Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Growth “Accepted In The Beloved”

netchaplain

Member
The names of the twelve tribes engraved on precious stones were borne both on the shoulders and on the breast of Israel’s high priest (Ex 28:9-12, 15-29). How encouraging and consolatory it is for the tried, tempted and buffeted believer to remember that the Father only sees him on the heart of His Beloved—they are arrayed in divine comeliness.

The world cannot see them thus; but their Father does, and this makes all the difference. Men, in looking at the Father’s children see only their blots and blemishes. They have no ability whatever to see further, and as a consequence, their judgment is wrong—always one-sided. They cannot see the sparkling jewels, bearing the names of the Father’s redeemed, engraved by the hand of changeless love.

True, it is that the believer should be most careful not to furnish the men of the world with any just occasion to speak reproachfully (1Tim 5:14). They should seek, “that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men” (1Pet 2:15). If only they entered, by the Holy Spirit, into the comeliness in which they ever shine, in the Father’s vision, it would assuredly lead to a walk of practical holiness, moral purity, and elevation before the eyes of men. But thank God, our judgement is not with men, but with the Father; and He graciously shows us our great High Priest, bearing our judgment on His heart before the Father continually.

This imparts deep and settled peace—a peace which nothing can shake. We may have to confess and mourn over our constant failures and short-comings; the eye may, at times, be so dimmed with the tears of a genuine contrition as to be but little able to catch the luster of the precious stones on which our names are engraved, yet there they are all the while. Our Father sees them, and that is sufficient. He is glorified by their brightness—a brightness not of our attaining, but of His imparting. We had naught save darkness, dullness and deformity. He has imparted brightness, luster and beauty.

The golden plate on the high priest’s forehead was the type of the essential holiness of the Lord Jesus Christ. “It shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord” (Exo 28:38). What rest for the heart amid all the fluctuations of one’s experience! Our High Priest is “always” in the presence of the Father for us. We are represented by, and accepted in, Him. His holiness is ours. The more deeply we become acquainted with our own personal vileness and infirmity, the more we enter into the humiliating truth that in us “dwelleth no good thing” (Rom 7:18), the more fervently shall we bless our Father for the soul-sustaining truth contained in these words, “It shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord.”

The more clearly we enter, by faith, into objective truth, or what is true of us in our risen High Priest, the deeper, more experiential and practical will be the subjective growth in us, and the more complete will be the manifestation of the moral effect in our life and character. “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee: because he trusteth in Thee.” “To the praise of the glory of His grace, through which He hath made us accepted in the Beloved” (Isa 26:3; Eph 1:6).

- C H Mackintosh
 
This imparts deep and settled peace—a peace which nothing can shake. We may have to confess and mourn over our constant failures and short-comings;
If we were mourning over our constant failures. Would our peace be shaken?

I believe this is why we just confess or acknowledge our failures. If we are mourning over them, we would be living in them and not in unshakable peace. Pick yourself up and carry on. The past is the past, even if you fall 2 steps later. David was forgiven the GUILT of his sin. Because guilt is not the Christian way of life.

His holiness is ours. The more deeply we become acquainted with our own personal vileness and infirmity, the more we enter into the humiliating truth that in us “dwelleth no good thing” (Rom 7:18)
,

What do you think about this statement NC? It rubs me the wrong way. I don't see this as one of the "goals" in the Christian way of life.

I think if we become acquainted with the Holy Spirit and His word, we will realize that there is nothing good in us. But to become more "acquainted" with this truth and enter more into it, will not grow us Spiritually. We live in the Victory that Christ has over our flesh.

The goal is to become more acquainted with the Spirit that dwells in us, the natural result is finding out that nothing good dwells in our flesh.
 
If we were mourning over our constant failures. Would our peace be shaken?

I believe this is why we just confess or acknowledge our failures. If we are mourning over them, we would be living in them and not in unshakable peace. Pick yourself up and carry on. The past is the past, even if you fall 2 steps later. David was forgiven the GUILT of his sin. Because guilt is not the Christian way of life.
I appreciate your inquiries because they are sincere. The way they often phrased their communications back then can today easily be misunderstood. The author is expressing the believer's part concerning "contrition" (Psa 34:18; 51:17; Isa 57:15) in relation to our "old man."

He's not saying to be in constant sorrow over this, but that our shortcomings are constant, i.e. they continue to occur (but not from our new nature but from the old - Rom 17, 20), which when God continues to reveal them to us (the deeper the revelation the deeper the hurt--but a hurt for our good) we are to continue the attitude of humility and repentance; which I believe can be a joyous privilege when considering our guiltless position in the Lord Jesus.
 
we are to continue the attitude of humility and repentance; which I believe can be a joyous privilege when considering our guiltless position in the Lord Jesus.

God does not want any of his children running around with an attitude of "repentance".
This is fallacy.
God would that his children be occupied with thanksgiving and praise and full of the Joy of the Lord.
 
God does not want any of his children running around with an attitude of "repentance".
This is fallacy.
God would that his children be occupied with thanksgiving and praise and full of the Joy of the Lord.
I believe I understand what you mean concerning initial repentance involved with conversion, which is a repentance not needed again (Heb 6:1), but I refer to repentance which should be accompanying the confessions of our sins even after being saved. Though a wrong doing of one born again is not in accordance with their will, it still needs confession and repentance of the wrong doing.
 
I believe I understand what you mean concerning initial repentance involved with conversion, which is a repentance not needed again (Heb 6:1), but I refer to repentance which should be accompanying the confessions of our sins even after being saved. Though a wrong doing of one born again is not in accordance with their will, it still needs confession and repentance of the wrong doing.

No, im not talking about conversion repentance.
And neither are you.
Im describing an "attitude" of repentance that you said a christian should just maintain...as a mindset.
You refer to it as...."continue the attitude of repentance".
And i'll say again, that this is not sound theology.
We as Christians are not supposed to walk around with a guilt trip, or an "attitude of repentance", 24-7.
We are , as i said, and as i'll say again, supposed to walk around with an >attitude of thanksgiving and praise and be full of the joy of the Lord".
The Joy of the Lord is our STRENGTH, and not an "attitude of repentance", as you have taught here.
So, your theology, in this regard, is harmful, not helpful.
You should never tell Christians to walk around in a state of repentance.
I have no idea why you think this is sound biblical New Testament advice, when in fact its the opposite of how a Christian should behave or think of themselves.
Your bible tells you that you have the "mind of Christ" and you are a "new creation in Christ" and are to operate in the "power of the Holy Spirit", and that is exactly the opposite of what you are teaching regarding a continual "attitude of repentance".
God is not wanting us to linger and wallow and waste time worrying about how we fail, but rather he wants us up and running and not wasting time with guilt or condemnation, as there is "now no condemnation to those who are in Christ".
 
If there were no more sinning, there would be no more need to repent of the sin. Repentance does not address guilt, nor does confession, only the Lord's expiation does. Continued confession and repentance is for growth, without which one cannot maintain a clear conscience, for any sin without repentance of it means a continuance of it instead of turning from it. Confession of a sin without repentance is not true confession.

Judging from what you've stated ("No, I'm not talking about conversion repentance. And neither are you") it appears we do not understand repentance the same.
 
It appears we may have the same agreement concerning joy in the Lord, and for me this is maintained best in knowing our innocence in Christ. My comprehension of maintaining an attitude of repentance intends that we are always prepared to repent of that which we confess.

If it seems we are off subject it's probably because, as I've already mentioned, a possible difference in our understanding on this issue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My comprehension of maintaining an attitude of repentance intends that we are always prepared to repent of that which we confess.

So, you live a Christianity that is always needing to confess, always knowing you're going to be needing to repent of something, and to stay prepared for these sin events that constantly lead you to confess.
I find that very unusual, and hope that one day you are able to find some deliverance.

K
 
Thanks for the"hope you find deliverance" if you're sincere, but I believe the only deliverance available concerning sin is from its penalty from its guilt, its rule from its power, but not from its presence and affect.

Wish you God's best!
 
To say you believe that you can have deliverance from sin's power, but not from its affect, is a contradiction in terms.
As you would not be affected by something that has no power over you to affect you.
And according to Romans 6:14, your New Testament does not agree with your theology.
Ive talked with thousands of Christians and countless ministers since 1988, and you are the only one ive ever encountered who seems to only view Christianity as a means to continually confess and repent.
Even your sig does not agree with your Theology, as if "Christ is living his life through you"< then he is not doing any repenting or confessing.
It's obvious we do have significant differences of understanding, esp. concerning the fact that the believer still sins (which some remain in misunderstanding here), but that's okay if we are sincerely seeking truth because God will eventually show it if we are. Those who do not find truth (not suspecting anyone) is only because they do not truly seek it.

Concerning sin's power, I'm referring to the dominion it has over the unsaved, in its ruling capability (Rom 7:17, 20). The believer is not ruled by it like the unbeliever, which has to yield to it completely. That's the intention of Paul disclosing that the believer is captive (Rom 7:23), meaning an unwilling subject, unlike the unsaved who are not captive but willing subjects.
 
Concerning Christ living His life in us, same as "Christ liveth in me" (Gal 2:20), "He is not only the Author and maintainer of his (the believer) spiritual life, but the life itself; He was formed in his soul, dwelt in his heart, was united to him, was one with him, whence all vital principles and vital actions sprung, and all the communion and comforts of a spiritual life flowed." John Gill

It is the new life of the new nature that the Lord Jesus lives through in us, by the Spirit. They cannot live in the part of us that is the "old man" or old nature, because this "is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7).

This also answers to the fact that the Spirit and not the believer, opposes it in us (Gal 5:17). We can "resist the devil" but not oppose the sinful nature, which we do not need to due to the Spirit's work here. Same concerning His work in Romans 8:13.
 
It's obvious we do have significant differences of understanding, esp. concerning the fact that the believer still sins (which some remain in misunderstanding here),

Concerning sin's power, I'm referring to the dominion it has over the unsaved, in its ruling capability (Rom 7:17, 20). The believer is not ruled by it like the unbeliever, .


Yes, sin has no dominion over a believer, is what Paul said.
This is because sin gets its power from the Law, and where there is no law anymore, as Jesus has become the "End of the Law for righteousness", >for any believer<, then the power of sin in the life of the believer has been broken by the Cross.
This is not applicable to an unbeliever as the power of the blood and the power of the Cross has not been applied to them.


Edited for personal attack
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You have said that you believe that a Christian should maintain an "attitude of confession and repentance".

In other words, you have stated that you think a Christian should have a "sin consciousness" mindset that is set to the "on" position as the way to function "with humility" as a believer.
Why do you think this?
Who taught you this?
Its not biblically based, and its not theologically correct.
So, is this a teaching of your particular denomination, or did you read it in some type of commentary?
Explain.
I would describe a Christian attitude towards sin as being conscious (which awareness tends to heighten its effect) of the indwelling sin source (old man) and also of the grace of God within the believer that exceeds it (Rom 5:20). Being conscious of sin is not the same as having a conscience of sin, or "an evil conscience" (Heb 10:22).

One of the primary growth truths is that which is being aware of the Enemies devices (2Cor 2:11), one of which I believe is his attempted use of our sinful nature against us, which of course cannot prevail because of God's grace that exceeds it (Rom 5:20). (Gal 5:17).

Though the Spirit of God ensures that the sin source does not rule the believer (Gal 5:17), this does not negate the effect of the continued attempts of it being used against us, which God always uses to strengthen our faith (Jam 1:3; 1Pet 1:7).
 
I think "repentance" has just been changed in todays world. Repent in the bible is to "change your mind." And when it is used for the unbeliever it is to change your mind about the Christ. Not your sins, or your way of life. It is to change your mind about Christ. Change your mind about your unbelief.

If repenting of your sins were meant in the biblical meaning of repent for salvation.......that would be a work. And it would be the unbeliever striving for a change in his or her life, and there would be some that could feasibly repent "more" than others.....WORK harder.

It is why it is faith alone in Christ alone. And it is a changed(repented) mind about who Christ really is. Everybody has a mustard seed like faith at salvation. Equal privilege,equal opportunity. I can not say, " I repented of more sin than you did." It is repent of your unbelief,period.

And the believers confession of sin is the same way. There is no merit in our confession of sin. The merit lies in the one who took care of our sin.
My guilt,Godly sorrow,feeling sorry for my sin puts some merit in myself, and is actually my unbelief that I need to help Him out a bit with my sin and it really was not taken care of on the cross.

Name it/site it and carry on. This gets us back in the Spirit and in the place where a believer should be living. 1 John 1:9
 
Last edited:
I had never heard of C. H. Mackintosh - he was born in 1820 and died in 1896 - but his essay does seem to me to reflect an unhealthy attitude that, in my experience, brings some believers to the brink of madness. The Bible verses about the "vileness" of the flesh and how even our best deeds are like "filthy rags" to God are not really about the human condition or a reason for self-loathing. They are about the holiness of God. I may think that Billy Graham and I are "pretty good" in comparison to the "extremely bad" ISIS terrorists, but the point of these verses is that while there may indeed be a foot or two of difference between me and the terrorists and another foot or two of difference between Billy Graham and me (with the edge going to Billy), there is an infinity of difference between whatever goodness the terrorists, I and Billy Graham possess at one end of the spectrum and the holiness of God at the other. Just as eternity is not "a really long time" and infinity is not "a really big number," holiness is not merely "extreme goodness." In comparison to the holiness of God, we're all in the same boat, and none of us has any reason to boast. Even for a non-believer, the requirement is merely to acknowledge that all, including him, have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Moaning, mourning and self-loathing are not required. It is just my observation, but Christians who spend their time in moaning and mourning their "filthy ragness" seldom seem sincere; and when they do seem sincere, it often appears that this attitude has just about destroyed the joy that salvation is supposed to bring.

God does not want any of his children running around with an attitude of "repentance".
This is fallacy.
God would that his children be occupied with thanksgiving and praise and full of the Joy of the Lord.

It seems to me that this is basically correct. Yes, being born again has not destroyed my human flaws, and I will continue to stumble repeatedly. God knew this when he sent Jesus. But I believe the proper attitude is one of almost constant joy, thanksgiving and praise that I am accepted even though my temper got the best of me for the 4,723rd time since I was born again.

Again, it's just my observation, but one of the biggest obstacles to joy, thanksgiving and praise seems to be our inability to accept just how radical Jesus' message really is. We want to turn the "good news" of the Gospel into the "not-quite-so-good news," full of caveats and conditions. I believe Jesus' message is far more radical and liberating than that.
 
Liberating~~When is the last time you heard a sermon on the freedom we actually have in Christ?

It is so very hard for us to see that this freedom actually is the Christian way of life. And If the believer can truly figure out that he is FREE, this is when we will start to run the race. Religion is forever on the side lines making the rules for the flesh and never get into the race.

Gal 5:13~~New American Standard Bible
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
 
I had never heard of C. H. Mackintosh - he was born in 1820 and died in 1896 - but his essay does seem to me to reflect an unhealthy attitude that, in my experience, brings some believers to the brink of madness. The Bible verses about the "vileness" of the flesh and how even our best deeds are like "filthy rags" to God are not really about the human condition or a reason for self-loathing. They are about the holiness of God. I may think that Billy Graham and I are "pretty good" in comparison to the "extremely bad" ISIS terrorists, but the point of these verses is that while there may indeed be a foot or two of difference between me and the terrorists and another foot or two of difference between Billy Graham and me (with the edge going to Billy), there is an infinity of difference between whatever goodness the terrorists, I and Billy Graham possess at one end of the spectrum and the holiness of God at the other. Just as eternity is not "a really long time" and infinity is not "a really big number," holiness is not merely "extreme goodness." In comparison to the holiness of God, we're all in the same boat, and none of us has any reason to boast. Even for a non-believer, the requirement is merely to acknowledge that all, including him, have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Moaning, mourning and self-loathing are not required. It is just my observation, but Christians who spend their time in moaning and mourning their "filthy ragness" seldom seem sincere; and when they do seem sincere, it often appears that this attitude has just about destroyed the joy that salvation is supposed to bring.



It seems to me that this is basically correct. Yes, being born again has not destroyed my human flaws, and I will continue to stumble repeatedly. God knew this when he sent Jesus. But I believe the proper attitude is one of almost constant joy, thanksgiving and praise that I am accepted even though my temper got the best of me for the 4,723rd time since I was born again.

Again, it's just my observation, but one of the biggest obstacles to joy, thanksgiving and praise seems to be our inability to accept just how radical Jesus' message really is. We want to turn the "good news" of the Gospel into the "not-quite-so-good news," full of caveats and conditions. I believe Jesus' message is far more radical and liberating than that.
Its been a while since I heard this and can't even remember who it was that made a comparison like yours.

Gods Holiness is like the Sears tower. And it takes x number of pennies in a stack to equal the height of the tower. Hitlers stack consists of one penny and mine might,just might be two pennies high. It is not about our stack of pennies, it is about the tower.
 
Its been a while since I heard this and can't even remember who it was that made a comparison like yours.

Gods Holiness is like the Sears tower. And it takes x number of pennies in a stack to equal the height of the tower. Hitlers stack consists of one penny and mine might,just might be two pennies high. It is not about our stack of pennies, it is about the tower.

I think of it like this.
Grace is the gift that just keeps on giving.
The Blood of Christ is the gift that just keeps on covering, keeps on pardoning.
Its as if you have an unlimited supply of forgiveness in a heavenly bank account, and every time you mess up, every time you sin, every time you blow it, every time you fall down, ......its only means that you just took out another deposit from your unlimited supply of forgiveness that is what God has provided for free that lasts for all eternity.
 
Back
Top