A Bizarre Passage in Revelation 20

[Stormcrow]

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

Hades (Sheol) is the "underworld" meaning a holding place for souls who died prior to Christ's death and resurrection. (Hades is also the name of the mythological Greek deity who oversees the underworld.)

Satan had the keys to this realm, but when Christ was in the tomb, He stormed the gates of hell and took the keys of death and hell away from Satan. Death (Thanatos) and Hell (Hades) could not keep Christ in the tomb and so when He arose on the third day, many who had died were raised with Him, freed from the bondage of the grave and the underworld.

{52} The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints [lit. holy ones] who had fallen asleep were raised; {53} and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53 (NASB)

Now, if you want to do an interesting study, look at the Greek words "Thanatos", "Hades", and "Tartarus", and you'll begin to understand their respective roles in the Bible.

 

[jasoncran]

Hades (Sheol) is the "underworld" meaning a holding place for souls who died prior to Christ's death and resurrection. (Hades is also the name of the mythological Greek deity who oversees the underworld.)

Satan had the keys to this realm, but when Christ was in the tomb, He stormed the gates of hell and took the keys of death and hell away from Satan. Death (Thanatos) and Hell (Hades) could not keep Christ in the tomb and so when He arose on the third day, many who had died were raised with Him, freed from the bondage of the grave and the underworld.

{52} The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints [lit. holy ones] who had fallen asleep were raised; {53} and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53 (NASB)

Now, if you want to do an interesting study, look at the Greek words "Thanatos", "Hades", and "Tartarus", and you'll begin to understand their respective roles in the Bible.

uh pete was wrong as he said that behold we have david's grave to this day. i take that he meant david is still dead.

 

[Stormcrow]

Beyond any question, hades is a place of death, darkness & silence.

She'ol[3] is the earliest conception of the afterlife in the Jewish scriptures. It is a place of darkness to which all dead go, regardless of the moral choices made in life, and where they are "removed from the light of God" (see the Book of Job). In the Tanakh sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job.

When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BCE the word "hades" (underworld) was substituted for "sheol". (see Hellenistic Judaism).

The New Testament (written in Greek) also uses "hades" to refer to the abode of the dead. (Revelation 20:13) The belief that those in sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment may be reflected in the story of the New Testament of Lazarus and Dives.[4]

In older Greek myths, the realm of Hades is the misty and gloomy[17] abode of the dead (also called Erebus), where all mortals go. Later Greek philosophy introduced the idea that all mortals are judged after death and are either rewarded or cursed.

In both Rabbinical Jewish and Early Christian writing, Gehenna was a destination of the wicked.[citation needed] This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, though the King James version of the Bible traditionally translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.

In classic mythology, below Uranus (sky), Gaia (earth), and Pontus (sea) is Tartarus, or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is a deep, gloomy place, a pit, or an abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides beneath the underworld. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were sent to Tartarus.

So here we have at least four words describing two different ideas:

Sheol/Hades: The underworld. A "holding cell" for those waiting to be tried and judged. Think of it as the "holding cell" in a modern jail, where prisoners are kept until they go before the judge.

Gehenna/Tartarus: A place of torment where the wicked are thrown after judgement.

Here's the problem: various translators of the New Testament throughout the years have lumped all of these words together under one "catch-all" word we know as "hell." However, to the ancient civilizations of the Jews, Greeks, and Romans, these words expressed different ideas, as outlined above.

Now, when we add in the Greek word "Thanatos", we have a fifth word describing a third idea: death.

The Greek poet Hesiod established in his Theogony that Thánatos is a son of Nyx (Night) and Erebos (Darkness) and twin of Hypnos (Sleep).

"And there the children of dark Night have their dwellings, Sleep and Death, awful gods. The glowing Sun never looks upon them with his beams, neither as he goes up into heaven, nor as he comes down from heaven. And the former of them roams peacefully over the earth and the sea's broad back and is kindly to men; but the other [Thanatos] has a heart of iron, and his spirit within him is pitiless as bronze: whomsoever of men he has once seized he holds fast: and he is hateful even to the deathless gods." [1]


​

Thanatos was loosely associated with the three Moirai (for Hesiod, also daughters of Night), particularly Atropos, who was a goddess of death in her own right. He is also occasionally specified as being exclusive to peaceful death, while the bloodthirsty Keres embodied violent death.

The Greek word Thanatos is used here:

{8} I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death [Thanatos]; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth. Revelation 6:8 (NASB)

Thanatos connotes physical death, which precedes the soul's imprisonment in Hades.

So to put these three ideas together the way the ancients would have understood them is to see Thanatos (death) as the death of the body (going to the grave) while the soul would be sent to Hades where the person's consciousness remained until the judgement. Upon judgement, the wicked would be cast into Tartarus, the place of torment.

Here's the kicker: parts of the grave (Thanatos) and Hades were emptied when Christ rose from the dead (Matt.27:52-53). These would have been the righteous "first fruits" of Christ's resurrection. The remainder of the grave and Hades would have been/will be emptied at the final judgement (whenever you believe that was/will be).

But the important thing to remember is that Thanatos is death or the grave where the body goes. The dead body possesses no consciousness while Hades contains/contained the conscious, immortal soul held until judgement.

The single word "Hell" simply does not convey the complexities of these ideas.

For what it's worth.

 

[Stormcrow]

uh pete was wrong as he said that behold we have david's grave to this day. i take that he meant david is still dead.

Reference please, so we can all read along?

 

[Vince]

Well, we're learning a lot about the different Greek words for the afterlife.

When I ask for a verse telling us that people in Hades cannot be saved, the most frequent response is Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"

However, Revelation 20:13 tells us that this judgment takes place after the dead in Hades are resurrected: "The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works."

Between death and judgment, can a person in Hades accept Christ?

 

[jasoncran]

Reference please, so we can all read along?

acts 2 kjv

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses

 

[Stormcrow]

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts was written during the apostolic period between Christ's resurrection and His return in judgement on Jerusalem.

Now follow me closely here...

The resurrection of the saints (literally "holy ones") was for Daniel and his people:

{1} "Now *at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

{2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

*This vision from God is given to Daniel for "his people" and it refers to "the end of the age."

{13} "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age." Daniel 12:13 (NASB)

In verse 13, Daniel is told to go his way until the end of his life, then he would "enter into rest" and "rise again at the end of the age" where he would receive his reward ("allotted portion.")

(On a side note, here in verse 13 you have a picture of the Greek view of death (Thanatos), "rest" (Hades), and resurrection, but I digress).

So the question is, what is the end of the age and when did it come?

The NT gives us clues:

{11} Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11 (NASB)

{26} Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the *consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26 (NASB)

(*Completion, perfection, fulfillment.)

{6} Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; {7} but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; {8} the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (NASB)

The "end of the age" is when the resurrection of Daniel's people occurs, and in all of the verses cited above, Paul makes it clear that the people to whom he was writing were living during that time.

Therefore, the resurrection of Daniel and his people coincides with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, when the smallest letter and stroke of the Law was fulfilled:

{18} "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)

{21} "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time...Daniel 12:1

In conclusion, the resurrection was for Daniel and his people coming at the end of the age, when the smallest letter and stroke of the Law would be fulfilled. That happened in 70 AD. When Acts was written, Daniel was still in the grave. He was not there after Jerusalem and the temple fell: he was raised from the dead and given an incorruptible body, just as every Christian today will get the moment we pass "from life to life."

Daniel and his people died and slept in the ground while their souls languished in Hades. Hades was fully emptied at the "end of the age" of the Law and remains empty to this day, as the souls of the righteous go straight to the Father when we die:

{21} For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. {22} But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. {23} But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; Philippians 1:21-23 (NASB)

The moment a believer leaves the flesh he or she enters the presence of Christ. There is no more "resting" in Hades. We will all "rest" in Christ.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vince]

My friend Stormcrow writes:

"Hades was fully emptied at the "end of the age" of the Law and remains empty to this day, as the souls of the righteous go straight to the Father when we die:"

Then where do the wicked go when they die?

 

[jasoncran]

Acts was written during the apostolic period between Christ's resurrection and His return in judgement on Jerusalem.

Now follow me closely here...

The resurrection of the saints (literally "holy ones") was for Daniel and his people:

{1} "Now *at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

{2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

*This vision from God is given to Daniel for "his people" and it refers to "the end of the age."

{13} "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age." Daniel 12:13 (NASB)

In verse 13, Daniel is told to go his way until the end of his life, then he would "enter into rest" and "rise again at the end of the age" where he would receive his reward ("allotted portion.")

(On a side note, here in verse 13 you have a picture of the Greek view of death (Thanatos), "rest" (Hades), and resurrection, but I digress).

So the question is, what is the end of the age and when did it come?

The NT gives us clues:

{11} Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11 (NASB)

{26} Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the *consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26 (NASB)

(*Completion, perfection, fulfillment.)

{6} Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; {7} but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; {8} the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (NASB)

The "end of the age" is when the resurrection of Daniel's people occurs, and in all of the verses cited above, Paul makes it clear that the people to whom he was writing were living during that time.

Therefore, the resurrection of Daniel and his people coincides with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, when the smallest letter and stroke of the Law was fulfilled:

{18} "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)

{21} "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time...Daniel 12:1

In conclusion, the resurrection was for Daniel and his people coming at the end of the age, when the smallest letter and stroke of the Law would be fulfilled. That happened in 70 AD. When Acts was written, Daniel was still in the grave. He was not there after Jerusalem and the temple fell: he was raised from the dead and given an incorruptible body, just as every Christian today will get the moment we pass "from life to life."

Daniel and his people died and slept in the ground while their souls languished in Hades. Hades was fully emptied at the "end of the age" of the Law and remains empty to this day, as the souls of the righteous go straight to the Father when we die:

{21} For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. {22} But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. {23} But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; Philippians 1:21-23 (NASB)

The moment a believer leaves the flesh he or she enters the presence of Christ. There is no more "resting" in Hades. We will all "rest" in Christ.

Hope this helps.

sigh, you claim that has passsed that which is perfect came? if so why wasnt the bible even put together till 400 yrs after that fact, and uh saints rose as christ preached to the men in hades.saint rose after his death and minister wasnt david in hades then, yup. so either he did get raised and he was buried in jerusalem. so then who was raised by the lord. this isnt so cut and dry as the statement of being in christ is off by the way you say that. as if the judgment and end of time for all men hasnt occured we dont have the perfect bodies. do we. we die and we arent raised in heaven

" and the rest of the dead live not again till after the thousand yrs." where are these dead saints ie john whom died after ad 70. he isnt in heaven is he? didnt make that paroisa as he got left behind. he was the last apostle to die.

so theres no need to pray to the lord for healings per james or other gifts let alone church gifts. so why then do we have church these days if all that remains is love per corinthians 13?

the body still needs prophets, pastors and teachers and healers etc. death still reigns on this side men die and animals. the earth has yet to be redeemed in the natural. sorry there will come a day where men wont eat animals and neither will there be fear tween the two but peace.

the meek inherent the earth not heaven. we die but we dont stay in heaven.

per matthew 5.

angelic bodies arent what paul spoke about . so God just lets the earth Go? doesnt care for the the earth. for if sooner or later the sun will die out. and all life , which oddly the whole creation cries for redemption, and death of that nature isnt redemptive at all.

i will destroy them that destroy the earth., hmm odd when did that happen. who destroyed isreal or the earth.

was their sorrow in heaven, death , why then would he say this in revalation 22

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

for the record i dont think men still go to hades only the jews do that and them in the past, if you take note the idea is places where the dead might be. hades, the sea and death its self.

all are emptied in judgement, so if that only applied to the jews in isreal and no gentile saint. as well surely there were gentile that died ere ad 70 that i guess didnt make that ressurection either. if the ressurection has happened what then again will happen to the saints of today? keep in mind you claim that is the past according to your view.

and also why does it say in heaven as that according to you is where we are, no more curse, but rather it should have stated their is no curse in heaven. but it didnt

 

[Stormcrow]

I only present the facts as I see them. Whether you agree with them or not is entirely up to you.

 

[Stormcrow]

My friend Stormcrow writes:

"Hades was fully emptied at the "end of the age" of the Law and remains empty to this day, as the souls of the righteous go straight to the Father when we die:"

Then where do the wicked go when they die?

A place of eternal torment. A place where Jesus said there would be "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

{47} "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; {48} and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. {49} "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, {50} and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:47-50 (NASB)

The lake of fire remains open for business. It is anything but a place of rest.

 

[jasoncran]

A place of eternal torment. A place where Jesus said there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

{47} "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; {48} and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. {49} "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, {50} and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:47-50 (NASB)

The lake of fire remains open for business. It is anything but a place of rest.

so who my friend is satan now? and where is he if he aint in hell. i dont think you can really expect to say that satan isnt doing his thing that men alone are that evil. evil seems to be pretty strong and stronger. we men find more ways to kill then to help. yes men by themselves are evil but i think satan also is behind much of that.

 

[Stormcrow]

so who my friend is satan now? and where is he if he aint in hell.

Define "hell" given one of the Greek words provided earlier.

i dont think you can really expect to say that satan isnt doing his thing that men alone are that evil. evil seems to be pretty strong and stronger. we men find more ways to kill then to help. yes men by themselves are evil but i think satan also is behind much of that.

I'm not an expert on that which constitutes Satanic evil versus human evil. Maybe someone else can help answer those questions for you.

 

[jasoncran]

Define "hell" given one of the Greek words provided earlier.



I'm not an expert on that which constitutes Satanic evil versus human evil. Maybe someone else can help answer those questions for you.

satan isnt gone or that odd thing which you cant explain, i have seen it personally ever get inot the ouija and try to burn it? it doesnt burn so easily, and if the person that tries to burn it isnt saved then most likely it wont burn.

odd if hell aka gehanna is where all those creatures are.


also can you , since you are pro-catholic. tell the pope not to have the rcc do exorcisms as that isnt real as satan and his minions cant posses souls. the same would also apply to the other chruches.

i know a friend who is dating a girl who was possesed. i wont go into that story but it was kinda of interesting what happened when he prayed over her and the devil left. i would have to ask him to be sure on the details. fake as well?

 

[Stormcrow]

satan isnt gone or that odd thing which you cant explain, i have seen it personally ever get inot the ouija and try to burn it? it doesnt burn so easily, and if the person that tries to burn it isnt saved then most likely it wont burn.

odd if hell aka gehanna is where all those creatures are.

also can you , since you are pro-catholic. tell the pope not to have the rcc do exorcisms as that isnt real as satan and his minions cant posses souls. the same would also apply to the other chruches.

i know a friend who is dating a girl who was possesed. i wont go into that story but it was kinda of interesting what happened when he prayed over her and the devil left. i would have to ask him to be sure on the details. fake as well?

You insist on raising issues both beyond the scope of this thread and what I have already admitted to you I am not an expert on. Then you insist on attributing words and ideas to me I have not expressed!

If you would like to address what I posted specifically in a calm and rational manner, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. But if this is your idea of "discussion", count me out!

Now I see why Hitch loses patience with you! 2

 

[jasoncran]

You insist on raising issues both beyond the scope of this thread and what I have already admitted to you I am not an expert on. Then you insist on attributing words and ideas to me I have not expressed!

If you would like to address what I posted specifically in a calm and rational manner, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. But if this is your idea of "discussion", count me out!

Now I see why Hitch loses patience with you! 2

so you havent done your reasearch then, if christ came again..

that that which is perfect(the end of the apostolic age.) came. no more death, correct, so by saying that hades, hell and death were cast in the to fiery lake what threat to men exists today as far eternal destiny?

so you dont claim that revalation is in the past that vs from revalation 22 isnt fulfilled that theres still death and sorrow on the earth ?

odd, that is what you meant by this.

{47} "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; {48} and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. {49} "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, {50} and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:47-50 (NASB)

is that not what stating the end of the age or that which is perfect came. the gifts werent only till then, so if you cant answer that then your idea of its all over and done in revalation is shot. Christ came and gave gifts to men and they are listed in the epistles of paul(first corinthians).

Acts was written during the apostolic period between Christ's resurrection and His return in judgement on Jerusalem.]

and this verse in corinthians 13

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

 

[jasoncran]

it wasnt my intent to twist your words. you may not have intended to put it that way but if he came and we are in the perfect age. then your doctrine or mine needs adjustment. God is still active on this earth. men die in sin and also are saved.


you might want to read up on what paul said in ephasian where we war not against fleash and blood but against principalities and high places.. if satan is gone then whom are we are warring against on false doctrines and religions.


the jews are still blind to this day. athiests deny God and despite great leaps of logicl accept wierd possibilities of alternate creative accounts. something is driving that as even some of them that dont believe in God say those theories arent happening and are berated for stating that.

 

[Stormcrow]

I'm sorry, Jason. I have neither the time, energy, nor patience right now to tutor you in these areas. Get yourself a good study Bible and a concordance and spend a little time researching these issues yourself.

Peace. Out.

 

[Vince]

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What are "Death" and "Hades"?

This is right after the resurrection of the wicked, so no one is in Hades and no one is dead. Is the literal, physical area known as Hades cast into the Lake of Fire? If so, Hades is a very small place.

Paul wrote that the pagan gods are actually demons. Does the passage refer to Thanatos (god of death) and Hades (ruler of the kingdom of Hades)? The phrase "This is the second death" doesn't support that.