‘Social Justice’ is pure folly

[Drew]

No, it isn't misleading to say the government takes your money - it is completely accurate. Try not paying your taxes on April 15th. The government will show up with armed agents and sieze your property.

I have already addressed this.

When you freely vote for a government, you are implicitly entering into a contract where you agree to pay taxes. So you are not being "forced" to pay taxes, you are simply being called to account to an entirely voluntary commitment you made when you freely, yes freely, voted in the government and its taxation platform.

To say that helping the poor through charaities is less efficient than government doing it is laughable.

No it is not.

Just try to imagine what would happen if our giving to the poor were mediated by hundreds, nay thousands, of independent charities.

Absolute chaos would result as well as gross inefficiency. You need some central organizing element to govern the whole thing.

The difference is "free will".

I will not tire of stating the obvious - you vote to be taxed. Did someone put a gun to your head at the ballot box? Of course not. When people in society vote for a taxation program that re-distributes wealth from the rich to the poor, they are, whether they know it or not, advancing the kingdom of God.

Who is the gospel "good news" for? Jesus says it is good news for the poor.

It's a pity you're so wedded to the failed ideology that you refuse to accept fact, much less truth.

The real pity is your refusal to deal with the truth that taxation is not "forced" - it is an agreement freely entered into by two parties.

 

[handy]

Not exactly, Drew. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in America, one can vote or not vote. There are American citizens that have never once in their entire lives voted.

But, they sure do have to pay taxes.

Voting is a right that can be exercised or not.

Taxes, paying them is the law. Not doing so will land you in a heap of trouble.

 

[Pard]

Peter Schiffs father has never paid taxes a day in his life. He never voted for taxes (he votes for 3rd parties who will never win). He had people with guns come and take his property from him... he is rich, so it didn't matter really. The IRS has occasionally seized all the assets in his bank accounts. He has been in a lawsuit with the federal government for longer than I have been alive...

 

[sherri2]

re the OP. I always found it to be a church marketing tool. Join us in these giving projects that make this church look good.

It got up my nose.

How about just allowing us to be called to be christians and supporting us in that without trying to milk it.

 

[kiwimac]

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord."

1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you.
2 Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!
4 Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

 

[Drew]

With all due respect, taxation is something you ask for. You vote for it. You can vote for no taxation if you like - just see how this would work out for you. A society needs to be governed. With no government, the powerful and the evil will always put the screws to the weak and the poor. We Christians, of all people, should know this, by virtue of our belief that evil that is rampant in an unregenerated world.

So when we all agree (or 99.999 % of us) that we need a government to run and pay for certain services and infrastructure (police, military, roads, etc), how do you think this is going to be paid for? Through rubbing Aladdin's lamp and asking the genie to take care of it?

No. It is paid for, and has to be paid for, by the people through taxes. So when you vote for a certain party you are freely committing to their proposed programme of taxes. This is not a difficult concept people - where do you get this idea that someone is "stealing your money"? So maybe your party does not win, or maybe you never use the roads and resent having to pay for them.

Well, we live in a society, people - we do not live on the top of a mountain. if you want to be free of being of being "forced" to pay taxes for things you do not approve of, I suggest you buy your tins of food, buy ammo for your guns, and head for the hills.

The point is that by virtue of even participating in a society, you have to agree to "play by the rules". And if you are going to be governed, sometimes this means that sometimes your tax money is used in a manner you do not like. Fine - then advocate for a change. But, please, don't tell us that someone is "forcing" you to give up your money. You are in a social contract - and that contains obligations to get the benefits.

Unless you want live in a shack in Montana, you need to face the fact that "taxes" are something you ask for and need to pay in order to enjoy the benefits of living in an inter-connected society.

When the taxman shows up at your door and demands payment, he is not "forcing" you to do anything - he is simply demanding that you follow through on your own freely undertaken commitment to participate in a society.

 

[jasoncran]

drew , i didnt vote for the formation of the irs, nor the very taxes that are imposed by the state of florida. the house and respective senators did.

if i had a say there would be no lotto, or reduction of taxes on property taxes without ensuring that schools wouldnt close. (i did inadverntely vote that one)

and until 2006, i didnt vote. and btw in america all these wonderful politicians often dont pay taxes and get away with it!

i will also ask you drew please google habitat for humanity, and its a program started by the former president jimmy carter, it an good program of charitable of house building as it works on all donations (labor), the potential buyer must have some income and do some set hours of work on his future house. It requires that one pay a minumium of set amount per month and also that one cant sell the house till after 20 yrs without penalty.

that is the best way to help someone.

so the pastor should be also working for the govt then as he or she should be paid by what? taxes?

 

[Drew]

drew , i didnt vote for the formation of the irs, nor the very taxes that are imposed by the state of florida. the house and respective senators did.

You did vote - you voted for the politicians who, in turn, acted on their implicit contract with the voters - to tax.

Let me try one more time. When you enter the ballot box, you make a decision to support a particular party. That party almost certainly has a clearly stated position on taxation - what they intend to do, or not do, in relation to imposing taxes.

So please - do not tell us that "taxation" is forced! It is not. You vote for a certain party and when that party passes tax laws, they are only doing what you, the voter, asked them to.

i will also ask you drew please google habitat for humanity,.....that is the best way to help someone.

I am all in favour of habitat for humanity.

But please, try to understand that when we tax the rich and "re-distribute" the money to the poor, this is indeed a "kingdom of God" act, whether done by Christians or not. It shows that the society as a whole has agreed to "care for the least of these".

Why any Christian would see such a thing as anything but in perfect line with the gospel imperative is a deep mystery.

 

[jasoncran]

ah, but i was decieved and amemdment one isnt for a tax but to reduce it! as in property tax decrease.

agian you come across to me as the chruch is the state.

should i tithe to the us govt and support ungodly adoptions when that is agianst the bible?

many on the healthcare issue either wanted socialised medicine or the to reform to current system, instead we got less and paid more for it!
my insurance will increase by 100 a month, yet my dad who is on medicare gets no decrease in payment amounts. go figure.