Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

[__ Science __ ] 125 Children Dead, 1K Disabled & 50K injured due to Covid-19 Vaccination in the USA

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) hosts a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) that is updated weekly and can be found here. The latest data contains VAERS reports processed (not received) as of 3rd June 2022.

Unfortunately, the CDC reveals that at least 49,878 children (Aged 0 to 17) have suffered an injury due to Covid-19 vaccination as of 3rd June 2022.





 
The VAERS system is not a list of people who were adversely affected by vaccines. It's a listing of adverse events that occurred to people who recently had vaccines. It includes lightning strikes, suicides, auto accidents and becoming the Incredible Hulk as "adverse events."

But dishonest people will try to tell you all of those things were caused by the vaccine. From Johns Hopkins:

What VAERS Is (And Isn’t)

The public database of reported post-vaccination health issues is often misused to sow misinformation.

VAERS is a publicly available, searchable database of reports that have not been verified. It simply contains whatever people have voluntarily reported. Moreover, the CDC and FDA do not restrict what people can report, as long as it happened at some point following a vaccination.

That means events that happen even years later and have no obvious connection to a vaccine, such as feelings of anger, end up reported in the system, says Talaat. “It’s very open and public and searchable. Since it’s so transparent, people don’t really understand what it’s for. They think it’s things that are vetted and have causal relationships with the vaccine.”

 
The information in the VAERS database cannot be used for that purpose. Anyone can put anything in that database, without it being checked. So we find that COVID vaccine "adverse events" in VAERS include lightning strikes, suicides, auto accidents and becoming the Incredible Hulk. Yes, that really was submitted and it was included, until the prankster who did it, asked to have it removed. They had no choice. That's how it works.

Who would be gullible enough to believe all that?
 
The VAERS system is not a list of people who were adversely affected by vaccines. It's a listing of adverse events that occurred to people who recently had vaccines. It includes lightning strikes, suicides, auto accidents and becoming the Incredible Hulk as "adverse events."

But dishonest people will try to tell you all of those things were caused by the vaccine. From Johns Hopkins:

What VAERS Is (And Isn’t)

The public database of reported post-vaccination health issues is often misused to sow misinformation.

VAERS is a publicly available, searchable database of reports that have not been verified. It simply contains whatever people have voluntarily reported. Moreover, the CDC and FDA do not restrict what people can report, as long as it happened at some point following a vaccination.

That means events that happen even years later and have no obvious connection to a vaccine, such as feelings of anger, end up reported in the system, says Talaat. “It’s very open and public and searchable. Since it’s so transparent, people don’t really understand what it’s for. They think it’s things that are vetted and have causal relationships with the vaccine.”

No disrespect, but this seems like double talk to me coming from Big Pharma defenders. (Don't take this as an accusation against you since you're just citing a source) It's clearly in the name "Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting" but that's somehow not what it's meant for?

I'm not sure I can trust the words of John Hopkins et al given how they (medical community at large) said plenty of things over the last 2+ years and then walked a lot of that back now. This just seem like more poisoning the well fallacious framing in order to prevent those among the medical community who went against, and are still going against the prevailing thought around how COVID was handled. Because some of those dissenting professionals: virologists, immunologists, etc. have used the reporting in VAERS, among other things, to research and call attention to adverse affects of the vaccines. Some adverse affects that even the companies, like Johnson & Johnson have been forced to admit. Which, at least, Hopkins does admit: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...seases/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-side-effects

If you've listened to any of the vaccine injured, especially those injured from the test, they were all told to report through VAERS, if they were told to report anything at all. Some were treated, during the height of the COVID stuff, as if they were making it all up when they obviously weren't.

It includes lightning strikes, suicides, auto accidents and becoming the Incredible Hulk as "adverse events."

And I'm sure anyone who brings it up or looks into the data of VAERS in relation to Vaccine Adverse Events, which is what it's meant for, and if the person has integrity, they rule out the false reports like this. False reports in the database doesn't mean the entire database can't be used to track the history of legitimate COVID vaccine reports. Especially if researchers are doing the extra leg work and contacting the vaccine injured to follow up. Which I know many have from research I've read and lectures given by the dissenting professionals.

Just saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB
It's clearly in the name "Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting" but that's somehow not what it's meant for?
It's a catch-all. It's meant to be a way to get every possible report. As the VAERS site points out, anyone can put anything in there. Which is why you see auto accidents and Hulk reports and so on. Here:

Are all adverse events reported to VAERS caused by vaccines?


No. Some adverse events might be caused by vaccination and others might be coincidental and not related to vaccination. Just because an adverse event happened after a person received a vaccine does not mean the vaccine caused the adverse event.

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events following vaccination without judging the cause or seriousness of the event. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it is good at detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems that need a closer look.


This is why scammers hide those facts from you when citing VAERS.


I'm not sure I can trust the words of John Hopkins et al given how they (medical community at large) said plenty of things over the last 2+ years and then walked a lot of that back now.
Like what? So far, I haven't seen anything significant.
And I'm sure anyone who brings it up or looks into the data of VAERS in relation to Vaccine Adverse Events, which is what it's meant for, and if the person has integrity, they rule out the false reports like this.
You'd think, wouldn't you? But they don't. They use it as if all those incidents were real effects of the vaccine. Since you can't tell from the database which are real, which are conincidental, and which are faked. And all of that is in there.
False reports in the database doesn't mean the entire database can't be used to track the history of legitimate COVID vaccine reports.
That's what it's for. Each of those reports, unless they are obviously faked (like a 3 YO getting the shot and getting sick) or absurd, like an auto accident, has to be chased down and checked.
Which I know many have from research I've read and lectures given by the dissenting professionals.
Could you cite the research papers you've read? I'd be interested in seeing them.
 
The information in the VAERS database cannot be used for that purpose.
Of course not. It can only be used for what you say it can be used for.
I'm just pointing out that the people who maintain that database show you that it can't be used for that purpose.

Are all adverse events reported to VAERS caused by vaccines?


No. Some adverse events might be caused by vaccination and others might be coincidental and not related to vaccination. Just because an adverse event happened after a person received a vaccine does not mean the vaccine caused the adverse event.

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events following vaccination without judging the cause or seriousness of the event. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it is good at detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems that need a closer look.


VAERS - FAQs

No point in denying the fact.
 
VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it is good at detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems that need a closer look.
It sounds like VAERS exists as an error correction to the data they put out. If there were any irregularities in the data on vaccine injuries the VAERS system would expose it.
 
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events following vaccination without judging the cause or seriousness of the event. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it is good at detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems that need a closer look.
I've tracked vaccine injury claims long before the current trendiness regarding the medical community and Big Pharma due to COVID. Vaccine injured have always been told to report to VAERS so it could be tracked, but deniers of Vaccine injured have always used this line of reasoning. Many in Big Pharma and many in the medical community.

Yes, VAERS is not meant to make a direct one-for-one conclusion that this vaccine did that, but it's also kind of contradictory to set the system up and then for the medical community to make that argument. Someone should be assigned to sift through the database, at least. When the public sees mass numbers like that in a database set up for vaccine injury reports and then see mass denials by the medical community often framed that "there's no evidence that [insert vaccine here] caused [insert medical issue here]" when they didn't really bother to do any deep investigation, it raises alarms and all people see are the massive report numbers.

Like what? So far, I haven't seen anything significant.
Like Fauci's emails showing he knew masks were pointless but encouraged policy to pretty much fear monger people into wearing masks anyway. Like CDC going back and forth, no not because of research because research still shows masks don't do anything, on masks since the height of the COVID stuffs. Like claiming initially that vaccinated people do not carry COVID, vaccinated people can't get COVID anymore, etc. after it was shown to be demonstrably false and even then the mantra was still out there because of the talking heads claiming the above about vaccinated people. Like initially going against known science about natural immunity just for the sake of Big Pharma and vaccines only to have to ultimately admit that was a thing and walk it back later.

You'd think, wouldn't you? But they don't. They use it as if all those incidents were real effects of the vaccine. Since you can't tell from the database which are real, which are conincidental, and which are faked. And all of that is in there.
When I first replied to you, I was at work and didn't want to click on all of JLB's original post links. It's late now and I don't have time to watch the video of the second link, but letting it play in the background, all it seems to be is people reporting their experiences. The first link is simply doing what I said above, listing the numbers reported without further detailed examination, which is alarming to people. If the medical community simply admitted that a certain amount of those reports are this or that, people would back off. The second link a video, has dozens of links under it supporting their conclusions. Hand waving away people's experiences, which is what Vaccine supporters tend to do as well as Big Pharma, and only a small segment of the medical community seem to take seriously and official story proponents deny and by which the mass population believes, causes a response like this.

That's what it's for. Each of those reports, unless they are obviously faked (like a 3 YO getting the shot and getting sick) or absurd, like an auto accident, has to be chased down and checked.

Fake reports doesn't change what the database can be used for. You're only secure argument here is that using the numbers in mass without any additional details or scrubbing of false reports is what's the problem. But VAERS is intended for Vaccine adverse event reporting. As I said, it's in the name.

Could you cite the research papers you've read? I'd be interested in seeing them.
It's late, and I came home from work and fell asleep early in the evening and woke up to take care of some things, but have to get back to bed, so here are a few:

Paper written in the New England Journal of Medicine used VAERS to start research on pregnant women during summer of 2021: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104983

National Library of Medicine Journal uses VAERS for their research on potential COVID-19 vaccine injuries Spring of this year, 2022: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35233819/

Dr. Jessica Rose used VAERS to speak about vaccine safety and analyze VAERs and adverse events overall as well as the mass reporting during COVID. She challenged the consensus that the reports in VAERS had nothing to do with COVID:
Her paper, warning it opens a PDF in your browser: https://cf5e727d-d02d-4d71-89ff-9fe...d/adf864_0490c898f7514df4b6fbc5935da07322.pdf
Her presentation given sometime late spring, early summer 2021:

2021 research criticizing VAERS for being underreported and not handled properly at the time at the time in regard to mortality risk: https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_and_age-stratified_all-cause_mortality_risk

Honestly, it's well known among medical researchers that VAERS has been a tool used for research. But if you're curious what the dissenters were saying in public and not research but trying to inform people, you can look into Dr. Robert Malone who worked early into mRNA technology, I don't advise reading hit pieces on him. Epoch Times has good interviews, but really any podcast or interview that allows him to speak is preferable. You can look up Dr. Martin Kulldroff, an epidemiologist, you can look up Professor Aaron Kheriaty, Dr. Paul Alexander, Dr. Peter Mcullough, Dr. Ryan Cole, Dr. Jay Bahattachary, Dr. Scott Atlas, and Dr. Harvey Risch to name a few. Again, of course, media hit pieces were obviously written on them because they were dissenting voices during the height of the COVID fear mongering. Many of them were simply interviewing or doing their own research and in some of their interviews they may speak about other research.
 
It sounds like VAERS exists as an error correction to the data they put out. If there were any irregularities in the data on vaccine injuries the VAERS system would expose it.
It's like a police dispatcher. Anyone can report anything on 911. The dispatcher screens things that don't need police, and sometimes police actually go out and find that the report is not what it seemed to be. In a similar manner the researchers toss out lightning strike and Hulk transformations and then take a closer look at more credible claims. Many of them turn out to be wrong, too. This is why no reasonable person thinks that VAERS is an accurate record of vaccine adverse events.

Notice that the VAERS site itself warns about this.
 
It sounds like VAERS exists as an error correction to the data they put out. If there were any irregularities in the data on vaccine injuries the VAERS system would expose it.
Sometimes, there are rare effects that don't turn up in the studies, or conditions not accounted for in the tests. That's what VAERS is for. The people maintaining VAERS aren't telling you that getting vaccinated makes you have auto accidents; they just accept anything and then researchers work through it to see if there's anything missed in the studies.

It's a good system. The problem is unscrupulous people pretending all those reports are caused by the vaccination.

And the real key is the relative mortality of those who were vaccinated, compared to those who were not.
 
Like Fauci's emails showing he knew masks were pointless but encouraged policy to pretty much fear monger people into wearing masks anyway.

No, that's false. What he said was that it gave some protection to the wearer, but better protection to people around the wearer. Which is true. Why do you think they wear masks in surgery?

Yes, VAERS is not meant to make a direct one-for-one conclusion that this vaccine did that, but it's also kind of contradictory to set the system up and then for the medical community to make that argument. Someone should be assigned to sift through the database, at least.
That's what they do. Do you think it just sits there? Researchers are sifting through the reports constantly.
When the public sees mass numbers like that in a database set up for vaccine injury reports and then see mass denials by the medical community often framed that "there's no evidence that [insert vaccine here] caused [insert medical issue here]" when they didn't really bother to do any deep investigation, it raises alarms and all people see are the massive report numbers.
No. VAERS has been in existence for a long time, and all sorts of vaccines are in it. It wasn't until people with a political agenda got into it and started lying to others about the database that anyone was concerned.
She challenged the consensus that the reports in VAERS had nothing to do with COVID
If she thought that was the consensus, she's pretty dumb. The database exists for monitoring all vaccines for possible problems. This is the kind of thing that makes people question the integrity of antivaxxers.

Hand waving away people's experiences, which is what Vaccine supporters tend to do as well as Big Pharma, and only a small segment of the medical community seem to take seriously and official story proponents deny and by which the mass population believes, causes a response like this.
Honesty would go a long way toward credibility. Get caught once in one of those misrepresentations of VAERS, and the game is up as far as rational people think. Malone got caught misrepresenting his role in the COVID vaccines, and that was pretty much it for him.

“Regarding the genetic covid vaccines, the science is settled,” he said in a 15-minute speech that referenced the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy. “They are not working.”

The misinformation came two days after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released its first studies based on real-world data showing that coronavirus vaccines provide strong protection against hospitalization from the rapidly spreading omicron variant.


The data got him. And he lost all credibility with any rational person after that.
 
It's like a police dispatcher. Anyone can report anything on 911. The dispatcher screens things that don't need police, and sometimes police actually go out and find that the report is not what it seemed to be. In a similar manner the researchers toss out lightning strike and Hulk transformations and then take a closer look at more credible claims. Many of them turn out to be wrong, too. This is why no reasonable person thinks that VAERS is an accurate record of vaccine adverse events.

Notice that the VAERS site itself warns about this.
The police dispatcher is an even better analogy.
 
No, that's false. What he said was that it gave some protection to the wearer, but better protection to people around the wearer. Which is true. Why do you think they wear masks in surgery?

I'm talking about the email where he admitted he knew it wouldn't do anything for viruses in conversation with Sylvia Burwell, and I quote:

""Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.

"The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.""

He goes on to add: "I do not recommend that you wear a mask, particularly since you are going to a very low risk location."
From: https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-said...ctive-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals-1596703
And again, research at this time knew all of this, but they went with the mask policy anyway.

That's what they do. Do you think it just sits there? Researchers are sifting through the reports constantly.
Which is what I said at the beginning and you seemed to try to challenge. Which means VAERS is relevant for vaccine adverse events. Full stop.

No. VAERS has been in existence for a long time, and all sorts of vaccines are in it. It wasn't until people with a political agenda got into it and started lying to others about the database that anyone was concerned.
No, this is wrong. Before COVID people were trying to get the pro-vaccine community and medical community to see the obvious connections between some vaccines and autism, for example. All of the parents vyving for this research, unbiased I might add. It doesn't make sense for Big Pharma to research Big Pharma and conclude Big Pharma's not at fault, now does it, but then you should look at some whistleblower and exposing investigation of Project Veritas. But the point is that this was a thing long before COVID, it's just been put on blast now.

If she thought that was the consensus, she's pretty dumb. The database exists for monitoring all vaccines for possible problems. This is the kind of thing that makes people question the integrity of antivaxxers.

I'm not sure why you asked me for research references if your default response is to hand-wave everyone away by calling a professional "dumb" which is usual for people who want to deny the questions of people curious about vaccine injured as well as the vaccine injured.

I can tell you didn't even bother looking at anything and I posted this in good faith that you were objectively interested in the information. Seems that you're not.

Honesty would go a long way toward credibility. Get caught once in one of those misrepresentations of VAERS, and the game is up as far as rational people think. Malone got caught misrepresenting his role in the COVID vaccines, and that was pretty much it for him.

“Regarding the genetic covid vaccines, the science is settled,” he said in a 15-minute speech that referenced the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy. “They are not working.”

The misinformation came two days after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released its first studies based on real-world data showing that coronavirus vaccines provide strong protection against hospitalization from the rapidly spreading omicron variant.


The data got him. And he lost all credibility with any rational person after that.

I clearly warned you against hit pieces. He didn't misrepresent his role whenever he talked about it and he always said that he was one of the first researchers who worked with mRNA. He never said he was THE inventor of THE current trend of mRNA. He invented SOME mRNA and DNA vaccine deliveries. He can't stop people from putting that in their descriptions when they make videos, or whatever.

Not to mention he filed to sue Washington Post in August 2022 for defamation for this very article for a collection selective misquotes. https://www.theepochtimes.com/dr-robert-malone-sues-washington-post-for-defamation_4675658.html and it is awaiting trial. It's funny that since then most news site have refrained from posting claims that he's a fraud and that he's telling lies.

I see now that you are very willfully misinformed on all of this and instead of looking into contrary information like I thought you wanted to with your line of questioning, you ran to preferential news sources to confirm your bias. Especially since you resulted to only attacking two of the information sources I gave just like every legacy media organization over the past two years did to any dissenting voices in regard to Covid.

At this point, I don't believe I can have an honest discourse with you on the subject given the way you've treated the information I gave you, which you asked for.
 
No, that's false. What he said was that it gave some protection to the wearer, but better protection to people around the wearer. Which is true. Why do you think they wear masks in surgery?

""Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.

"The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.""

He goes on to add: "I do not recommend that you wear a mask, particularly since you are going to a very low risk location."


That's what I said. He was asked there about wearing a mask to protect yourself. And as he says in your quote, it offers some protection. But mostly, as he said elsewhere, it's for protecting others.

Which is what I said at the beginning and you seemed to try to challenge. Which means VAERS is relevant for vaccine adverse events. Full stop.
What it isn't, is a measure of how many people are adversely affected by the vaccine. You seem to get that now, but many antivaxxers are claiming it's a list of people harmed by the vaccine, which it is not. That's the hoax we're dealing with.
I clearly warned you against hit pieces.
I get it. Anything that's less than positive about this guy is, in your mind, a "hit piece." But it's all true. And at some point, you'll have to deal with it.
Not to mention he filed to sue Washington Post in August 2022
Won't do him any good. They didn't lie about him. If it's true, it's not defamation.
I see now that you are very willfully misinformed on all of this and instead of looking into contrary information like I thought you wanted to with your line of questioning, you ran to preferential news sources to confirm your bias.
Funny how people who do that, never realize they are, um?
At this point, I don't believe I can have an honest discourse with you on the subject
You're too invested in your own assumptions to deal with the data. We get that.
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top