The Death Penalty

America's criminal system is too light on criminals. 80% of convicts are repeat offenders. Go to jail, don't have to work, three meals a day, clothes, a place to shower and sleep, a gym, library, high speed internet, Cable TV, get tougher, become a smarter criminal with more connections and get released. Some criminals call jail a vacation. Some people commit petty crimes so they can go back to jail. Is it any wonder that the United States houses 25% of the world's prison population? My wife and I in California make less money combined a year in take home pay than it costs just to house one prisoner. Work camps are the only way to go. At the first the hardest work possible. With good behavior advance to better more technical jobs that can be used after you serve your time with valid certifications and recommendations from the jail/prison. With that, the discrimination laws will have to be changed. Criminals don't want to work so this will stop many criminals. As far as the death penalty, and other harsh punishments, without these, people are more likely to commit crimes. If they still commit crimes, they knew what the punishment was going to be. It's fair isn't it? God did this. One law. Don't eat from this tree...and now all of this is happening. Currently, they can get as little as 7 years and jail for murder and get released. In a country where drug dealers get the death penalty, you feel bad? They know what the law is before they did it? Was it not an acceptable risk for them? Is there a lot of thefts in countries where they chop your hands off? I realize innocent people go to jail, people can get framed, some criminals are in bed with the law enforcement and don't go to jail. It's not perfect and never will be.

I actually support no jail at all for most offenders. Serious offenders yes, those who murder, rape, terrorize or commit crimes against children, then yes, prison.

But, too many prisoners get released from prison because America uses prison and jail time for too many crimes. If some steals a car, or robs a store, or sells drugs on a small scale, I don't see why we should throw them in prison. House arrest, work and restitution programs and community service would probably be just as effective in deterring the crimes. Too many times, we throw people in jail, often very young men, and they learn nothing more than to be life long repeat offenders.

For those who commit far more serious crimes, then yes, prison and hard work, I don't have a problem with that. I think the idea of starting off with very hard work and then allowing those with good behavior to move on to more technical jobs is a very good one. And, for the most violent offenders, those who murder or commit crimes against children, life without probation!

But, that long list that Lewis shared above of those who were in prison for crimes they did not commit... that's all the proof I need that we shouldn't but people to death unless there is no doubt at all that they committed the crime. Most juries are instructed to convict when there are no "reasonable doubts"... but that's much different than any shadow of a doubt.

When there is no doubt at all.... then I don't have a problem with it.
 
The Top 5 Most Wrongful Executions Of All-Time

With the scheduled execution of Troy Davis in Atlanta, Georgia today, the controversy surrounding the execution is what has the whole world up in arms.
Many claim that Davis is innocent due to numerous witnesses who initially claimed Davis was the murderer, now recanting their stories.
Below are other examples of executions that many in the public disagree with, and the courts may have made a mistake on.

5. Larry Griffin

Larry Griffin was executed in 1995 for the drive-by murder of Quintin Moss in St. Louis. The government’s key witness, Robert Fitzgerald, would later admit that he wasn’t sure if Griffin was even in the car for the shooting.
Griffin’s defense failed to interview key witnesses and government witnesses wavered in their testimony.
The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund would claim that Missouri executed an innocent man.

4. Leo Jones

Leo Jones was executed in Florida in 1998 for murdering a policeman. Jones’ lawyers would say that he confessed to the murder after being brutally beaten by cops who forced him to play Russian roulette while being interrogated.
Several witnesses said that Jones did not kill the police officer, and both officers who interrogated Jones were later fired for police brutality.

3. Ellis Wayne Felker

Ellis Wayne Felker was convicted for the disappearance and murder of a woman in 1981, and executed in 1996.
An autopsy would later rule out Felker as a suspect, but it was altered by a technician. After his execution, Felker’s attorney would receive a box of evidence that was unlawfully withheld by the prosecution, including DNA evidence and a confession given by another suspect.


2. Jesse Tafero

Jesse Tafero was convicted of murdering two police officers in 1976. Walter Rhodes, the government’s key witness would testify against him, claiming that Tafero was responsible for the murders; but would later recant his testimony and take full responsibility for the crimes.
Despite Rhodes testimony, Tafero was executed annd Rhodes was released from prison in 1994.

1. Cameron Todd Willingham

Cameron Todd Willingham was convicted of murdering his three daughters by burning down his house in 1991. He was later executed in 2004 in Texas.
Despite the fact that the Texas Forensic Science Commission found that the arson claims were doubtful and Willingham’s wife disputed the claim that Willinham had killed his daughters to cover up abuse allegations, Governor Rick Perry did not grant a pardon to Willingham.
 
Why wouldn't a person support a penalty that's there as a deterent. From the time we are born we're constantly reminded not to do this or that or else suffer the consequences. Gods Word is full of ways to deal with the offender/ders. Killing and murder are well defined, no i see the only reason not to support it is again, rejecting God and His way of doing things..:yes

tob



OK THEN, do it God's way. One could not be convicted of a capital crime without two witnesses that were eyewitnesses. That's how sure God wanted it to be before taking a life.

This is a good point. And, for that time and place, two eyewitnesses was the best possible way to determine the guilt of someone.

I think the Lord would want us to use the best possible way... now we have much more advanced technical forensics, even more reliable than eyewitnesses.
 
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two witnesses that were eyewitnesses.
God doesn't stipulate eye witnesses: just witnesses.


†. Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

The only requirement as regards witnesses is that they not perjure themselves.

†. Ex 20:16 . .You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

Be careful about revising God's statements; and by doing so make His laws mean things they don't say in writing.

†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of Yhvh your God that I enjoin upon you.

†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as Yhvh your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that Yhvh your God has enjoined upon you

Buen Camino
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In God's law, if one was found to have given false testimony they were to suffer the penalty that would have been due the one they accused.

I think it's also important to remember that God's Law for the land of Israel was something limited to a place and time and it's purpose has been fulfilled... fulfilled by the execution of an innocent man at that.
 
Wrongful execution



Wrongful execution is a miscarriage of justice occurring when an innocent person is put to death by capital punishment, the "death penalty." Cases of wrongful execution are cited as an argument by opponents of capital punishment.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[1]</sup>
A number of people are claimed to have been innocent victims of the death penalty.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[2]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[3]</sup> Newly-available DNA evidence has allowed the exoneration and release of more than 15 death row inmates since 1992 in the United States,<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[4]</sup> but DNA evidence is available in only a fraction of capital cases. Others have been released on the basis of weak cases against them, sometimes involving prosecutorial misconduct; resulting in acquittal at retrial, charges dropped, or innocence-based pardons. The Death Penalty Information Center (U.S.) has published a list of 8 inmates "executed but possibly innocent".<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">[5]</sup> At least 39 executions are claimed to have been carried out in the U.S. in the face of evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt.<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[6]</sup>
In the UK, reviews prompted by the Criminal Cases Review Commission have resulted in one pardon and three exonerations for people executed between 1950 and 1953 (when the execution rate in England and Wales averaged 17 per year), with compensation being paid.

United States

Cameron Todd Willingham was executed February, 2004, for murdering his three young children by arson at the family home in Corsicana, Texas. Nationally known fire investigator Gerald Hurst reviewed the case documents, including the trial transcriptions and an hour-long videotape of the aftermath of the fire scene and said in December 2004 that "There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire."<sup id="cite_ref-chicagotribune_12-0" class="reference">[12]</sup> In 2010, the Innocence Project filed a lawsuit against the State of Texas, seeking a judgment of "official oppression".<sup id="cite_ref-13" class="reference">[13]</sup>
Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney bluntly argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.<sup id="cite_ref-14" class="reference">[14]</sup>
Johnny Frank Garrett of Texas was executed February, 1992, for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March, 2004, cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months prior.<sup id="cite_ref-FBI_15-0" class="reference">[15]</sup> Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.<sup id="cite_ref-16" class="reference">[16]</sup> In both cases, black curly head hairs were found on the victims, linked to Rueda. Previously unidentified fingerprints in the nun's room were matched to Rueda. The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary The Last Word.
Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and tortuously executed via electric chair May, 1990, in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a codefendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.<sup id="cite_ref-cwc-tafero_17-0" class="reference">[17]</sup>
Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989. Subsequent investigation<sup id="cite_ref-18" class="reference">[18]</sup> cast profound doubt upon DeLuna's guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.<sup id="cite_ref-19" class="reference">[19]</sup>
Thomas and Meeks Griffin were executed in 1915 for the murder of a man involved in an interracial affair two years previously but were pardoned 94 years after execution. It is thought that they were arrested and charged because they were not wealthy enough to hire competent legal counsel and get an acquittal.<sup id="cite_ref-20" class="reference">[20]</sup>
Chipita Rodriguez was tortuously hanged in San Patricio County, Texas in 1863 for murdering a horse trader, and 122 years later, the Texas Legislature passed a resolution exonerating her.
Exonerations and pardons

Main article: List of exonerated death row inmates
Kirk Bloodsworth was the first American to be freed from death row as a result of exoneration by DNA fingerprinting. Ray Krone is the 100th American to have been sentenced to death and then later exonerated.
In the UK, reviews prompted by the Criminal Cases Review Commission have resulted in one pardon and three exonerations for people that were executed between 1950 and 1953 (when the execution rate in England and Wales averaged 17 per year), with compensation being paid. Timothy Evans was granted a posthumous free pardon in 1966. Mahmood Hussein Mattan was convicted in 1952 and was the last person to be hanged in Cardiff, Wales, but had his conviction quashed in 1998. George Kelly was hanged at Liverpool in 1950, but had his conviction quashed by the Court of Appeal in June 2003.<sup id="cite_ref-21" class="reference">[21]</sup> Derek Bentley had his conviction quashed in 1998 with the appeal trial judge, Lord Bingham, noting that the original trial judge, Lord Goddard, had denied the defendant "the fair trial which is the birthright of every British citizen."
Colin Campbell Ross (1892 — 1922) was an Australian wine-bar owner executed for the rape and murder of a child which became known as The Gun Alley Murder, despite there being evidence that he was innocent. Following his execution, efforts were made to clear his name, and in the 1990s old evidence was re-examined with modern forensic techniques which supported the view that Ross was innocent. In 2006 an appeal for mercy was made to Victoria's Chief Justice and on 27 May 2008, the Victorian government pardoned Ross in what is believed to be an Australian legal first.<sup id="cite_ref-22" class="reference">[22]</sup>
U.S. Mental health controversy

There has been much debate about the justification of imposing capital punishment on individuals who have been diagnosed with mental retardation. Some have argued that the execution of people with mental retardation constitutes cruel and unusual punishment as it pertains to the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution.<sup id="cite_ref-ReferenceA_23-0" class="reference">[23]</sup> And while the U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted cruel and unusual punishment to include those that fail to take into account the defendant’s degree of criminal culpability, it has not determined that executing the mentally retarded constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.
This issue was addressed in the case of Penry v. Lynaugh, in which Johnny Paul Penry had filed a habeas corpus petition in federal district court that claimed his death sentence should be vacated because it violated his Eighth Amendment rights. His reasoning was that he suffered from mental retardation, and numerous psychologists had confirmed this to be factual, indicating that his IQ ranged from 50 to 63 and that he possessed the mental abilities of a six and a half-year-old.<sup id="cite_ref-ReferenceA_23-1" class="reference">[23]</sup> Penry’s petition was denied by the district court, whose decision was subsequently affirmed by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. Penry would later appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, who ultimately ruled in a five-to-four decision that the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution did not categorically prohibit the execution of persons with mental retardation. Following the 1989 Penry ruling, sixteen states as well as the federal government passed legislation that banned the execution of offenders with mental retardation.<sup id="cite_ref-ReferenceA_23-2" class="reference">[23]</sup>
Penry was overruled by Atkins v. Virginia.
 
Save the DP for the really bad guys the Bundy type.... DNA should be used to release the wrongfully convicted.
 
I think the Lord would want us to use the best possible way... now we have much more advanced technical forensics, even more reliable than eyewitnesses.


I agree. DNA has been a great help in finding the truth of guilt and innocences.
 
Joe Citizen may have been wrongfully convicted of killing Sally but he got away with killing George.
 
We need men, men willing to be real fathers in the homes.
 
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I wonder if anybody hereabouts proficient in biblical studies has ever noticed that the laws of God stipulate neither jails nor prisons? In other words: penal systems are a form of punishment contrary to God's expressed wishes as regards criminal justice.

†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of Yhvh your God that I enjoin upon you.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as Yhvh your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that Yhvh your God has enjoined upon you<o:p></o:p>

Buen Camino
/
 
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I wonder if anybody hereabouts proficient in biblical studies has ever noticed that the laws of God stipulate neither jails nor prisons? In other words: penal systems are a form of punishment contrary to God's expressed wishes as regards criminal justice.

†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of Yhvh your God that I enjoin upon you.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as Yhvh your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that Yhvh your God has enjoined upon you<o:p></o:p>

Buen Camino
/
No it does not speak about prisons unless Paul and others were being locked up. Philadelphia had the first penal system in the world Eastern State, and it is still standing not far from me. It is open for tours now even Al Capone spent time there' at Eastern State
http://www.easternstate.org/
 
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I think it's also important to remember that God's Law for the land of Israel was something limited to a place and time
The laws of God as per the Old Testament apply to everyone everywhere for all time; not just to the people of Israel for a limited time.


†. Rom 3:19 . . Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Buen Camino
/
 
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Speaking of capital punishment; the headline of the Thursday, July 27, 2013 daily edition of the Oregonian newspaper read:

A Pivotal Day For Gay Marriage

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p< font O:p<>But how does God feel about gay marriage?

†. Lev 20:13 . . If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

America is waxing more and more decadent. Ever since the end of WW2, it's morals, and its scruples, have been on a steady decline. Well; all I can say is: don't be too sure that the USSR's dissolution can't happen here.

†. Ps 9:17 . .The wicked shall be turned into hell; and all the nations that forget God.

Former US President John F. Kennedy once commented in a speech: Every man woman and child is under a nuclear sword of Damocles, hanging by the slenderest thread, capable of being cut at any moment by accident, miscalculation, or by madness.

Does anyone these days seriously doubt the truth of his statement?

Buen Camino
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</O:p<>
 
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[MENTION=65338]Webers_Home[/MENTION]. so we should be killing the wealthy who steal and take from the poor? after all god judged isreal for that.
 

Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy were laws specifically for Israel. They don't apply to today, especially since many of the specific laws are very outdated. The universal morals behind the laws are still in use, however.

I'm not saying that capital punishment is outdated, but it doesn't appear to work in the US today.
 
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