1948 significant??

[preterist]

We must understand that only Paul (and not the other apostles) was the only one to understand initially that Gentiles were included.

Act 10:11 and he beholdeth the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth:
Act 10:12 wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts and creeping things of the earth and birds of the heaven.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common and unclean.
Act 10:15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common.
Act 10:16 And this was done thrice: and straightway the vessel was received up into heaven.
Act 10:17 Now while Peter was much perplexed in himself what the vision which he had seen might mean, behold, the men that were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon's house, stood before the gate,
Act 10:18 and called and asked whether Simon, who was surnamed Peter, were lodging there.
Act 10:19 And while Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act 10:20 But arise, and get thee down, and go with them, nothing doubting: for I have sent them.

Goes back to my earlier inheritance example where the pot-smoking kids as well as the adopted kids inherit the land--- your view challenges whether or not the bad ones are really kids

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Again, the dope smokers are the children of the devil.

The seed recepients of the land need not have personal salvation

So God’s Blessings will go to Messiah haters?

OK, let's try Ezekiel 37 again. That did not occur yet, but suppose it has?

Then why did Paul apply it to 1st century Christians? Explain why Paul quoted from this text.

Then who is the one stick and who is the other?

Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his companions; and I will put them with it, even with the stick of Judah,

The House of Judah and the House of Israel.

Maybe this will help

Ten fulfilled in 1948
These 10 Bible prophecies were fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became an independent, united nation for the second time in history, and for the first time in 2,900 years.

Carey, you need to spend less time here: http://www.100prophecies.org/page3.htm

And more time finding answers to my questions.

1.Jacob's descendants would regain control of Israel
Bible passage: Amos 9:14-15
Written: about 750 BC
Fulfilled: Since 1948

Are those verses to be separated from verse 10 which James says was fulfilled in the Church?

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;

I notice a pattern of “gap insertion†in your arguments.

2.Israel would be brought back to life
Bible passage: Ezekiel 37:10-14
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

I dealt with this earlier to which you answered none of my questions.

Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people.
Eze 37:14 And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land: and ye shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken it and performed it, saith Jehovah.

So you believe they “know that He is Jehovah’?
So you believe that God has put His Spirit into them? (I hope its not the same Spirit He put in me)

3.Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day
Bible passage: Isaiah 66:7-8
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: 1948]

Have you actually read those verses?

4.Israel would be re-established as a united nation
Bible passage: Ezekiel 37:21-22
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

I don’t think you’ve actually read these either have you? Again your boys insert a gap from the next verses:

Eze 37:23 neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will save them out of all their dwelling-places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 37:24 And my servant David shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in mine ordinances, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Sound like modern Israel to you?

5.The second Israel would be more impressive than the first
Bible passage: Jeremiah 16:14-15
Written: sometime from 626 to about 586 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

The great Baptist Theologian John Gill:

and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers; which had its accomplishment at their return from the Babylonish captivity; and will be more fully accomplished in the latter day, when the Jews shalt be converted, and return to their own land. Kimchi says this refers to the days of the Messiah, and the gathering of the captives; and some following passages manifestly belong to Gospel times. So Jarchi and Abarbinel understand this and the following of the days of the Messiah.

6.Ezekiel predicted when Israel would be re-established
Bible passage: Ezekiel 4:3-6
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

You’re kidding right?

7.The people of Israel would return to "their own land"
Bible passage: Ezekiel 34:13
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: after May 14, 1948

Adam Clarke:
Eze 34:13 -
I will - feed them upon the mountains - When I bring back the people from their captivity, I will raise up to them a holy and diligent priesthood, who shall in all places give them sound instruction. But this, and some of the following promises, belong to the Christian Church, as we shall find below.

8.God would watch over the people of Israel
Bible passage: Jeremiah 31:10
Written: sometime from 626 to about 586 BC
Fulfilled: 1948, etc.

As I have asked several times with no response, is the New Covenant in effect or not? I can only assume you and Grant Jefferies believe it is not.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Please tell me how anyone is saved.

9.Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful
Bible passage: Leviticus 26:3, 7-8
Written: perhaps around 1400 BC
Fulfilled: 1948-49, 1967, etc.
In Leviticus 26:3, 7-8, the Bible says that the army of Israel would have a supernatural power to prevail during times of conflict, if the people are obedient to the Lord. This Bible passage says that 5 people would be able to chase away 100 people, and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof to this incredible claim? Judge for yourself:

So I guess you believe modern Israel full of agnostics and atheists, and who deny the Messiah are walking in God’s statutes. Strange belief you have.

Lev 26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

10.The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored
Bible passage: Deuteronomy 30:3-5
Written: perhaps 1400 BC
Fulfilled: 1948, etc.

Again, for your sake I hope you just cut and paste these without really reading them:

Deu 30:2 and shalt return unto Jehovah thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul;

If not, then you have a warped view of modern Israel.

 

[lecoop]

Question: can we find a prophecy in the old testament that had only partial fulfillment, and is yet waiting on full or complete fulfilment?

Let me rephrase that: Can we find a "gap" verse?

Notice what Jesus quoted:

Luke 4
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

What was Jesus quoting?

Of course from Isaiah:

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

I have highlighted what Jesus left out, and did not read. Why did Jesus stop reading in the middle of a verse? After He sat down, He continued saying:

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Jesus quoted only the part of that verse that was being fulfilled as they listened that day. However, the remaining part of that one verse: and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; has not be fulfilled yet. We have not yet got to the day of vengence. "That day," as it is written many times, or the "day of the Lord," will start sometime in our near future will the 7th seal.

Therefore, we find an old covenant prophecy that had some part of it fulfilled when Jesus came, and yet right in the middle of a sentence, the rest is yet to be fulfilled.

Therefore, we can look at many prophecies about Israel, and find that they were partially fulfilled in 1948, partially fulfilled in 1967, and yet there is still more to be fulfilled.

One thing is for sure: if God said it, He will bring it to pass.

There is yet to be one day where God will bring all the rest of the Jews to their homeland.:

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

When might this be fulfilled:

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes, God has brought some of Israel back to their homeland, but He will yet bring them all (apparently whether or not they want to come!).

We could cover the prophecy of Joel, but someone already did. It seems that Peter was not as close to the HS as Jesus was, and quoted too far when he quoted Joel, for part of what He quoted is till to have complete fulfillment.

As I read it,
Coop

 

[tim-from-pa]

Preterist:

After all this debating back and forth, actually, I DO believe only those physical seed of Abraham who have changed hearts will ultimately inherit the land. Until that happens, there is the physical seed and the spiritual. But that requires a second coming of Christ, which you do not believe in.

That's why I let God decide who will be ultimate inheritors and in the meantime, one has to assume that there is always room for repentance. God UNCONDITIONALLY promised Abraham to have many (physical) seed inherit the land, become many nations, and one great nation, a lineage of Kings must come from Abraham. That's political my friend.

Just because Jesus stated some of the Jews were children of the devil does not mean they were not physical seed of Abraham. He was referring to their Spiritual father being God, v.s. Satan, and He was referencing the children of Abraham of faith, which they were not. But the Jews were his own people. Now how can Jews be Christ's own people and yet based on what you are saying comparing them as aliens because they had not faith? The answer is by physical lineage.

As for Ezekiel 37, read it carefully. It talks about 2 sticks being rejoined (which you did not answer who each one was yet), it talks about inheriting the land again, King David over them (the throne of David is a continuous earthly throne that the Lord will one day take), and it will over all the house of Jacob.

Now look at the world today without the rose-colored glasses and see nothing like this has ever occurred yet. The world is getting worse and worse and the Kingdom will never come by Christ "reigning in our hearts". The purpose of creation was for God to have sons of God, thru Adam, and this was supposed to be God's Kingdom and Dominion headed by Adam. Adam fell. Now Satan is the God of this world. So, do you think that God would just move His Kingdom "out there" somewhere or "in the hearts of men" while the rest of the world remains unchanged? Indeed, Satan would have won. And Israel was God's chosen (not favorite) people thru which He would show His glory. One way He will do that is to change their hearts again and put them (yes, the family tree of Abraham) back in their land again, and even beforehand, they would rise to great power.

If the physical seed, and genealogies mean nothing to you, then Christ is a sham, for he has a genealogy. And if the promises are not to the physical seed of Abraham, then God was under no obligation to produce Christ, as the people were disobedient to the covenant and exiled long before Christ came. No land, no nation, no Christ.

 

[preterist]

There is yet to be one day where God will bring all the rest of the Jews to their homeland.:

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Is the “in that day†of verse 11 different from the “day†of verse 10?

Isa 11:10 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the root of Jesse, that standeth for an ensign of the peoples, unto him shall the nations seek; and his resting-place shall be glorious.

When might this be fulfilled:

Matt 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John Light foot:

Mat 24:31 -
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[And he shall send his angels, etc.] when Jerusalem shall be reduced to ashes, and that wicked nation cut off and rejected, then shall the Son of man send his ministers with the trumpet of the gospel, and they shall gather together his elect of the several nations from the four corners of heaven: so that God shall not want a church...

We could cover the prophecy of Joel, but someone already did. It seems that Peter was not as close to the HS as Jesus was, and quoted too far when he quoted Joel,

That just about says it all. Either your view is wrong or Peter is wrong. You have made your choice, I have made mine. I’ll stand with Peter.

 

[preterist]

But that requires a second coming of Christ, which you do not believe in.

Sure I do, I just believe it has been fulfilled.

God UNCONDITIONALLY promised Abraham to have many (physical) seed inherit the land, become many nations, and one great nation, a lineage of Kings must come from Abraham. That's political my friend.

Also fulfilled.

Just because Jesus stated some of the Jews were children of the devil does not mean they were not physical seed of Abraham.

I’ve never said otherwise.

As for Ezekiel 37, read it carefully. It talks about 2 sticks being rejoined (which you did not answer who each one was yet)

Of course I did. Eze 37 tells us who they are.

it talks about inheriting the land again, King David over them (the throne of David is a continuous earthly throne that the Lord will one day take), and it will over all the house of Jacob.

Why did Paul quote from Eze 37 and apply it to the Church? I assume you do not know because after 3 requests you still have not answered.

Now look at the world today without the rose-colored glasses and see nothing like this has ever occurred yet. The world is getting worse and worse and the Kingdom will never come by Christ "reigning in our hearts".

Wow, what an absolute failure the Church has been. The very entity Christ came to establish is a failure so I guess Satan wins.

Paul must be wrong yet again:

Eph 3:21 unto him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all generations for ever and ever. Amen.

The purpose of creation was for God to have sons of God, thru Adam, and this was supposed to be God's Kingdom and Dominion headed by Adam. Adam fell.

And who is the second Adam?

Now Satan is the God of this world.

Satan is God of nothing.

So, do you think that God would just move His Kingdom "out there" somewhere or "in the hearts of men" while the rest of the world remains unchanged?

Is the Kingdom observable? Yes or NO?


When will this verse be fulfilled:

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Indeed, Satan would have won.

Satan could never have won.

If the physical seed, and genealogies mean nothing to you, then Christ is a sham, for he has a genealogy.

Not to me He is not. Perhaps in your view. But please show me the importance of your great grandfathers bloodline in the New Covenant. Assuming you believe the New Covenant of Jeremiah is in effect. No one will answer that question either. If we are still under the Old Covenant then perhaps we would find agreement.

And if the promises are not to the physical seed of Abraham, then God was under no obligation to produce Christ,

But you have now said some physical descendants of Abraham will not receive the promises. So in eternity the Jews will have their own special section?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Why did Paul quote from Eze 37 and apply it to the Church? I assume you do not know because after 3 requests you still have not answered.

Before we go on, you realize, I hope, that I believe in Anglo-Israel doctrine, and when Paul was referencing the church, or Gentiles, he oftentimes in fact had in mind the house of Israel--- they became Gentiles. The same people that became the Christian nations ARE (but unbeknownst to themselves) the physical seed of Abraham. The United States is Manasseh, and the British Commonwealth Ephraim. They are the stick of Joseph, and the Jews are the other stick in Ezekiel 37. Yet, they will one day be rejoined. Who sides with Israel already? What nations besides Israel are the most hated? It's in your bible my friend if you can see it.

You may or may not agree with me, but the United States for example was destined to become great just because of the promises to the patriarchs, not per se that we are a Christian nation. However, being Christian are likened to those chosen few that did not bow to Baal. Now I must ask, are all Americans, British or even NW European nations all Christian? Many are, but not all. I will admit that practicing what the Lord wants will preserve us longer otherwise, we will go down the tubes like ancient Israel. God keeps giving His people a chance over and over again, especially for the sakes of those chosen, but they are just hard-headed. Christianity would not have spread being third-world bedraggled converts in a nation here or there. It took the empire and America to become the great missionary & bible societies of the world. And as Paul said,

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

That blindness in part, or "partial blindness" to Israel would happen until the "fulness of the Gentiles come in". That phrase, "fulness of the Gentiles come in" was a quote from Genesis 48:19 where Ephraim shall become many nations (or the fulness of the Gentiles). Ephraim represented GRACE as the tribe of Judah LAW. In other words, Paul was saying that the blindness would be on Israel until it became a commonwealth of nations THEN "in this manner" Israel will be saved (as the gospel is then preached).

So you see, God had these people called out and chosen and will decide who will remain in that olive tree. But if the natural branches were broken off, do not boast, but rather God can graph them in again.... for to Israel are the promises, the covenants.... etc.

 

[preterist]

Before we go on, you realize, I hope, that I believe in Anglo-Israel doctrine, and when Paul was referencing the church, or Gentiles, he oftentimes in fact had in mind the house of Israel---

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

After God had divorced the 10 tribes of Israel they were scattered among the Gentiles. However Jesus told His disciples, long before Paul, to go not to the Gentiles but to the House of Israel. It was in Jesus the 2 sticks were joined together. (The House of Judea and the House of Israel) Jesus was finishing up OT business before Paul went to the Gentiles.

This was the promise of Jeremiah 31:

Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah;
Jer 31:33 but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The same people that became the Christian nations ARE (but unbeknownst to themselves) the physical seed of Abraham. The United States is Manasseh, and the British Commonwealth Ephraim. They are the stick of Joseph, and the Jews are the other stick in Ezekiel 37. Yet, they will one day be rejoined. Who sides with Israel already? What nations besides Israel are the most hated? It's in your bible my friend if you can see it.

Hogwash. This myth has been around for years. http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/churchmovement.asp


So I guess my questions will go unanswered.

 

[tim-from-pa]

[quote:aa71f]Quote:
The same people that became the Christian nations ARE (but unbeknownst to themselves) the physical seed of Abraham. The United States is Manasseh, and the British Commonwealth Ephraim. They are the stick of Joseph, and the Jews are the other stick in Ezekiel 37. Yet, they will one day be rejoined. Who sides with Israel already? What nations besides Israel are the most hated? It's in your bible my friend if you can see it.

Hogwash. This myth has been around for years.[/quote:aa71f]

OK, now we're more in my territory. :-D Then, what does Genesis 35:11 and Genesis 48:19 mean? God made an unconditional covenant to Jacob's seed that they would become many nations. Who fulfilled that? not the Jew. Well, you believe those of faith only perhaps. The church is not many nations. They are comprised of people from many nations but are not many nations: One faith, one Lord, one baptism, etc.

This is political, and if it's political, do you believe that all people in these nations are people of faith? Obviously not. Yet, God promised them because of the faith of the patriarchs. These people in turn would have a subgroup of faith, but always thru the physical lineages. Again, I say genealogy is important as it related to Israel, although you have been claiming it is not important. Christ's lineage is very clearly mentioned.

Now I am willing to keep an open mind that other nations could be the lost tribes if anyone fits the prophecies better. But nobody does.

As for you believing that Ezekiel 37 already occurred, it obviously does not take too much to please you. You must be an easy-going person to be around because I say all one has to do is look around. Is the world getting better or worse? Wars and rumors of wars, natural disasters and so forth. If Ezekiel 37 has been fulfilled, then it is a pretty impotent fulfillment and I would think the skeptics have a right to be that way. God can do a better job than that IMO!

 

[caseypayne1980]

From what I understand. Israel wasn't taken by the Jews but given to them in 1948 after World War II. UN felt sorry for not acting so quickly and letting their millions die by Hitler. So UN took the land of Israel and gave it to the Jews and never paid the Muslims for it. Which is why Muslims are also upset. I believe in the end times with 100% faith. God will literally sit on the thrown again on earth. Of course this is after the rapture. I know rapture isn't written in the bible but the dead 1st rising to christ then the Living. Then Satan gets to run around in full command on earth for 7 years. Anti Christ, Literally walk on earth and governments that don't believe in Jesus and God or just simple think he is Jesus will follow him. He will control the one world nation and force his mark. Christians will be be headed.

PS I pulled some of this info from Israel based history sites.

 

[preterist]

OK, now we're more in my territory.

Yes, because you have refused to answer the questions given to you in the other territory.

Funny, you want me to answer your questions but refuse to answer mine. Well, I can’t say it surprises me in fact I am quite use to it. It seems preterists are forced to defend their positions while the others just ignore the questions posed to them. One reason I was led to my preterist position was because preterist were the only ones that would answer the questions from scripture.

Then, what does Genesis 35:11

I means just what it says and was fulfilled:

John Gill:

a nation, and a company of nations, shall be of thee; the nation of Israel, called so after his name, and the twelve tribes, which were as so many nations, of which the above nation consisted:

and kings shall come out of thy loins; as Saul, David, Solomon, and, many others, who were kings of Israel and of Judah, and especially the King Messiah; yea, all his posterity were kings and priests, or a kingdom of priests, Exo_19:6.

and Genesis 48:19 mean?

Gill again:

but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he; more numerous, as the tribe of Ephraim was, than that of Manasseh, when they came out of Egypt; for in numbering them there appeared to be 8300 more in the one tribe than in the other, Num_1:33, as well as more honourable; Ephraim's standard was placed before Manasseh's, Num_2:18; and upon the division of the tribes in Rehoboam's time, as Jeroboam was of the tribe of Ephraim, that tribe was at the head of the ten tribes, and the seat of the kingdom was in it, and the whole kingdom of Israel often goes by the name of Ephraim:

and his seed shall become a multitude of nations; that is, of families, for as nations are called families, Amo_3:1; so families may be called nations; the Targum of Onkelos is,"his sons shall be rulers among the people,''so Joshua, who was of the tribe of Ephraim, conquered and subdued the nations of the Canaanites, and Jeroboam of this tribe ruled over the ten tribes or nations of Israel: it may be rendered, "his seed shall fill the nations" (t), or be "the fulness" of them; which Jarchi interprets of the whole world being filled with the fame and renown of Joshua, who was of this tribe, when the sun and moon stood still in his days; but it is best to understand this of the large share he should have of the land of Canaan among the rest of the tribes or nations of Israel.


Is this some sort of secret code to you? It seems rather simple and clearly fulfilled.

God made an unconditional covenant to Jacob's seed that they would become many nations. Who fulfilled that?

Jacob’s seed did.

I say genealogy is important as it related to Israel, although you have been claiming it is not important. Christ's lineage is very clearly mentioned.

Once again, it is of no importance in the New Covenant and you have not proved otherwise.

Now I am willing to keep an open mind that other nations could be the lost tribes if anyone fits the prophecies better. But nobody does.

How about the people to whom Jesus sent to convert?

Mat 10:5 Jesus sent out these twelve, commanding them, saying, Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Perhaps everyone in America and Britian should catch the first flight to Israel and claim the land as ours.

As for you believing that Ezekiel 37 already occurred, it obviously does not take too much to please you.

You are correct. Just the words of the inspired Paul. I’ll take Paul over the Identity Movement.

You must be an easy-going person to be around because I say all one has to do is look around. Is the world getting better or worse?

You mean as I sit here in my air-conditioned, house eating my 3 meals a day, checking on my 401k, using a computer that I also use to communicate with people all over the world. The same world that now has access to the Gospel at the touch of a finger.

Yea boy, I sure wished I lived in the good ole days of the Middle Ages.

Wars and rumors of wars, natural disasters and so forth.

Yea, that’s a recent development.

If Ezekiel 37 has been fulfilled, then it is a pretty impotent fulfillment and I would think the skeptics have a right to be that way. God can do a better job than that IMO!

Tell that to Paul. Actually tell God what a failure He is, since He told Paul:


2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


Why does Paul quote Eze 37 and apply it to 1st century Christians if it is still future?

Are we in the New Covenant and is Jeremiah 31:31 fulfilled?

If you can’t answer the questions, then perhaps you should do like Carey and gracefully bow out.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Yes, I think I will bow out. Not because I do not feel I answered your questions, but because when I see large letters that indicates to me that the poster is getting too emotional over the issue.

I never denied what you were saying. Rather, I am saying that just because Paul finds a fulfillment in OT scripture pertaining to the Gentiles (Hosea Chapter 1 for example), does not limit it to one interpretation. Hosea chapter one very clearly addresses the house of Israel literally in our time, but Paul used it to describe believers in the New Covenant. Most prophecy has two or more fulfillments.

I just realize that dice has a six sides, and not just one side or two because that's all I can see.

A closing word from Paul about unbelieving Israel since we all so much believe in what he says,

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Plain and in black and white.

In Jesus Name, Amen.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Oh Preterist, one other thing. I'm not part of any Identity movement, or Armstrong's church or whatever one wants to see me as. JFYI.

 

[preterist]

Yes, I think I will bow out. Not because I do not feel I answered your questions, but because when I see large letters that indicates to me that the poster is getting too emotional over the issue.

More like frustrating. Try carrying on a conversation with someone who ignores your questions. I put them in large print hoping perhaps you would finally answer. It didn’t work.

I never denied what you were saying. Rather, I am saying that just because Paul finds a fulfillment in OT scripture pertaining to the Gentiles (Hosea Chapter 1 for example), does not limit it to one interpretation.

So Eze 37 was fulfilled.

Most prophecy has two or more fulfillments.

I would ask you to prove this, but since I know you won’t answer I will just say: no they don’t. That is an invention of those who don’t like how it was fulfilled the first time.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Plain and in black and white.

Yep, as plain as all the other quotes by Paul that I presented. Paul was saying the Gospel was open to not only the Gentiles but also the physical descendents of Abraham despite the Messiah’s rejection by national Israel.


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Oh Preterist, one other thing. I'm not part of any Identity movement, or Armstrong's church or whatever one wants to see me as. JFYI.

Hard to tell when you refuse to answer questions. I couldn't even get you to tell me if you believed the New Covenant was instituted yet.