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Bible Study â€œTrial By Graceâ€

netchaplain

Member
“And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee; for My strength is made perfect in weakness….Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then am I strong†(2 Cor 12:9, 10).

The thorn in the flesh was a heavy trial for Paul. It was not sent because of personal failure, but because of the abundance of revelation given to him—it was a preventative. There was danger lest the flesh should boast, and God gives him a thorn. Paul prayed thrice for its removal. The Father tells him that His grace is sufficient, there is no need to remove it, and moreover his infirmity was but an occasion for the power of Christ to rest upon him. Then he glories in that which he has prayed to be taken away. The Lord Jesus was exalted and Paul was content. Here is the “moral fruit,†the Father’s object in sending the thorn: no failure and needed chastening here, but a lesson of grace to an honored servant of Christ.

The trials of saints, as they come from the Father, are generally, if not always, immediately connected with the position grace gives. The Father in His sovereignty calls His saints to fill various places of service, some to rule and authority. Some to teaching or preaching, others may only know the place of suffering and weeping. Nevertheless all are for the carrying out of one great purpose, the accomplishment of one will, a whole in which each saint however humble has his part.

The Father has a niche in His temple for each, a place assigned by grace. It is there each is tested. But if grace appoints the place, it is always there to maintain saints in it. Often the trial is allowed through our want of faith to hide the grace, and then we complain and murmur. “But God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it†(1 Cor 10:13). He always provides the necessary grace.

There are other trials which have their root in unfaithfulness. The Father permits such, but does not directly send them, and surely controls and guides to a gracious result, for His mercy endureth forever. Such trials become rods in His child-training hand. But when He sends trials to a faithful saint it is for the purpose of proving faith, which is more precious that of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, and of giving lessons in the school of faith.

The fruitful branch is purged that it may bring forth more fruit. More and better fruit is the Father’s object. Hidden things may be in the heart of the faithful, unknown and therefore unjudged. The trial is sent to disclose the hidden thing that it may be purged away. Not all trials are chastenings. We should gravely err if we judged every suffering saint to be under discipline through failure. Where there is faithfulness we often see what appears to be heaviest trials but in truth it is for the display of the sustaining power of grace that others may see and learn.
–R Beacon
 
Thank you, NetChaplain, for presenting this. Very timely reminder.

There are many who too quickly judge others with infirmities/illnesses, proclaiming those who are challenged as being unfaithful sinners.

God bless you!
 
Thank you, NetChaplain, for presenting this. Very timely reminder.

There are many who too quickly judge others with infirmities/illnesses, proclaiming those who are challenged as being unfaithful sinners.

God bless you!
Thank you too AD for your reply!
 
Indeed. Very timely. Praise the Lord. If the Lord's strength is in weakness, then I must make Him Very strong, lol. I am unworthy and it seems as if I fail fail fail. But! I refuse to wuit cling cling cling to the Lord. Yet though he slay me will I trust Him.

All trials are not chastenings. Some are tests of faith, some are answers to prayers. Be very sure brothers and sisters what you pray for. Do you pray for more faith? More Patience? Careful. You might get it. Bear in mind what it is that grows faith and patience. You'll have to thank the Lord for His answering your prayer!! lol.

Oh, I vote we give this man his own forum. You build me up Sir. I praise the Lord for your presence here on our board.

I too am encourage when others share with me the encouragement they receive from the materials I post. Thanks for your reply and the vote of confidence. I have been pondering the possibility of a site that contains these dispensational teachings (of which there is an exhaustive amount), along with them being accessible in audio form (which I also do).
 
But when He sends trials to a faithful saint it is for the purpose of proving faith, which is more precious that of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, and of giving lessons in the school of faith.

Just for my notes, the scripture where God sends trials to prove faith, and what is learned from these lessons of the school of faith? I can only find scripture for trying the faith you have, and I am having a hard time finding the scripture where God is the one sending them. Thank you.


others may only know the place of suffering and weeping

Why would others only know the place of suffering and Weeping?

If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.

1Pe 3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Pro 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
Pro 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Would these be the disobedient ones that won't obey God?

Where there is faithfulness we often see what appears to be heaviest trials but in truth it is for the display of the sustaining power of grace that others may see and learn.

Scripture where being obedient and faithful to God brings the "Heaviest" trials. I see the exact opposite in scripture. Just for my notes please.

Great study, I just need these for my notes, and all good.

Mike.
 
Just for my notes, the scripture where God sends trials to prove faith, and what is learned from these lessons of the school of faith? I can only find scripture for trying the faith you have, and I am having a hard time finding the scripture where God is the one sending them. Thank you.

Hi Mike - To me there is no significant differentiation between God allowing or initiating a trial to the believer because the purpose and outcome is the same--growth in faith and glorifying God, such as Job's hardship.
 
Scripture where being obedient and faithful to God brings the "Heaviest" trials. I see the exact opposite in scripture. Just for my notes please.

Great study, I just need these for my notes, and all good.

God uses trials in various ways according to the believer He is conforming, which can result in producing greater growth from greater trials.
 
I have been pondering the possibility of a site that contains these dispensational teachings (of which there is an exhaustive amount), along with them being accessible in audio form (which I also do).


If you decide to do this, please be sure to let all of us know. :)

Blessings to you and yours
 
Even though Jesus was God's Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. Hebrews 5:8 NLT
 
Even though Jesus was God's Son, He learned obedience from the things He suffered. Hebrews 5:8 NLT
1. Even though Jesus was God's Son = stresses Deity, but at the same time the role of Christ as "Son of Man".

2. He learned obedience = doesn't mean He had to learn to obey, for that would mean He had sinned; it means he actively sought out the path of obedience, and then unfailingly walked therein.

3. from the things He suffered. = concerned the entire course of His Life, but more so the Cross.
 
Even though Jesus was God's Son, He learned obedience from the things He suffered. Hebrews 5:8 NLT
1. Even though Jesus was God's Son = stresses Deity, but at the same time the role of Christ as "Son of Man".

2. He learned obedience = doesn't mean He had to learn to obey, for that would mean He had sinned; it means he actively sought out the path of obedience, and then unfailingly walked therein.

3. from the things He suffered. = concerned the entire course of His Life, but more so the Cross.
These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold--though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world. 1 Peter 1:7 NLT

All faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly. Is our Faith really in the Cross or not? This life is a dress rehearsal for Eternity.
 
This is the Bible Study forum; debating is not allowed in this section. Furthermore, let's keep the personal attacks to ourselves.

Hopefully a respectful discussion in the spirit of a Bible study can continue. :)
 
A Pastor preaching a message I was at attendance to hear talked about his wife who had a serious medical condition that made her head constantly hurt. This man had taken her to many doctors and they believed and prayed to no avail. This continued to ten years and so the man came up with this doctrine. He said that it was God who was allowing his wife to go through this terrible pain as a refining fire. Then He tells God's children (Us) that our God often times can put us through this "Pain" to perfect us. It was not the devil, and nothing we can do faith wise to get out but just go through the trail God has set before us. It was the Will of God, and explained why his wife was in so much pain all those years.

These were ministers that ministered in Israel and came back to the states to be a part of our Church.

It was but a month after this mans sermon that they found a doctor who knew about this rare condition and turns out it was very curable. This Pastor took his wife to get help, when He just confessed among all of us that it was God's will she go through this pain all these years. Funny how God's will changes when we can walk in the natural and see help. This man was a hypocrite and went to take his wife to get well and get out of God's will by not suffering anymore.

The man himself lied on God, and did not follow what He taught. This cost him his health while the wife Got better and it was very short that he could not longer preach. Judgment happened that fast to him for his hypocrisy and lying on God.

If it is the will of God you be sick, suffer, then you best stay in God's will if you believe that. God does not change his will just because you find something in the natural that takes the pain away God is using to build your faith and character. You better stay nice and sick and get that faith and character God wants you to have.

It is very serious things in what we tell the Children of God. They are God's children whom he loves and cares for. We need to check our facts and if scriptures don't line up with things we teach then we better get them right. I am always correctable and always examine scriptures because of this. I saw what happened to this Pastor who lied on God because of his wife and their frustration.

I am sorry if I came across harsh. I did not want to offended anyone but put the scripture up in an attempt to make people think about what we say concerning our Good, good God. I came across wrong and jumped on my soap box. I am staying out of this thread as it's a sore spot with me and need to walk in the spirit of love. I thank a person here who came and brought this to my attention. Thank you for your insight Edward.

Mike.
 
A Pastor preaching a message I was at attendance to hear talked about his wife who had a serious medical condition that made her head constantly hurt. This man had taken her to many doctors and they believed and prayed to no avail. This continued to ten years and so the man came up with this doctrine. He said that it was God who was allowing his wife to go through this terrible pain as a refining fire. Then He tells God's children (Us) that our God often times can put us through this "Pain" to perfect us. It was not the devil, and nothing we can do faith wise to get out but just go through the trail God has set before us. It was the Will of God, and explained why his wife was in so much pain all those years.

These were ministers that ministered in Israel and came back to the states to be a part of our Church.

It was but a month after this mans sermon that they found a doctor who knew about this rare condition and turns out it was very curable. This Pastor took his wife to get help, when He just confessed among all of us that it was God's will she go through this pain all these years. Funny how God's will changes when we can walk in the natural and see help. This man was a hypocrite and went to take his wife to get well and get out of God's will by not suffering anymore.

The man himself lied on God, and did not follow what He taught. This cost him his health while the wife Got better and it was very short that he could not longer preach. Judgment happened that fast to him for his hypocrisy and lying on God.

If it is the will of God you be sick, suffer, then you best stay in God's will if you believe that. God does not change his will just because you find something in the natural that takes the pain away God is using to build your faith and character. You better stay nice and sick and get that faith and character God wants you to have.

It is very serious things in what we tell the Children of God. They are God's children whom he loves and cares for. We need to check our facts and if scriptures don't line up with things we teach then we better get them right. I am always correctable and always examine scriptures because of this. I saw what happened to this Pastor who lied on God because of his wife and their frustration.

I am sorry if I came across harsh. I did not want to offended anyone but put the scripture up in an attempt to make people think about what we say concerning our Good, good God. I came across wrong and jumped on my soap box. I am staying out of this thread as it's a sore spot with me and need to walk in the spirit of love. I thank a person here who came and brought this to my attention. Thank you for your insight Edward.

Mike.

Just a question for you. Before we go, how does one relate to Gen. 6:3 STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT for the 120 years? (and we have been around many more years than that teaching the same old stuff)

--Elijah
 
Just a question for you. Before we go, how does one relate to Gen. 6:3 STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT for the 120 years? (and we have been around many more years than that teaching the same old stuff)


I don't really understand the question. My point was that I have seen men who preach teaching God's children that God sends trials and God is mysterious not fair well. It's dangerous to say things like this or blame God for things. God is our help and none of his plans for us included being miserable.

If we examine the Apostles, Paul being a good case of suffering on the Lord's behalf. Paul walked away from everything, prison, being stoned, ship wreak, snake to the hand. Paul said God is faithful and will deliver you from unreasonable and wicked men. Paul said this after having to deal with these type of men it seems on a daily basis. Nothing that happened to Paul convinced him that God does not supply or fail to protect. Paul at the end said I must offer myself up, and He also said I am caught up on deciding to be with the Lord or stay with you folks for a bit longer. Paul had a choice when it was time to go home.

The teaching today says God is mysterious, God picks some to suffer as the original OP suggested, and you just never know what God is going to do. Suffering produces some type of faith or some nonsense like that. There is enough going on in this Earth that can cause suffering, how we come through that is important to the Lord. It shows if we have patience and it shows if we trust God. Time tries trust.......(Not scripture but it seems true) In that we are promoted, as God can't really mightily use someone that is constantly ruled by fear such as Job.

That was my point.

Mike.
 
Just a question for you. Before we go, how does one relate to Gen. 6:3 STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT for the 120 years? (and we have been around many more years than that teaching the same old stuff)


I don't really understand the question. My point was that I have seen men who preach teaching God's children that God sends trials and God is mysterious not fair well. It's dangerous to say things like this or blame God for things. God is our help and none of his plans for us included being miserable.

If we examine the Apostles, Paul being a good case of suffering on the Lord's behalf. Paul walked away from everything, prison, being stoned, ship wreak, snake to the hand. Paul said God is faithful and will deliver you from unreasonable and wicked men. Paul said this after having to deal with these type of men it seems on a daily basis. Nothing that happened to Paul convinced him that God does not supply or fail to protect. Paul at the end said I must offer myself up, and He also said I am caught up on deciding to be with the Lord or stay with you folks for a bit longer. Paul had a choice when it was time to go home.

The teaching today says God is mysterious, God picks some to suffer as the original OP suggested, and you just never know what God is going to do. Suffering produces some type of faith or some nonsense like that. There is enough going on in this Earth that can cause suffering, how we come through that is important to the Lord. It shows if we have patience and it shows if we trust God. Time tries trust.......(Not scripture but it seems true) In that we are promoted, as God can't really mightily use someone that is constantly ruled by fear such as Job.

That was my point.

Mike.

My point was for 120 years of the 'Holy Spirits was striving' while Noah was 'working' to build the Ark and only several men heard Him! And how different is it today? Rev. 17:1-5 (+ Eccl. 3:15)

But 'i' think that I will break/away from this thread!;)

--Elijah
 
God picks some to suffer as the original OP suggested, and you just never know what God is going to do.
That was my point.
Mike.

Hi Mike and I hope I haven't been too harsh in any of my replies to you because I wish you and all His best.

I can relate to your comprehension concerning that which Scripture does reveal to us about God, which helps us when we understand certain things about Him that He wants us to know. I do believe He uses everyone in different ways (doesn't pick just some but picks all believers in whatever degree He personally adjust to the individual) but we must remember that concerning many of His ways they are, "past finding out" (Rom 11:33).

"His ways past finding out." -- "not the methods and course of His providence, though His way in this respect is often in the deep, His footsteps are not to be known, discerned, and traced, by finite creatures; but rather the goings forth and steps of His wisdom from everlasting, in His purposes and decrees, council and covenant, which are higher than the ways of men, even as the heavens are higher than the earth." J Gill

God's blessings to your Family!
 
Hi Mike and I hope I haven't been too harsh in any of my replies to you because I wish you and all His best.

I can relate to your comprehension concerning that which Scripture does reveal to us about God, which helps us when we understand certain things about Him that He wants us to know.

Well, I was a bit harsh, you hit my soapbox so to speak. One thing with God is doing his plan, staying on His Path. Like Paul who said I have run my race. During that race, we can't see around the bend, or know what is always around that corning, but we can be assured that God's path is the blessed path. All the Apostles made it through and completed the work God gave them to do. That is a pretty big feat, considering that staying alive at that time was a major accomplishment. We leave this earth when our work is done, not a moment sooner.

When Pastoring a Church, it was hard to get around that suffering Doctrine out there, and I also had to deal with the generational curse doctrine. Two very bad doctrines that I stepped into which had people in bondage. If it's God's will that you suffer, then who you get help from? The thought is that God just gives you barely enough to pull along day by day. The generational curse doctrine, there might be something you missed in your house that is "Possessed" or some past ancestor sin you forgot to ask to be broken. It possibly could not be you not following the Word and doing what your suppose to do.

As I said, the Pastor that preached that message about God being a refining fire and was hurting his wife by his divine will for ten years was a bit much for me. If you really believe that, then fine. The Pastor preached that and believed that until they found a doctor that could help, then suddenly it was not God's will anymore. He use to teach faith until the issue with his wife, then they switched and gave up with their refining fire doctrine. Following the Holy Spirit, and doing what God said do, staying in his will should be the top important thing in any believers life. If it is God's will that we suffer to build some faith and character, then we need to suffer the best we can to make sure God's will is done. If it's not the will of God, then we need to resist firmly standing on the Word and not move until we get victory.

Thank you for responding... Sorry about being so harsh.

Mike.
 
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