What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Search results

Search the forum
  1. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    But what is the desired result - it is Christ being born in a human lineage. And how will this desired result be yielded - by God determining/choosing one lineage from among many and continuing through that line, working out this result. Then Why does God have to know which line would yield this...
  2. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    I would object to that too. And I don't think calvinism holds God to have caused all that man does (some who claim to be calvinists might though). What you and I both are objecting to, is the taking away of human responsibility and accountability - which denying freewill seems to do. But what...
  3. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Your presentation of God's election seems to be purely dependent on God's foreknowledge alone, not allowing for any consequent active predetermination where He has influence over the outcome. You see God as a passive spectator in watching a race or in watching a lineage unfold, where there is no...
  4. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    It would follow that all Israel would be saved only IF God had chosen all Israel to be His children of Promise - which is what I've been showing isn't the case as defended by Paul in Rom 9:6-8.
  5. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    While I do agree with you on Salvation being only by the grace of God, I still need clarification if that's the same as you agreeing from Rom 11:5-6 that Election too is on the basis of the grace of God alone and not on the works of men? Is there some significant difference between "of grace"...
  6. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    You're speculating right there that in my discussion, I am taking verses out of context and am applying them to foreign concepts - when we are yet to even conclude on the discussion. What if at the end of the discussion you find yourself to have misinterpreted these passages and its context? It...
  7. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    That's quite a lot of presumption, given that we have reached no conclusion yet in our discussion. I would rather we simply discuss the Scriptural texts than speculate on what motives the other is operating by and towards. ( Since this is text and we can never discern the tone and intent of one...
  8. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Do you see that Paul addresses this very point of yours in the same passages, therein reaffirming that we are indeed in the right context of predetermined election unto salvation. Paul states Rom 9:3 just as you do, and then pre-empts the very same objection that you have - namely, if the...
  9. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Let me assure you, setting up an illustration with the word "invite" does not make it the very basis. The illustration rests on my predestining one group of people to be where I want them, while choosing not to do any predestining at all concerning the rest - you could re-read my post to see if...
  10. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    The "You" were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13), who is the guarantee of inheritance for the "Us" (Eph 1:14) and not the "You" ? Shouldn't we simply interpret it interchangeably until specifically and explicitly stated that there are 2 distinct groups being referred to?
  11. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    There is a good possibility Calvin might have concluded wrongly on double predestination - given that I myself read only single predestination from Scriptures. But then again, you might believe I too have concluded wrongly on this. Anyway, Logic can always be proven to be wrong if it is - or...
  12. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Why so? If I have purposed to throw a destination party this weekend at a far-off place, and I invite all whom I know to come there but by arranging for their own means of transport - then without any contemplation at all I already know there is the possibility that one might be deterred from...
  13. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    I suppose this is an assumption you carry over from an earlier discussion with a calvinist elsewhere. Neither the text nor consequently I hold that Rom 9:9-13 talks about individual salvation. It very clearly is an explanation of Paul's statement in Rom 9:8 - not the children of flesh but the...
  14. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Romans 9:3 begins this topic and it is about salvation. In Romans 9:6, he defends the jews being accursed from Christ as still not the failure of God's word to them. He goes on to elaborate on this defense through the next couple of chapters. Paul begins explaining that they are not all Israel...
  15. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    It seems there has been a misunderstanding. When I read the phrases "satan Believes In Jesus", "John 3:16", "does not save" - the context does seem to be that of "believing in Christ unto salvation". And while you have showed that such a "believing" is not sufficient to save, my end-objective...
  16. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Yes, I understand your position. It's just that you've based it on defining the phrasal words "to have faith in Christ" and "to believe in Christ" as 2 different concepts, while linguistically they mean exactly the same. If you have any other basis for such a distinction apart from just the...
  17. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    For it to be monergistic, there cannot be any other causative contribution apart from God alone. So if you set up man's seeking God as a necessary cause, no matter how small it is in itself, it still becomes synergistic and not monergistic. "Other than this" is all the difference between the two...
  18. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Given that multiple other topics are being discussed in this same thread, it just might seem redundant to get stuck on word definitions - but I believe this contributes as one of the core root differences between the two belief systems. If I may summarize the points of discussion, it may bring...
  19. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    I'd like to first state my motivations behind this line of discussion. I've noticed that whenever 2 people are unable to agree upon the same belief, it's usually due to differences in the 3Ls - Language, Logic or Laws (root First Premises). The first 2 Ls should be technically easy to sort out...
  20. I

    Predestination and Calvinism

    Without a comprehensive explanation of what we each mean by certain words, and how we connect them to each other, we'd only end up prooftexting. For example: without knowing what you mean by the phrase "given the faith to believe", and considering that faith is a gift of God alone(Eph 2:8), I...
Back
Top