For those "not a sheep" . . . what next?

[Mohrb]

If I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", am to ask some about my fate, I would be one "who was made for destruction". I had no say in the matter, . . . my fate was decided from the beginning.

Here is my question:

Do you believe that I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", deserve to be sent to eternal misery in hell?

One of the most hopeful verses in the bible:

and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. 16*In this respect, indeed, I am exercising myself continually to have a consciousness of committing no offense against God and men

If all sinners are to "go to hell" ... then we would all be doomed, because if nothing else, we've inherited sin. And try as we might, in such a corrupt world, no human could maintain perfection if he weren't born into sin.

Does this mean we have a license to sin? Of course not. We should still try our best... but one person's "best" isn't the same as another person's "best" simply because each person will have a different set of circumstances and past experiences.

The worst thing I see many Christians doing is damning other people for not living up to what that christian's "best" is. This doesn't encourage people to live a better life... only makes them give up and pushes them away from God by casting pre-emtive judgement on people while representing God... which gives everyone a negative impression of God.

(Luke 17:1-4) 17 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2*It would be of more advantage to him if a millstone were suspended from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. 3*Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother commits a sin give him a rebuke, and if he repents forgive him. 4 Even if he sins seven times a day against you and he comes back to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

 

[Mohrb]

Deavonreye, I didn't read this whole thread... but I skimmed through enough to say that I'm ashamed of what some of these "Christians" are saying to you. The fact that you're sincerely asking God for help, yet don't feel as though you're a "Christian" ... doesn't mean you're "damned" at all. In fact, it may be God working through you because as you can see from the example of this thread... many "mainstream Christians" do the opposite of Christ's teachings.

"Not being sure" isn't a mark of damnation... it's called humility, and it's a very good thing.

19*Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20*idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21*envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.
22*On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23*mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24*Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus impaled the flesh together with its passions and desires.
25*If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit. 26*Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

... if a Christian tells you that God can't love you because you don't meet that Christian's standards... don't worry about him. If you do YOUR best to follow the simple principles of Galation 5:22.... that's all that's required of you. As long as you're trying YOUR best, and recognize and repent (to God, not man) of any sins you are too weak to avoid... you'll be doing better than the VAST majority of mainstream Christians out there.

... All I can suggest is that you pray and follow Christ... don't judge "Christianity" by the hypocrites that CLAIM to be Christian, yet have "become egotistical" by turning morality into a "competition."

 

[Deavonreye]

Thanks for your comments, but as I stated before, I can't be hypocritical anymore. I can't "pray", because I have no idea whom I'm even praying to. I appreciate your words, and find them refreshing over what others have stated, and the "fruits of the spirit" do have their place in society, . . . but that's hardly what christianity is all about. I can't "just believe" the rest that is required to be an actual christian.

Seriously though, thanks.

 

[Mohrb]

Thanks for your comments, but as I stated before, I can't be hypocritical anymore. I can't "pray", because I have no idea whom I'm even praying to. I appreciate your words, and find them refreshing over what others have stated, and the "fruits of the spirit" do have their place in society, . . . but that's hardly what christianity is all about. I can't "just believe" the rest that is required to be an actual christian.

Who's to say what "Christianity is all about?" ... I'd start with Jesus, personally.

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?†37*He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38*This is the greatest and first commandment. 39*The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40*On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.â€

Of course there are other laws and principles and stories to be taken into consideration... but they're all a means to an end. They're not supposed to be burdens and restrictions and inconveniences... the laws are only in place to get you to love your creator as he loves you and love your brothers as you'd have them love you. On these two laws EVERYTHING else hangs. If a law goes against these two greatest commandments, it's being misinterpreted, because these two commandments are the basis of all law.

Around the time of Christ, there were also two famous rabbis in Judaism. The Talmud (Book of rabbinical law) tells that a gentile came to Shammai (one of the two most famous sages) saying that he would convert to Judaism if Shammai could teach him the whole Torah in the time that he could stand on one foot. Shammai drove him away with a builder's measuring stick! Hillel, on the other hand, converted the gentile by telling him, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."

This story sets the example of one Rabbi "Shammai" who was very strict in the law and drove someone honestly seeking God away because of his ridiculous strictness. The other Rabbi "Hillel" understood the meaning of all the laws in the old testament exactly as Jesus stated in the above verse. Considering the date overlap, it wouldn't surprise me if Rabbi Hillel was the one who asked Jesus in the account in Matthew 22. (No proof for this though, so it may just be a coincidence)

The point is... all the hate mongered by some "Christians" is not what "Christianity" is about. 1 John 5:3 shows that God's commandments aren't supposed to be about restrictions and burdens. To those who truly love God, the commandments aren't a "burden" at all.

It's like in D&D (before that 4th edition garbage).... When they put out another rulebook... it doesn't further RESTRICT the way people play... just the opposite. More rulebooks simply provide more opportunity and diversity and overpowered psionics.

Seriously though, thanks.

::Big cheesey grin::

 

[Deavonreye]

I can't truly and honestly "love" someone that I can only "know" through the pages of a book. I'm sorry that I am unable to do that, . . . you seem like a nice person.

 

[Alabaster]

I can't truly and honestly "love" someone that I can only "know" through the pages of a book. I'm sorry that I am unable to do that, . . . you seem like a nice person.

Well, when He hits you with His overwhelming love by His Spirit through the supernatural word, either written or spoken, you will know it.

That is what everyone who knows Him has experienced. He wants you to experience Him also.

 

[Deavonreye]

Should this happen, Alabaster, . . . you'll be one of the first people I tell. :waving

 

[Alabaster]

Should this happen, Alabaster, . . . you'll be one of the first people I tell. :waving

And I will be blessed and praise God for adding you to His forever family! :heart