What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

1st Century New Believer Teaching A

Jim Parker said:
Sorry. I didn't see this post.
There are several things to consider when discussing the meaning of a word.
They include;
the culture in which the word is used, (Modern western, ancient Chinese, Druidic Britain)
the language itself (English, Urdu, Swahili, Japanese, etc.)
The time of use. (Modern, middle ages, industrial, pre-industrial, stone age, bronze age, iron age, Middle ages)
All of these influence the meaning of a word.

Pederasty is a modern English word which refers to adults having sex with children.
The definition of "adult" and "child" varies from culture to culture.
In modern USA, (and in most of Western Europs, as far as I am aware) our legal definition of "adult" includes being 18 years of age or older while a "child" is under the age of 18.
Other cultures have different views and many girls are married by the time they are 14 to 16 to men in their 20's. (Who are able to support a wife and family.)

Hope that helps
Click to expand...
It's rather very interesting because at the time of Jesus girls were married young; it's believed that Mary was only 15 or 16 years old.
The Didache says NOT to commit pederasty which means that they did not believe young girls should be married to older men, unless, of course, they were agreed to it.

This is definitely a step up from even practices of today in some countries where young girls are promised to older men; making their lives miserable many times because they do not care for the person. (and may even love someone else).
 
wondering said:
It's rather very interesting because at the time of Jesus girls were married young; it's believed that Mary was only 15 or 16 years old.
The Didache says NOT to commit pederasty which means that they did not believe young girls should be married to older men, unless, of course, they were agreed to it.

This is definitely a step up from even practices of today in some countries where young girls are promised to older men; making their lives miserable many times because they do not care for the person. (and may even love someone else).
Click to expand...




I hate to point this out but I don't even think that the Bible states whether or not Mary and Joseph loved each other because I do believe that they had an arranged marriage as well. I know that they accepted their fate, but that's a bit different than actually being in love and being happy about it.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I hate to point this out but I don't even think that the Bible states whether or not Mary and Joseph loved each other because I do believe that they had an arranged marriage as well. I know that they accepted their fate, but that's a bit different than actually being in love and being happy about it.
Click to expand...
We can know that Joseph loved Mary because he could have had her stoned and didn't --- and specifically for this reason he went ahead and married her even though she was expecting and the child was not his own.

I believe that Mary also loved Joseph because she was so happy when she went to visit her cousin Elizabeth. I don't know that she could have been that happy if she felt no love for her husband.
 
wondering said:
We can know that Joseph loved Mary because he could have had her stoned and didn't --- and specifically for this reason he went ahead and married her even though she was expecting and the child was not his own.

I believe that Mary also loved Joseph because she was so happy when she went to visit her cousin Elizabeth. I don't know that she could have been that happy if she felt no love for her husband.
Click to expand...




Whoa, whoa wait a minute. The reason that Joseph did not stone Mary is because the angel visited him in a dream and told him that He was going to be the promised Messiah. If he hadn't of known that he probably would have killed her. However seeing how jealous he was at first, he might have had some romantic feelings for Mary, but I don't see how being excited about going to see her cousin showed that Mary had love for him in return.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
Whoa, whoa wait a minute. The reason that Joseph did not stone Mary is because the angel visited him in a dream and told him that He was going to be the promised Messiah. If he hadn't of known that he probably would have killed her. However seeing how jealous he was at first, he might have had some romantic feelings for Mary, but I don't see how being excited about going to see her cousin showed that Mary had love for him in return.
Click to expand...
Read the beginning of Mathew again and then tell me what you think...

What came first...
The dream, or Joseph's desire to take care of Mary?
 
wondering said:
Read the beginning of Mathew again and then tell me what you think...

What came first...
The dream, or Joseph's desire to take care of Mary?
Click to expand...



Well I'm just going to have to take your word for it because the version of the Bible (Message) that I read doesn't go much into that except Joseph knew of Mary's pregnancy and then he had the dream. For the record though I never said that they didn't care about each other, I just didn't know whether or not they loved each other romantically.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
Well I'm just going to have to take your word for it because the version of the Bible (Message) that I read doesn't go much into that except Joseph knew of Mary's pregnancy and then he had the dream. For the record though I never said that they didn't care about each other, I just didn't know whether or not they loved each other romantically.
Click to expand...
Well, this is very true. Only THEY knew how they loved each other.
But I'd say God sent His only unique Son into a family where love was already present...how else could it be?

As to the beginning of Mathew, for this I believe the NIV explains it well...
Mathew 1:18-21
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
19And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21“She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
 
wondering said:
Well, this is very true. Only THEY knew how they loved each other.
But I'd say God sent His only unique Son into a family where love was already present...how else could it be?

As to the beginning of Mathew, for this I believe the NIV explains it well...
Mathew 1:18-21
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
19And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21“She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
Click to expand...





Agreed, no matter which way it was, I think it's obvious that love was present. :)
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I hate to point this out but I don't even think that the Bible states whether or not Mary and Joseph loved each other because I do believe that they had an arranged marriage as well. I know that they accepted their fate, but that's a bit different than actually being in love and being happy about it.
Click to expand...
Ugh,you really don't understand marraiage,that old threat of divorce legally has kept many,marriages together.

Sometimes ,the love Of God ,nOT necessarily the love for the spouse does that too.even in God ordained married people.

With arranged marriages stop assuming as its like the modern view,these weremt,jacob was told by Isaac that he could go only to Laban, if he rebelled well God would judge him for rebellion to his parents.
 
wondering said:
It's rather very interesting because at the time of Jesus girls were married young; it's believed that Mary was only 15 or 16 years old.
The Didache says NOT to commit pederasty which means that they did not believe young girls should be married to older men, unless, of course, they were agreed to it.

This is definitely a step up from even practices of today in some countries where young girls are promised to older men; making their lives miserable many times because they do not care for the person. (and may even love someone else).
Click to expand...
The age of marriage varies a lot from culture to culture. In those cultures which still value virginity, girls tend to marry earlier (14-16) while, in those cultures which promote sexual promiscuity, like Europe and the USA, they marry later. Promiscuity regularly has as its companion abortion.
 
Jim Parker said:
The age of marriage varies a lot from culture to culture. In those cultures which still value virginity, girls tend to marry earlier (14-16) while, in those cultures which promote sexual promiscuity, like Europe and the USA, they marry later. Promiscuity regularly has as its companion abortion.
Click to expand...
Of course
 
Jim Parker said:
The age of marriage varies a lot from culture to culture. In those cultures which still value virginity, girls tend to marry earlier (14-16) while, in those cultures which promote sexual promiscuity, like Europe and the USA, they marry later. Promiscuity regularly has as its companion abortion.
Click to expand...
There are also medical reasons for marrying young...the bearing of children.
It's safer to have babies at a younger age and there's more energy to raise them.
We seem to be going against nature these days...

I do, however, believe the teens is too young to bear children in our society.
 
wondering said:
There are also medical reasons for marrying young...the bearing of children.
It's safer to have babies at a younger age and there's more energy to raise them.
We seem to be going against nature these days...

I do, however, believe the teens is too young to bear children in our society.
Click to expand...



:amen
 
wondering said:
We seem to be going against nature these days...
Click to expand...
Yes indeed!
wondering said:
I do, however, believe the teens is too young to bear children in our society.
Click to expand...
Our society encourages juvenile behavior and attitudes well beyond what is a reasonable age. (Some people never "grow up".)
In many cultures around the world, children of 4 or 5 years are, of necessity, doing some kind of work to help the family survive. And they don't get any "summer vacation" when they can run around the neighborhood playing with the other children or go surfing with their friends.
The point: adulthood comes early in most of the world. In the west, we postpone it as long as possible (into the twenties for college students) and we do so because we are wealthy and can afford to support our children long after they should be supporting themselves and contributing to the survival of the rest of the family. Farmers understand this better than urban folk. The patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) understood it because they were herdsmen and their children all helped from a very early age.
 
Jim Parker said:
Yes indeed!

Our society encourages juvenile behavior and attitudes well beyond what is a reasonable age. (Some people never "grow up".)
In many cultures around the world, children of 4 or 5 years are, of necessity, doing some kind of work to help the family survive. And they don't get any "summer vacation" when they can run around the neighborhood playing with the other children or go surfing with their friends.
The point: adulthood comes early in most of the world. In the west, we postpone it as long as possible (into the twenties for college students) and we do so because we are wealthy and can afford to support our children long after they should be supporting themselves and contributing to the survival of the rest of the family. Farmers understand this better than urban folk. The patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) understood it because they were herdsmen and their children all helped from a very early age.
Click to expand...
The Peter Pan Syndrome.
Agree with all you've said and can't add too much.
I'll just add that the newer generation doesn't care for responsibility and this is apparent in our children these days...they aren't raised; they just grow. Very few real parents around. Sorry to say.
 
wondering said:
The Peter Pan Syndrome.
Agree with all you've said and can't add too much.
I'll just add that the newer generation doesn't care for responsibility and this is apparent in our children these days...they aren't raised; they just grow. Very few real parents around. Sorry to say.
Click to expand...
This sounds familiar,oh wait it lived with me.ugh.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I hate to point this out but I don't even think that the Bible states whether or not Mary and Joseph loved each other because I do believe that they had an arranged marriage as well. I know that they accepted their fate, but that's a bit different than actually being in love and being happy about it.
Click to expand...

We often make the mistake of thinking the OT is supposed to spell out it's intention for us, when it's really intended to be discussed in community with a capable leader / teacher.

The whole thing about "arranged marriage," and especially from the female perspective, is very much hidden in Scripture rather than being spelled out, because it was part of their culture. It was understood, so therefore it didn't need to be spelled out.

You read through the whole section in the law, but didn't see what it was saying. To begin to grasp this, you first need to come to terms with what was meant by "an honor society," and any way you slice it it will be primitive and barbaric compared to the culture we grew up with today.

Is the effort to learn all that worthwhile, before having applied at least as much effort to the NT? The NT is directly applicable to us now.

The story of Mary and Joseph occurs in the NT, but before the New Covenant is fully in effect; it's a transitional time. The former things of old (including OT law re: arranged marriages) are in the process of being removed, but that culture was still very much in place. So understanding the depths of OT law on this point is what gives insight into this tiny speck of Scripture, that has no real impact on anything we do today.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top