?

[beyondinfinity]

If God is not human... what exactly is he? and isn't it a sin to have pictures of Jesus and to wear crosses? I'm so confused. People say it's a sin because they are creating images of heaven and other people say it's not and I just don't get it.

 

[Knotical]

God is a spirit, pure and simple. He has no physical form as we know a human to have.

As for images, there are many differing opinions on it, but you can make an argument that making an image of God, Jesus, etc... could be a breaking of the second commandment. Though many will say it has to do with the reason for why the image was made. Is it being used as a focus of worship, or is it just a decorative piece.

This could open a can of worms.

 

[reba]

On many subjects we can have different views. I wont have a 'picture' of Jesus just cause most of them make Him look like a European which He was not... I do like the one showing the nail prints in "His' hands,,, yet I believe He worked as a carpentered and His hands would be rough and not look at anything like that picture.. ....Folks get carried away on lots of things... Read his Word and see what it says to you. Like Knot says a can of worms

 

[Obadiah]

In my opinion when people say you can't have pictures of Jesus or crosses, etc, etc, they are taking a phrase of scripture out of context and misinterpreting it. The verse is Exodus 20:4a, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image". The word translated to "graven image" here is "pecel" which can either refer to an idol or just to any image or likeness of something. So we have to look at the context and also use a little common sense to know how the word is being used.

The complete passage concerning this says "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God..." (Exodus 20:4-5a) When reading this in context with verse 5a ("Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them...") it becomes clear that God was referring to images that were used as idols, not just any image such as a common picture or statue.

There are people even today who will do things such as pray to a picture or statue of Jesus (or a cross, or other such thing), and I feel when they are actually praying to the picture or statue they have made it into an idol, in violation of this commandment. However when it is simply a reminder of God, there is no violation. They are not "bowing down" (praying too) or "serving" the image itself, only God whom it represents.

I've found that a lot of people who say it is a sin to have any of these things are many times simply repeating what they have heard from others and have never really thought through the reasons behind what they are saying. When you ask them to explain themselves in light of the context of scripture, they usually can't. In fact, sometimes they will actually get mad at you for daring to question them! That's usually part of a smoke screen they use to try to cover up their own ignorance. So, at least in my opinion based on the reasons I stated, I don't see any sin in having pictures of Jesus, crosses, or any other "images" that simply serve as reminders and are not worshiped or idolized.

 

[evenifigoalone]

My dad used to quote something about wearing a cross around your neck being a curse, but I looked and could find no such verse in the Bible.
Personally, I like cross necklaces and I had one that I was pretty fond of. I agree it's not a problem unless you're actually worshiping the symbol instead of God.

Pictures of Jesus...well, as pointed out, many of those are actually very inaccurate. xD That doesn't make them sinful, though.

 

[Obadiah]

My dad used to quote something about wearing a cross around your neck being a curse, but I looked and could find no such verse in the Bible.

There isn't any that I know of. This is the first time I've heard of anyone saying this is a curse. Thanks for the new info.

 

[Sparkey]

One example that we do see is when Moses returned and saw the golden calf. That speaks more to me than most other thoughts I've heard.

I do like the understanding we are arriving at here. God first. Don't worship elsewhere. Many will speak about the "mark of the beast" but fail to notice that those who worship are included in Rev 13:4,8,12,15

Not sure if that directly applies to crafting images, but seems to go toward the command not to worship others before God.

Curious readers will want to see Ex 20:3, Ex 20:23, Ex 32:8, Ex 34:14, Deut 6:14, 2 Kings 17:35, Ps 81:9, Isa 42:8, Jer 7:9 and

"But I am the LORD your God, [who brought you] out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior except me.

 

[Sparkey]

My dad used to quote something about wearing a cross around your neck being a curse, but I looked and could find no such verse in the Bible.
Personally, I like cross necklaces and I had one that I was pretty fond of. I agree it's not a problem unless you're actually worshiping the symbol instead of God.

Pictures of Jesus...well, as pointed out, many of those are actually very inaccurate. xD That doesn't make them sinful, though.

Deut 21:23 is sometimes used in conjunction with Gal 3:13 for this purpose.

 

[Obadiah]

One example that we do see is when Moses returned and saw the golden calf. That speaks more to me than most other thoughts I've heard...

Of course, while Moses had been gone, the people made the golden calf and decided they were going to worship it. They didn't just make it as a piece of art.

 

[WIP]

and isn't it a sin to have pictures of Jesus and to wear crosses? I'm so confused. People say it's a sin because they are creating images of heaven and other people say it's not and I just don't get it.

One thing to keep in mind....Nobody has a picture of Jesus.

Here's how I see it.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God

My understanding of a "graven image" is one that is used as an idol. That is why God continued with verse 5 above. So then, what is an idol? My understanding of the definition of an idol is an image, object, or idea that is the focus of worship. So what is worship? My understanding of "worship" is to hold something in high esteem or high regard or to place it above other things.

 

[beyondinfinity]

Thank you everyone for increasing my understanding. it makes sense.

 

[farouk]

My dad used to quote something about wearing a cross around your neck being a curse, but I looked and could find no such verse in the Bible.
Personally, I like cross necklaces and I had one that I was pretty fond of. I agree it's not a problem unless you're actually worshiping the symbol instead of God.

Pictures of Jesus...well, as pointed out, many of those are actually very inaccurate. xD That doesn't make them sinful, though.

questdriven:

Some people are into jewelry more than others are.

I don't wear a cross myself.

Of course, there is far more to jewelry than what is worn round the neck!

Blessings.

 

[evenifigoalone]

questdriven:

Some people are into jewelry more than others are.

I don't wear a cross myself.

Of course, there is far more to jewelry than what is worn round the neck!

Blessings.

I have a necklace with a mustard seed in it that an old friend once gave to me.

 

[farouk]

I have a necklace with a mustard seed in it that an old friend once gave to me.

questdriven:

Interesting, kind of instructive, and a conversation stimulant, I guess, 'faith as a grain of mustard seed' (Matthew 17.20), I guess.

People often find that such things help in witness conversations.

This is why some people wear faith related jewelry, really, I guess. (Similar argument for things like tattoo designs with faith content, I reckon, though this is an aspect for an existing thread.)

Blessings.

 

[WIP]

Of course, there is far more to jewelry than what is worn round the neck!

I would view this statement more accurately if the word "is" was replaced with "can be."

 

[farouk]

I would view this statement more accurately if the word "is" was replaced with "can be."

WIP: Indeed, both are grammatically possible.

Would you care to elaborate why the grammar of one is better than the other, maybe?

(Perhaps I've missed something.)

Blessings.

 

[WIP]

Certainly. "Is" implies a guarantee. Jewelry does not "always" contain "far more" implications. Give me a diamond or a chunk of granite and it makes no difference because to me, both are nothing more than pieces of stone from the ground.

 

[DiscipleDave]

If God is not human... what exactly is he? and isn't it a sin to have pictures of Jesus and to wear crosses? I'm so confused. People say it's a sin because they are creating images of heaven and other people say it's not and I just don't get it.

God does not care, if you wear a cross or not. He does not care if you have pictures of His Son Jesus Christ, as long as you do worship or idolize those things.
What God does care about is if you are LOVING ONE ANOTHER.

When you stand before God on Judgment Day, whether you were wearing a cross or not will not even be brought up. What sins you have or have not committed will not be brought up either. What you will be judged on, is how much you have loved others, AND how much you have failed to love others when you had the opportunity to love them.

Dave steals something from Robert. On Judgment Day when Dave stands before Jesus Christ to to be Judged, Dave will not be judged of breaking the commandment Thou shalt not steal. He is going to be judged why he FAILED to love Robert. If Dave Truly loved Robert, he would not have stole from him.

It is not our sins that will be judged, but our love for one another, this is what will be judged. Are you loving as Christ loved? That is the question.

^i^

 

[farouk]

Certainly. "Is" implies a guarantee. Jewelry does not "always" contain "far more" implications. Give me a diamond or a chunk of granite and it makes no difference because to me, both are nothing more than pieces of stone from the ground.

WIP:

Interesting and thought-provoking reflections. Thank-you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The problem is (was) how do you make a representation of the perfect and eternal God?

"With whom, then, will you compare God?
To what image will you liken him?"
(Isaiah 40:18 NIV)


Any effort coming from man's limited understanding and revelation of God to accurately depict the living God would fall miserably short and not accurately portray who God is. Any 'less than God' image we did fashion would be nothing more than a false god, a false idol. But now that Christ has appeared, we now have a true image of God. Christ is the authorized and accurate image of God:

"15 The Son is the image of the invisible God..." (Colossians 1:15 NIV)

Creating an image of God that doesn't accurately portray God has the potential of drawing us into worship of something that God isn't (aka, a false god) and leading us away from God. But God has revealed himself in the image of Christ. Christ is the authorized image of God erected in the earth.

Does that mean it's important that we know Christ may or may not have looked like a 17th century Fabio? IMO, no. What's important is that we know the image of Christ through whom we worship God the Father through is his character. That is the exact image of the invisible God that he represents:

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being..." (Hebrews 1:3 NIV)