[_ Old Earth _] 100 reasons why evolution is stupid.

[Ellusion]

Sorry to hear about Hovind. I think that they got Al Capone on tax fraud when they really wanted him for his crimes as a mob boss. Maybe that is the case with Hovind -- they wanted him for debunking atheist darwinism but could only make a case "stick in court" using his tax exempt status request history.

Debunking atheist darwinism? Are you kidding? Yes, perhaps 10 years is a little excessive for tax fraud, however, that was not the limit of his crimes. He tried to hide deeds in order to pay less debt. He tried to sign a paper that would render all his previous signatures null and void. He lied consistently in court and was refuted by the evidence the IRS found. He tried to tell the IRS that God owned his worldly possessions, and so he shouldn't have to pay taxes. Hell, he even tried to remove his status as an American citizen in order to avoid paying. Would a truly devout christian be this materialistic?

Kent Hovind's finances are not the "subject" of this thread -- it may be a "rabbit trail " for some of the atheist darwinists to harp on -- but does not change the subject

The subject is Kent Hovind's video. I was simply stating is science is awful. You DO know it's impossible to accelerate light past c, correct? Well Hovind claims this is possible, thus making the constant c useless as proof the world's age.

 

[BobRyan]

The constant and yet incredibly transparent effort to "attach the person" (can you say ad hominem) when an objection is raised against the religious temple of atheist darwinism -- simply proves that the darwinists are not able to deal with the facts at hand IF those facts appear to challenge darwinist doctrine.

How were we "not supposed to notice that"??

Bob

 

[jmm9683]

The constant and yet incredibly transparent effort to "attach the person" (can you say ad hominem) when an objection is raised against the religious temple of atheist darwinism -- simply proves that the darwinists are not able to deal with the facts at hand IF those facts appear to challenge darwinist doctrine.

How were we "not supposed to notice that"??

Bob

Hovind is a fraud, he's not a scientist. He received a Bachelor of Religious Education from the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College. Then he received his master's and doctorate at the non-accredited diploma mill, Patriot Bible University. He has no real academic background. And in his "debates," he just plays to the emotions of his crowd using the same out-of-date arguments that have been proven wrong time after time.

And he's not being persecuted for being an creationist. He didn't pay his taxes and is in jail, that's what happens... just ask Wesley Snipes.

 

[John]

He runs a church organization and should be tax exempt.

 

[Barbarian]

Individuals aren't tax-exempt. So the money he tapped off for his personal use is taxable. He was quite aware of that, since he made all sorts of attempts to hide his assets.

He's just a criminal, like any other.

 

[John]

CHARGE ONE:
FAILURE TO WITHHOLD EMPLOYEE-RELATED TAXES

Dr. Hovind's Defense:
From the start of the ministry, Dr. Hovind sought legal counsel on the proper way to compensate those who would serve with him in the ministry. He was told by several attorneys that as a 508 organization, CSE was not required to withhold taxes and that each person serving would be responsible for paying their own income taxes. For seventeen years the ministry operated without incident, and no notice was ever given to CSE or Dr. Hovind that the IRS wanted any changes made on this issue until the day the charges were brought.

CSE's Remedy:
CSE immediately began using an employee leasing service to ensure proper conformity to the tax laws. The employee leasing service deducts all the required tax withholding for those serving at CSE Ministry.

CHARGE TWO:
STRUCTURING CASH TRANSACTIONS IN ORDER TO EVADE BANK REPORTING REQUIREMENTS

Dr. Hovind's Defense:
Up until 2003, CSE withdrew cash in order to compensate those who served at CSE. There was no knowledge of Bank Secrecy Laws and never any intention of evading Internal Revenue Service regulations.

CSE's Remedy:
As CSE began to grow larger, Dr. Hovind asked the governing director to begin using checks rather than cash when compensating those serving. This modification was instituted, and therefore, the cash transactions in question were no longer necessary. This modification occurred four years prior to the trial - not because of it.

As a signer of the checks, Jo Hovind also faced the charge of structuring.

CHARGE THREE:
THREATENING AND IMPEDING THE INVESTIGATION OF A GOVERNMENT AGENT

Dr. Hovind's Defense:
Because Dr. Hovind filed papers questioning actions of the IRS, which was his legal right, he was charged with “impeding†the agency. They also believed he “threatened agents with bodily harm†by praying for those involved on public radio.

CSE's Remedy:
CSE is fully cooperating and complying with requests made to them by the IRS. We are thankful for the wise counsel that has been provided to us over these past several months from attorneys, CPAs, pastors, and friends in relation to these events

 

[Ellusion]

Gibbs is an attorney with the Gibbs Law Firm, also is affiliated with the Christian Law Association, a nonprofit organization founded by his father that offers free legal help to churches nationwide in a suburb of St. Petersburg, Florida. Gibbs attended the Marcus Pointe Baptist Church when Hovind was a guest speaker at the church on October 17, 2004. Hovind invited Gibbs and others to Hovind's home for pizza and soda.

Gibbs testified they talked for many hours, and Hovind "tried to stress to me that he was like the pope and this was like the Vatican." Also Gibbs explained Hovind also told him he preferred to deal in cash because "dealing with cash there is no way to trace it, so it wasn't taxable."

Later on Friday, Special IRS Agent Scott Schneider took up the remainder of the day and is expected to resume Monday. Schneider told the jury his investigation revealed that Hovind "hadn't filed tax returns ever, to my knowledge."

Schneider's discussed documents seized during the 2004 raid of Hovind's property. These documents, Schneider explained, indicated Hovind ran his ministry as a business with "meticulous" payroll documents and a time clock employees had to punch in and out.

This is not the first time Hovind has found himself in legal trouble. In 2002 he refused to get a $50.00 building permit for his Dinosaur Adventure Land, and after three years of legal battles the court ruled that he get a permit or the building would be razed. The park, which depicts dinosaurs as coexisting with humans in the last 6-4,000 years with the more recent "dinosaurs" being the Loch Ness monster, is reportedly open after Hovind paid for the permit and fines totaling $10,402.64.

After being indicted, Hovind maintained his innocence. "I still don't understand what I'm being charged for and who is charging me," he said.[119] Magistrate Miles Davis asked Hovind if he wrote and spoke English, to which Hovind responded "To some degree"

In this week's trial two of Hovind's workers testified in federal court that they didn't consider where they worked to be a church. In court Hovind maintains he does not have to pay the taxes because his employees were "volunteers," "missionaries" or "ministers" and his business was a ministry.

However, Brian Popp, Hovind's employee for at least eight years, said he considered himself a minister at the time of his employment, but said Hovind's ministry isn't a church. Popp also testified that Hovind knew about the bank's requirement to report transactions over $10,000 and said it was "not safe to carry large sums of cash."


[119]Stewart, Michael. "Evangelist arrested on federal charges", Pensacola News Journal, 14 July 2006.

 

[John]

Yes indeed the US sucks, here in Canada people who have the balls fight the government on income taxes and win.(shhh don't tell anyone the government hates it when they are found out.) income tax is really illegal, used only to fund the world wars, since the last war ended so should income tax.

 

[jmm9683]

Yes indeed the US *bleep*, here in Canada people who have the balls fight the government on income taxes and win.(shhh don't tell anyone the government hates it when they are found out.) income tax is really illegal, used only to fund the world wars, since the last war ended so should income tax.

Whether or not there should be an income tax is irrelevant, he broke the law and went to prison. He knew what he was doing was illegal. He has to play by the rules just like everyone else, he's not above paying taxes.

 

[John]

Yes indeed the US *bleep*, here in Canada people who have the balls fight the government on income taxes and win.(shhh don't tell anyone the government hates it when they are found out.) income tax is really illegal, used only to fund the world wars, since the last war ended so should income tax.

Whether or not there should be an income tax is irrelevant, he broke the law and went to prison. He knew what he was doing was illegal. He has to play by the rules just like everyone else, he's not above paying taxes.

Whether or not hovind did anything wrong does not give leave to spit at him/CSE/the teachings.

 

[jmm9683]

Yes indeed the US *bleep*, here in Canada people who have the balls fight the government on income taxes and win.(shhh don't tell anyone the government hates it when they are found out.) income tax is really illegal, used only to fund the world wars, since the last war ended so should income tax.

Whether or not there should be an income tax is irrelevant, he broke the law and went to prison. He knew what he was doing was illegal. He has to play by the rules just like everyone else, he's not above paying taxes.

Whether or not hovind did anything wrong does not give leave to spit at him/CSE/the teachings.

No, but the fact that he doesn't have an academic background does.

 

[John]

Just becuase its not acceptable by your definition does not mean anything.

 

[jmm9683]

Just becuase its not acceptable by your definition does not mean anything.

It's not acceptable by anyone's definition outside of Hovind's and the unaccredited diploma mill in which he "graduated" from. He is a fraud posing as a scientist, not to mention a criminal. He has zero credibility.

"Steve Levicoff's Name It and Frame It? New Opportunities in Adult Education and How to Avoid Being Ripped Off by 'Christian' Degree Mills (4th ed., 1995) listed Patriot Bible University as a degree mill.[1] The college has varied its policies over the years, but it has been criticized for awarding students degrees based on questionable standards such as "life experience" or "ministry evaluation" that lack academic rigour and merit. It is also criticized for issuing advanced degrees in months rather than years, and for charging a monthly fee (most universities charge a per-credit fee). The school's catalog contains course descriptions but no listing of the school's faculty or their credentials.

The university is not accredited by any recognized accreditation associations of higher learning. It is recognized by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, which has no recognition from the United States Department of Education or any other government educational organization.[9] The AAATI is itself considered an accreditation mill.[1] The group provides approval to schools for a $100 charge.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Bi ... Levicoff-0

 

[Snidey]

Whether or not hovind did anything wrong does not give leave to spit at him/CSE/the teachings.

Do you really believe this? Hovind doing something wrong (aside from his laughably flawed grasp on science) seems like a decent reason to not like him. Maybe if I met him I'd like him enough to put the large and consistent tax fraud aside, but I lack such qualifying information.

I don't believe that Hovind himself is evidence that YEC are incorrect. The fact that they stand behind him and defend him despite his clearly being a scumbag probably is, however.

 

[Deep Thought]

The funny thing about Hovind is that some of his ideas are too whacky even for some YEC's! :crazyeyes: