled where you get the phrase "through the Father" in Hebrews 2:10. Here is how the ESV translates verses 9 and 10:

Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

I believe that the Scriptures teach us that creation, salvation, and sanctification all come FROM the Father THROUGH Jesus BY the Spirit's power. That would seem to be point of the writer to the Hebrews in verse 10 in saying that Jesus is God, not that someone created anything through the Father.

Hi Bruce
Thanks for your comments.
The actual Greek in verse 10, where the ESV and others, translate, "FOR whom and BY whom", is "di' hon", where the preposition "di'", is used with the accusative "hon", and "FOR" is right. However, in the second case, the Greek is, "di' hou", where it is with the genitive, "hou", and is the exact same as in Hebrews 1:2, where the ESV translates, "through whom also he created the world". Why is there this difference when used for Jesus Christ, and the Father?
Genesis 1:1, and many other places is very clear, that "In the Beginning GOD Created...", there is no hint anywhere in the Bible, that the Father Created THROUGH Jesus Christ! The Holy Spirit is also Creator, as the Father and Jesus are. So, how do you understand the Spirit's Role? Did the Father Create THROUGH Jesus and the Holy Spirit? The whole concept of the Father Creating the Universe THROUGH Jesus Christ, is purely "theological", and NOT what the Bible actually Teaches. John 1:3 is the same, where "di'" is also used with the genitive. Bible Versions like the KJV, NASB 1977, ESV, NET, Websters, etc, read, "BY".
Versions like the NLT, "God created everything through him" and GNB, etc, give the false idea that the Father, the Supreme Person in the Godhead, Created the Universe THROUGH Jesus Christ, Who is LESSER! the ESV is wrong also here, as they have "through".
The Bible has Three distinct Person in the Godhead, or Divine Nature, Who are EQUALLY called YHWH. This Awesome Name means One Who is Self-Existent, All-Powerful, and Creator. I like the LXX (Greek OT) on Exodus 3:14, where the Speaker is Jesus Christ, "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which is literally "I am the Eternal One". Which is what I AM actually means from the Hebrew root.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings SolarScriptura,

I like the LXX (Greek OT) on Exodus 3:14, where the Speaker is Jesus Christ, "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which is literally "I am the Eternal One". Which is what I AM actually means from the Hebrew root.

The LXX rendition is considered to be a poor translation from the Hebrew and the LXX does not match any of the well known English translations from the Hebrew..

Exodus 3:12-14 Brenton's Septuagint): And God spoke to Moses, saying, I will be with thee, and this shall be the sign to thee that I shall send thee forth,—when thou bringest out my people out of Egypt, then ye shall serve God in this mountain. 13 And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? 14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
The first rendition of Ehyeh is "I will be", the second is "I am" third and fourth rendition of "Ehyeh" is "THE BEING", and they omit altogether "asher".

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense, and I also like the interesting spelling of his time and the specific spelling “I wilbe”, and this also indicates that it is one verb:

Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “Ehyeh” that occurs in Exodus 3:14 and is the same that occurs in the earlier statement in v12 rendered in the KJV “I will be”, and here most other translators also give the future tense:

Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense in this context, but it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is associated with some future activity.

This future tense and future activity was to be the One God, Yahweh, God the Father acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, “I will be with thee”, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. Thus the Yahweh Name speaks about God's future activity, not existence.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings SolarScriptura,

The LXX rendition is considered to be a poor translation from the Hebrew and the LXX does not match any of the well known English translations from the Hebrew..

Exodus 3:12-14 Brenton's Septuagint): And God spoke to Moses, saying, I will be with thee, and this shall be the sign to thee that I shall send thee forth,—when thou bringest out my people out of Egypt, then ye shall serve God in this mountain. 13 And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? 14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
The first rendition of Ehyeh is "I will be", the second is "I am" third and fourth rendition of "Ehyeh" is "THE BEING", and they omit altogether "asher".

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense, and I also like the interesting spelling of his time and the specific spelling “I wilbe”, and this also indicates that it is one verb:

Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “Ehyeh” that occurs in Exodus 3:14 and is the same that occurs in the earlier statement in v12 rendered in the KJV “I will be”, and here most other translators also give the future tense:

Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense in this context, but it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is associated with some future activity.

This future tense and future activity was to be the One God, Yahweh, God the Father acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, “I will be with thee”, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. Thus the Yahweh Name speaks about God's future activity, not existence.

Kind regards
Trevor

The Hebrew verb here is, “hâyâh (’ehyeh)” which is the imperfect, “to exist, to be”. The imperfect also denotes habitual or customary action –past, present, or future tense. It also denotes incomplete action, whether in the past, present, or future. In John 1:1 we read, “was the Word...was with God...was God”. This does not mean as in our English, that refers only to the past. Here the Greek for “was”, is “ἦν”, which is the imperfect of “εἰμι”, and like the Hebrew “hâyâh”, denotes incomplete action.

It is quite wrong to conclude, as some do, that this verb is always used in the “future tense”. We have examples like Jeremiah 31:9, “They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am (ehyeh) a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.”, and Micah 7:1, “Woe is me! for I am (ehyeh) as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grape gleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the first ripe fruit.”, and, Job 11:4, “For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am (ehyeh) clean in thine eyes.”. In each case the verb “’ehyeh” is in the “present tense”.

Even the English Bible produced by The Jewish Publication Society, The Tanakh, in 1917, which is from the Hebrew, reads: “And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’”.
And, " And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’" (The Jewish Publication Society of America, The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic Text ).
In another earlier Jewish translation in English, by Dr A Benisch, it also reads: “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you” (The Jewish School and Family Bible, vol. I. 1864)
Exodus 3:14, as translated from the Dead Sea Scrolls, into English, reads: "And God said to [Moses, “I] am that I am.” And he said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ” (Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich; The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible).

The reading of the LXX is by the best Jeiwsh Hebrew scholars who lived some 100 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ. Their reading captures exactly what the Hebrew is saying, as the evidence I have shown is clear.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

It is quite wrong to conclude, as some do, that this verb is always used in the “future tense”.

I appreciate your thorough response. Despite your few examples, and I would need to check, but I assume that most of the usages of ehyeh is represented by the English future tense. My Englishman's Concordance even lists Exodus 3:14 in their list of future tense renditions. The Hebrew scholar AB Davidson gives the future tense "I will be".

This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, “I will be with thee”, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this work of delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD (Yahweh) is his name.
The future tense of God’s Name “He will be or become” has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel’s salvation.

The reading of the LXX is by the best Jeiwsh Hebrew scholars who lived some 100 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ. Their reading captures exactly what the Hebrew is saying, as the evidence I have shown is clear

If the rendition by the LXX "The Being" is the best, why do ALL the English translations ignore this aspect of the LXX and give a more correct rendition of the Hebrew.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Who Me]

The Father Addresses Jesus Christ as The Creator

Hebrews is not the only place where this happens.
John1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

I appreciate your thorough response. Despite your few examples, and I would need to check, but I assume that most of the usages of ehyeh is represented by the English future tense. My Englishman's Concordance even lists Exodus 3:14 in their list of future tense renditions. The Hebrew scholar AB Davidson gives the future tense "I will be".

This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, “I will be with thee”, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this work of delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD (Yahweh) is his name.
The future tense of God’s Name “He will be or become” has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel’s salvation.

If the rendition by the LXX "The Being" is the best, why do ALL the English translations ignore this aspect of the LXX and give a more correct rendition of the Hebrew.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor
This article from the Jewish Encyclopedia, explains the Hebrew, where it is clear that these Hebrew scholars are content with the reading in English, as found in the KJV, etc, "I am"

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

The examples that I have given from the OT cannot be ignored, where the meaning is clearly in the present, I AM.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

This article from the Jewish Encyclopedia, explains the Hebrew, where it is clear that these Hebrew scholars are content with the reading in English, as found in the KJV, etc, "I am"
The examples that I have given from the OT cannot be ignored, where the meaning is clearly in the present, I AM

Yes, we could both quote various different scholars on either side of the fence. In my earlier post I mentioned that the margin of the Revised Version has "I will be" for Exodus 3:14, and one of the supporters of this rendition could have been AB Davidson as he was one of the Hebrew scholars engaged in the production of the RV. Please note that I do not endorse all of his theology, as he was most probably a Trinitarian and also had other wrong ideas, but his Hebrew abilities have been respected and some of his Hebrew books were published in new editions until recently.

The article by AB Davidson is in the Hastings Bible Dictionary Volume 2 page 199:
"The name is connected with the Hebrew ‘hayah’, ‘to be’, in the imperfect. Now with regard to this verb, first, it does not mean ‘to be’ essentially or ontologically, but phenomenally; and secondly the imperfect has not the sense of a present (‘am’) but of a future (‘will be’). In Exodus 3:10ff when Moses demurred to go to Egypt, God assured him saying, ‘I will be with thee’. When he asked how he should name the God of their fathers to the people, he was told Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Again he was bidden say, ‘Ehyeh hath sent me unto you’. From all this it seems evident that in the view of the writer Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same: that God is Ehyeh, ‘I will be’, when speaking of Himself and ‘Yahweh’, ‘he will be’, when spoken of by others. What He will be is left unexpressed - He will be with them, helper, strengthener, deliverer."
Now this last comment by AB Davidson ties in with what I suggested that what God would do or be was that Yahweh would be their salvation.

Another additional aspect is that this could also be connected with the expression in the promises to David:
2 Samuel 7:12–16 (KJV): 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

The development of the Name Yahweh will not only be associated with what God would accomplish, that is salvation, but also associated with the development of the Messiah, Jesus, Yah's Salvation, through whom salvation will be accomplished, Yahweh will be his father, and he will be Yahweh’s son. There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

Yes, we could both quote various different scholars on either side of the fence. In my earlier post I mentioned that the margin of the Revised Version has "I will be" for Exodus 3:14, and one of the supporters of this rendition could have been AB Davidson as he was one of the Hebrew scholars engaged in the production of the RV. Please note that I do not endorse all of his theology, as he was most probably a Trinitarian and also had other wrong ideas, but his Hebrew abilities have been respected and some of his Hebrew books were published in new editions until recently.

The article by AB Davidson is in the Hastings Bible Dictionary Volume 2 page 199:
"The name is connected with the Hebrew ‘hayah’, ‘to be’, in the imperfect. Now with regard to this verb, first, it does not mean ‘to be’ essentially or ontologically, but phenomenally; and secondly the imperfect has not the sense of a present (‘am’) but of a future (‘will be’). In Exodus 3:10ff when Moses demurred to go to Egypt, God assured him saying, ‘I will be with thee’. When he asked how he should name the God of their fathers to the people, he was told Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Again he was bidden say, ‘Ehyeh hath sent me unto you’. From all this it seems evident that in the view of the writer Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same: that God is Ehyeh, ‘I will be’, when speaking of Himself and ‘Yahweh’, ‘he will be’, when spoken of by others. What He will be is left unexpressed - He will be with them, helper, strengthener, deliverer."
Now this last comment by AB Davidson ties in with what I suggested that what God would do or be was that Yahweh would be their salvation.

Another additional aspect is that this could also be connected with the expression in the promises to David:
2 Samuel 7:12–16 (KJV): 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

The development of the Name Yahweh will not only be associated with what God would accomplish, that is salvation, but also associated with the development of the Messiah, Jesus, Yah's Salvation, through whom salvation will be accomplished, Yahweh will be his father, and he will be Yahweh’s son. There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus Christ is called YHWH in the Bible, so this makes Him 100% COEQUAL with the Father.

LUKE 1:13-17

"and thou shall call his name John...and many of the sons of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah..."

Here we have the account of John the Baptist as the fore-runner of Jesus Christ. In verse 17, Luke says that "he (John) shall go before Him". Naturally, the "αυτου" (Him) refers to "the LORD their God", which clearly identifies Jesus Christ as the God of the Jews, and therefore "Yahweh".

Some, to remove the clear reference to the Deity of Jesus Christ, refer the "αυτου", not to “The Lord their God”, but to the Messiah, Jesus Christ. However, up to this time, Luke has not even mentioned the Messiah to his readers! John The Baptist’ father, Zacharias, prophesied these words concerning his son: “And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways” (Luke 1:76). There is no doubt that John the Baptist was the forerunner of YHWH.

Further, in Malachi 3:1, it is very clear, “"Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me". YHWH is the Speaker here.

Matthew 3:3; Luke 3:4; Mark 1:3:

“For this is he that was spoken of through Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make ye ready the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight”

John the Baptist is here quoting from the Prophet Isaiah, on the Coming of The Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. Isaiah 40:3 says:

“The voice of one that cries, Prepare ye in the wilderness the way of YHWH; make level in the desert a highway for our God”

Not only does John quote from the Prophet Isaiah for the Coming of Jesus Christ, but actually applies this Old Testament Prophecy, directly to Jesus Himself. In doing so, he identifies Jesus Christ, as the YHWH of this Prophecy.

Matthew 10:11; Mark 1:2; Luke 7:27:

Speaking of John the Baptist, Jesus says:

“This is he of whom it has been said, See, I send my servant before Your face, who will make ready your way before You”

Malachi 3:1 reads: “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and YHWH, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, said YHWH of hosts”

The Speaker in Malachi, is YHWH, Who here speaks of His own Coming. Jesus changes the personal pronoun, "μου" (Me), which is in the first person; and uses the personal pronoun, "σου" (you), which is in the second person. In the original it is Jehovah Himself who speaks of His own Coming, by the change of the pronoun, Jesus has applied what is true of YHWH, in His own Coming, to Himself, and says that John the Baptist is the “messenger”, who went before Him. This change would be impossible, if Jesus Christ IS not Himself YHWH. No created being could ever do this, without the highest charge of blasphemy!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

Jesus has applied what is true of YHWH, in His own Coming

You have touched upon a larger subject and moved away from what we were discussing. I am not interested in pursuing what you are now claiming, except to say that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Yahweh Name..

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

You have touched upon a larger subject and moved away from what we were discussing. I am not interested in pursuing what you are now claiming, except to say that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Yahweh Name..

Kind regards
Trevor

It does not say that "Jesus is the fulfillment of the Yahweh Name"; BUT, that Jesus Christ is clearly IDENTIFIED as Himself YHWH! The Father is a DISTINCT Person to Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and IS YHWH. The Holy Spirit is a DISTINCT Person to the Father and Jesus Christ, and IS YHWH. This means, Three Distinct Persons, Who are coequally YHWH. Which is what the Bible Teaches, 1x1x1=1. and NOT, 1+1+1=3.

I bring up the FACT that Jesus Christ is YHWH, because ONLY YHWH can be The Actual Creator! In the OP I have shown from what the Father says in ADDRESS to Jesus Christ, that He is The Creator, and therefore YHWH!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

It does not say that "Jesus is the fulfillment of the Yahweh Name"

I suggest that this is the outcome of a proper understanding of the Yahweh Name "I will be" and "He will be".

This means, Three Distinct Persons, Who are coequally YHWH. Which is what the Bible Teaches, 1x1x1=1. and NOT, 1+1+1=3.

I understand that God the Father is a distinct Being to the Being who is our Lord Jesus Christ, a human, the Son of God. After his crucifixion and resurrection Jesus has been exalted and invited to sit at God's right hand in God the Father's Throne Revelation 3:20-21.

Which is what the Bible Teaches, 1x1x1=1. and NOT, 1+1+1=3.

I find no Bible evidence for your unique, unusual mathematics.

ONLY YHWH can be The Actual Creator!

Yes, I consider that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator and I start with the following reference and Jesus' quotation, allusion and exposition of this:

Psalm 8:1–6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

I suggest that this is the outcome of a proper understanding of the Yahweh Name "I will be" and "He will be".

I understand that God the Father is a distinct Being to the Being who is our Lord Jesus Christ, a human, the Son of God. After his crucifixion and resurrection Jesus has been exalted and invited to sit at God's right hand in God the Father's Throne Revelation 3:20-21.

I find no Bible evidence for your unique, unusual mathematics.

Yes, I consider that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator and I start with the following reference and Jesus' quotation, allusion and exposition of this:

Psalm 8:1–6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Kind regards
Trevor

typically, because of your "Christology", you ignore Hebrews 1:10-12!