[_ Old Earth _] 100 reasons why evolution is stupid.

[John]

Dr. Kent hovinds video is gonna be showed to the Grade 12 class this week.

Thanks to yours truly.

It rocks living in Canada, we have yet to be cut off from truthful resources as the US is with the separation of church and state.

Link to video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ons+stupid

I am gonna love this class

 

[Jayls5]

LOL

I turned it off before he even got to biological evolution.

He claims to like science and appeals to his relatives that taught it. Then, he has NO idea how heavier elements were formed from hydrogen! The crappiest astronomy class in the world explains this quite clearly, yet he rhetorically asks how they "evolve."

What a moron.

 

[John]

LOL

I turned it off before he even got to biological evolution.

He claims to like science and appeals all his relatives that taught it. Then, he has NO idea how heavier elements were formed from hydrogen! The crappiest astronomy class in the world explains this quite clearly, yet he rhetorically asks how they "evolve."

What a moron.

Which came first the stars to make the elements (fusion etc) or the elements to make the stars ?

Plus as far as i know you cannot fuse past iron. (Fe)

 

[Jayls5]

LOL

I turned it off before he even got to biological evolution.

He claims to like science and appeals all his relatives that taught it. Then, he has NO idea how heavier elements were formed from hydrogen! The crappiest astronomy class in the world explains this quite clearly, yet he rhetorically asks how they "evolve."

What a moron.

Which came first the stars to make the elements (fusion etc) or the elements to make the stars ?

Plus as far as i know you cannot fuse past iron. (Fe)

lol, the picture of Iron was unnecessary. I think most people know what it is.

Supernovas of a certain size create the denser elements, I forgot how they categorized it exactly... type "2" or "B" maybe. My astronomy classes explained this in the textbook and by the professor himself.

There are entire books explaining in detail the chemical evolution of the galaxy, which are easily accessible.

The way the guy explained it anyway, he made it sound as though no element past hydrogen was explained through 'chemical evolution.' Not only do we have a fairly complex explanation of basic fusion in a main sequence star, but we have been able to do fusion ourselves with lasers. The heaviest elements only occur in the larger supernova.

 

[John]

lol, the picture of Iron was unnecessary. I think most people know what it is.

:-D Yeah.

Supernovas of a certain size create the denser elements, I forgot how they categorized it exactly... type "2" or "B" maybe. My astronomy classes explained this in the textbook and by the professor himself.

How can one tell what happens with elements in a supernova? did the voyager fly into one lately ?

There are entire books explaining in detail the chemical evolution of the galaxy, which are easily accessible.

I'll have to read up

The way the guy explained it anyway, he made it sound as though no element past hydrogen was explained through 'chemical evolution.' Not only do we have a fairly complex explanation of basic fusion in a main sequence star, but we have been able to do fusion ourselves with lasers. The heaviest elements only occur in the larger supernova.

again, maybe out of ignorance, but how can anyone observe 100% of what takes place in a supernova?

 

[Jayls5]

How can one tell what happens with elements in a supernova? did the voyager fly into one lately ?

again, maybe out of ignorance, but how can anyone observe 100% of what takes place in a supernova?

I'm not an expert of the subject, since I didn't even remember the exact name of supernova scientists theorize create these elements.

I highly doubt the current scientific consensus of the heaviest elements is a result of a direct observation of a supernova from a probe, given their lack of frequency. We're currently waiting for betelgeuse to go off, but we don't know exactly when it will happen. It's probably a result of mathematical application of what we already know about smaller scale fusion and astrophysics. Obviously, the best I can do is speculate here, but I don't think that's the point:

This guy is being clearly disingenuous, implying that it's not explained how hydrogen got turned into heavier elements when that couldn't be further from the truth. At best, his argument would rest on a lack of direct empirical data for the heaviest elements... which in itself does not justify his passive dismissal of the entire branch of "cosmic evolution" as he puts it. Once I see a guy has no interest in being intellectually (or academically) honest, I stop listening. I think it's warranted.

 

[John]

Its worth taking a deeper look into.

*starts looking on ebay for books*

 

[Jayls5]

Its worth taking a deeper look into.

*starts looking on ebay for books*

Sure, I'd look into scientific criticisms no problem. He doesn't seem to be too scientifically motivated though.

Once I see that he's misleading on things I already know a decent amount about, I have no reason to believe he won't do the same to shape my opinion about things I know little to nothing about.

 

[jmm9683]

Dr. Kent hovinds video is gonna be showed to the Grade 12 class this week.

Thanks to yours truly.

It rocks living in Canada, we have yet to be cut off from truthful resources as the US is with the separation of church and state.

Link to video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ons+stupid

I am gonna love this class

S.ucks for your classmates.

 

[Barbarian]

About 12 years ago, my daughter came home from high school, and said that an "Intelligent Design" person was going to talk to her class. So I spent a little time talking to her about it. And Dr. ID showed up and launched into an argument popular at the time (woodpeckers could not evolve) and told about all the amazing features of "The Woodpecker" that clearly, in his estimation could never have evolved. Fortunately, we talked about that one.

And then he asked for questions. "Which woodpecker?" she asked.

"You know. The woodpecker. Big bill, drills into trees. That one."

"But there is no such thing as "The Woodpecker. There are many different kinds of woodpeckers, and all of them have the features you mentioned, but in different stages of development. And they are all useful to the birds that have them. Doesn't this mean they certainly could have evolved?"

At this point, he said he wasn't an ornithologist, he was a biochemist, and he'd have to check on some things to answer her question. Teacher was glaring at her, and Dr. ID took his leave.

:-D

 

[John]

"But there is no such thing as "The Woodpecker. There are many different kinds of woodpeckers, and all of them have the features you mentioned

Yep

but in different stages of development.

Ermm yeah... :crazyeyes:

And they are all useful to the birds that have them

Correct

. Doesn't this mean they certainly could have evolved?"

Good observation,. Bad conclusion.

Please for the sake of your child stop this madness.

 

[Snidey]

So you are saying they could NOT have evolved then john? His conclusion is actually a very tame claim.

 

[Barbarian]

Never underestimate the power of denial conjoined with ignorance.

The biochemist might not have been an ornithologist, but he was a scientist, and faced with the facts, realized he was operating from an indefensible position and beat a hasty retreat.

 

[Bryce]

Loved it, thanks for posting
I lol'd

 

[Patashu]

LOL

I turned it off before he even got to biological evolution.

He claims to like science and appeals all his relatives that taught it. Then, he has NO idea how heavier elements were formed from hydrogen! The crappiest astronomy class in the world explains this quite clearly, yet he rhetorically asks how they "evolve."

What a moron.

Which came first the stars to make the elements (fusion etc) or the elements to make the stars ?

Plus as far as i know you cannot fuse past iron. (Fe)

You can fuse past iron. However, as iron has the highest binding energy per nucleon it is an endothermic process to fuse past iron and far more difficult than any lower element. The synthesis of heavy elements happens in the extreme conditions of a supernova.
And all you need to form a star is a massive amount of hydrogen concentrated in one place. Stars make heavier elements not use them.

 

[Patashu]

How can one tell what happens with elements in a supernova? did the voyager fly into one lately ?

The behavior of all stellar activity including supernova is predicted and confirmed by all the laws of physics and atomic theory we have discovered through experiments here on Earth. IE, a simulation of a star running on known physical laws matches the behavior over time that we see in a real star. We know what happens in a supernova because the laws of physics are the same in all parts of the universe.

 

[John]

How can one tell what happens with elements in a supernova? did the voyager fly into one lately ?

The behavior of all stellar activity including supernova is predicted and confirmed by all the laws of physics and atomic theory we have discovered through experiments here on Earth. IE, a simulation of a star running on known physical laws matches the behavior over time that we see in a real star. We know what happens in a supernova because the laws of physics are the same in all parts of the universe.

Yes ok, but still, how could all the elements we have come from these ?

 

[Bryce]

How can one tell what happens with elements in a supernova? did the voyager fly into one lately ?

The behavior of all stellar activity including supernova is predicted and confirmed by all the laws of physics and atomic theory we have discovered through experiments here on Earth. IE, a simulation of a star running on known physical laws matches the behavior over time that we see in a real star. We know what happens in a supernova because the laws of physics are the same in all parts of the universe.

Yes ok, but still, how could all the elements we have come from these ?

They come from stars.
Nuclear fusion fuses together H atoms into He, then eventually when there is enough He, these start to fuse together with other H & He atoms to make Li and Be, and the process goes on and on. Eventually the star blows up (supernova) and the elements are spread out all over the universe.
I've probably missed some important details there, not really my area.

And from an evolutionist perspective:
The Big Bang; after the primordial explosion the matter of universe clumped together as H2 and He which clumped together as stars; these atoms then fused to form larger nuclear groupings. As stars exploded (supernovae) the heavier elements were dispersed into the universe creating the earth and us. Not just Zsa Zsa Gabor, but we ourselves are faded stars.
Then the Chemical Evolution of the lighter Elements provide the various elements that are found today

 

[John]

They come from stars.
Nuclear fusion fuses together H atoms into He, then eventually when there is enough He, these start to fuse together with other H & He atoms to make Li and Be, and the process goes on and on. Eventually the star blows up (supernova) and the elements are spread out all over the universe.
I've probably missed some important details there, not really my area.

I was told that you can't fuse past iron.

 

[Bryce]

They come from stars.
Nuclear fusion fuses together H atoms into He, then eventually when there is enough He, these start to fuse together with other H & He atoms to make Li and Be, and the process goes on and on. Eventually the star blows up (supernova) and the elements are spread out all over the universe.
I've probably missed some important details there, not really my area.

I was told that you can't fuse past iron.

Where did you get that information? Technically speaking, I think right now we can't even fuse past helium (I could be wrong), but in theory we could fuse new elements never before seen or considered. It'd be pretty difficult, and pretty much impossible with today's technology, but eventually it may be plausible.

I jumped in without reading all the posts first, my bad :roll: