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Bible Study A Christian !?

T

twinc

Member
It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit whereas Jesus was - any comments - twinc
 
twinc said:
It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit whereas Jesus was - any comments - twinc
Click to expand...
Where do you get the information that none of them were born of water and spirit?
You cannot make an argument based on what the scriptures do NOT say.

iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker said:
Where do you get the information that none of them were born of water and spirit?
You cannot make an argument based on what the scriptures do NOT say.

iakov the fool
Click to expand...


it is not in the scriptures so why is it believed or accepted and on whose authority and say so - twinc
 
twinc said:
it is not in the scriptures so why is it believed or accepted and on whose authority and say so - twinc
Click to expand...
I am referring to what YOU said in your original post that is not in the scriptures. ("It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit...")
I am not referring to what is "believed or accepted" by others.

John's baptism was for repentance and remission of sin. (Luke 3:1-3)
Jesus had no sin (Heb 4:15) and, therefore, has no need of such a baptism Baptism.

What Jesus accomplished by requiring John to Baptize Him was:
(1) He affirmed John's ministry.
(2) He was revealed by the Father and the Holy Spirit to be the Christ.
(3) He identified Himself with the people.
(4) He prefigured His death thereby giving baptism its ultimate meaning.
(5) By entering the waters, He sanctified the water of baptism.
(6) He fulfilled types of the Old Testament such as Moses crossing the Red sea and Joshua crossing the Jordan.
(7) He opened heaven to a world separated from God by sin.

iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker said:
I am referring to what YOU said in your original post that is not in the scriptures. ("It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit...")
I am not referring to what is "believed or accepted" by others.

John's baptism was for repentance and remission of sin. (Luke 3:1-3)
Jesus had no sin (Heb 4:15) and, therefore, has no need of such a baptism Baptism.

What Jesus accomplished by requiring John to Baptize Him was:
(1) He affirmed John's ministry.
(2) He was revealed by the Father and the Holy Spirit to be the Christ.
(3) He identified Himself with the people.
(4) He prefigured His death thereby giving baptism its ultimate meaning.
(5) By entering the waters, He sanctified the water of baptism.
(6) He fulfilled types of the Old Testament such as Moses crossing the Red sea and Joshua crossing the Jordan.
(7) He opened heaven to a world separated from God by sin.

iakov the fool
Click to expand...


all this as a result of misinterpretation and misunderstanding - Jesus did not and could not sin but He was made sin for us some say even from His mother's womb - twinc
 
twinc said:
It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit whereas Jesus was - any comments - twinc
Click to expand...
John the Baptist came TO baptize. The Apostles were mostly Baptized by John. I don't remember if stated about Paul,or Mary,but being certain of their belief in Christ,I'm sure they took the plunge.
 
Jim Parker said:
I am referring to what YOU said in your original post that is not in the scriptures. ("It seems that Paul, Mary, the Apostles and even John the Baptist were not Christians, as not born of water and the spirit...")
I am not referring to what is "believed or accepted" by others.

John's baptism was for repentance and remission of sin. (Luke 3:1-3)
Jesus had no sin (Heb 4:15) and, therefore, has no need of such a baptism Baptism.

What Jesus accomplished by requiring John to Baptize Him was:
(1) He affirmed John's ministry.
(2) He was revealed by the Father and the Holy Spirit to be the Christ.
(3) He identified Himself with the people.
(4) He prefigured His death thereby giving baptism its ultimate meaning.
(5) By entering the waters, He sanctified the water of baptism.
(6) He fulfilled types of the Old Testament such as Moses crossing the Red sea and Joshua crossing the Jordan.
(7) He opened heaven to a world separated from God by sin.

iakov the fool
Click to expand...


what really happened at Jesus' baptism happens at our baptism but only for ears that hear and eyes that see but for others just a rumble or nothing at all - so guess what happened and happens at baptism - twinc
 
That was 2 of John's disciples not Messiah's disciples as he did not have any at that time.....
John 1
35 Again the next day John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he said, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
You can surmise they were baptized but no scriptural support......
QUOTE="joseph lentz, post: 1313554, member: 10253"]John 1:35-37
Maybe not most,but a couple.[/QUOTE]
 
I'm thinking physical water baptism is getting greatly mixed up with spiritual baptism.

That which is of the flesh is flesh, and that of the Spirit is Spirit.

The two cannot be mixed (it really becomes mud if you try).
 
civilwarbuff said:
That was 2 of John's disciples not Messiah's disciples as he did not have any at that time.....
John 1
35 Again the next day John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he said, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
You can surmise they were baptized but no scriptural support......
QUOTE="joseph lentz, post: 1313554, member: 10253"]John 1:35-37
Maybe not most,but a couple.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
You make a valid point .......thanks
 
twinc said:
all this as a result of misinterpretation and misunderstanding - Jesus did not and could not sin but He was made sin for us some say even from His mother's womb - twinc
Click to expand...
Sorry, twinc, you're not making sense.
You do not seem to be able to respond to what was posted to you. Your responses are different topics.
 
twinc said:
what really happened at Jesus' baptism happens at our baptism
Click to expand...
Rom 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

So you're saying that Jesus was baptized into His own death and that Jesus was buried with himself into his own death.

How does that make sense?
 
Jim Parker said:
Rom 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

So you're saying that Jesus was baptized into His own death and that Jesus was buried with himself into his own death.

How does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Jim Parker said:
Rom 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

So you're saying that Jesus was baptized into His own death and that Jesus was buried with himself into his own death.

How does that make sense?
Click to expand...


I of course refer to Matt 3:16-17 not Rom 6 - twinc
 
civilwarbuff said:
There is no mention in scripture if the apostles were baptized by John; they were, however baptized by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
Click to expand...

it is not really realised what Pentecost was really about - it certainly was not about talking gibberish and nonsense - twinc
 
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