A completely GOOD God ~ A completely EVIL Satan?

[Guest]

I find it rather odd that we have two complete polar opposites in God and Satan. One that ONLY does and thinks good, . . . while the other ONLY does and things evil. It seems more like a mythological story when you place such extremes upon two specific beings, doesn't it?

You have God, who apparently can do no wrong, cannot "sin", . . . then you have Satan, who apparently can do nothing good and continually sins. Does anyone else see how fantastic these premises are?

 

[MrVersatile48]

Saving faith is not just accepting that God exists, but taking Him at His Word

Isaiah & Jeremiah both liken God to a potter & us to clay & say that the clay cannot judge the potter, but the potter must judge the clay

Romans 12:1 kinda says that the only reasonable, rational response to all the wonderful things God has done for us is to be 100% wholehearted for Him

Romans 1:20 says that, from seeing just creation, no-one has any excuse

More Bible prophecies have come true since 1948 saw the oft-predicted rebirth of Israel - (as in Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36 & Matt 24, etc) - that at any time since Jesus was on Earth

His 1st coming fulfilled @ 300 prophecies

There are even more @ His return, because 'the consummation of all things' - the fulfilling of God's purposes - is what is most important to Him

Jesus called Satan the father of lies..the great deceiver..the enemy of souls

He said, 'If you are ashamed of Me & of My words, I will be ashamed of you'

He said, 'If you deny Me before men, I will deny you...'

Must go!

Ian

 

[Guest]

Still sounds like something that men would "make up", such polar opposites. What would be the odds of a completely good being and a COMPLETELY EVIL being? And the fact that God made him, knowing that Satan would eventually BE completely evil? :-?

 

[Rob]

It seems to me that you are trying to grasp why God would create Satan or if God created evil. First let me say that evil is not a creation, it is the absence of good much like dark doesn't exist but is an absence of light. No man can fully understand God's plan and I don't think anyone can fully understand why an all knowing God would create something knowing that it would become evil. Best I can assume is that from this evil a greater good will happen. I do know that a big part of your answer has to do with free will. Free will has to be there because God places a great value on love and anything created that can't choose not to love is thereby forced to love and therefore doesn't really show love(I hope that makes sense I'm not really very awake I'm about ready for bed lol)

The best way I can explain it is like this,

There is a king who is ruler of a great kingdom, this king is loved by the people and a great ruler. This king had a general whom he held in high regard and gave a great deal of power to for his loyalty. One day this general got power hungry and decided to try to take the throne from the king, but the king being so powerful was able to stop the attempt and banished this general from his kingdom. This general spent the rest of his days with a great deal of hate for this king because he felt he deserved the kingdom, thus he spent the rest of his days plotting and planning his moves for another attempt at taking the throne.

I know that is a kind of corny example but it's the best I can do, at least this late. God created Satan to do good for him but God also gave Satan free will. It is Satan's refusal to obey God that makes him evil. Since God is pure good then rebelling against God is the absence of good or what we call evil. Thus the reason God is the total opposite of Satan, the reason God is pure good and Satan is pure evil if you will, is that Satan rebells against everything God stands for. This is why Satan was willing to tempt Jesus, Satan must have known the power and known that he could never really succeed but he was rebelling against God. So to answer your question as simply as possible,

God = Good
Satan = rebelling against everything God stands for
Evil = the absence of good
so evil can also be the absence of God
Since Satan refuses to accept God Satan = evil

So Satan's evil is only the absence of God. This is much how hell was explained to me once as well. I was taught that hell was such a horrible place because you were removed from the presence of God. I have no doubt that when Satan was created that God knew what would happen but I'm sure God had a reason for allowing it to happen.

Now I don't claim to be any expert on this. The reason Satan is what he is happens to be something I have personally found very little about in the Bible. Maybe someone else who has studied this a little more might come up with a better explanation but this the way I understand it.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Is it Revelation 12 that talks of the war in Heaven, when Satan - originally known as Lucifer - rebelled against God

He, & the other fallen angels - (ie, demons) - were cast out of Heaven

Satan's origin as an angel, & how pride made Him rebel, are also in Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28

12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"



Ezekiel 28 (New International Version)



A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel [a] ?
Is no secret hidden from you?

4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.

6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,

7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.

8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.

9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a man, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.

10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.
I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "


Satan is called the destroyer - (the meaning of both Apollyon & Abaddon) - in Revelation 9

He even hates satanists, witches, mediums: he is out to destroy all human lives

But the Bible makes it clear that God loves every human: that's why Jesus came, as the Almighty Creator in human form, to pay the penalty for every sin

'God does not take pleasure in the death of anyone, but desires that all should repent & believe the gospel'

Hope that helps!

Ian

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry people. I'm afraid that I'm not getting your points. It still doesn't answer how we can have such ultimate polar opposites, God can't even be a fraction evil, and Satan can't even be a fraction good. It still reads to me like a man made mythology.

And I understand that you would throw scriptural text into this thread, but the problem I see with this topic comes from christian dogma, which includes biblical scriptures.

And, in your example, if the king knew this general was going to attempt a coup in the future, why would the king have even appointed him the position?

 

[Dave...]

I'm sorry if i'm reading too much into this thread, but Orion, isn't this question that you ask the same that would be used by moral relativism in that they claim that there can be no absolutes, under the mask of a God and Satan discussion?

Are you having a hard time believing that there is absolute good, and absolute evil? If so, I don't recall you ever stating why you don't believe in absolute good and evil other than the premise is fantastic, of which I agree, but why does fantastic equal untrue in your mind? Can you elaborate?

Peace

 

[Rob]

I'm sorry people. I'm afraid that I'm not getting your points. It still doesn't answer how we can have such ultimate polar opposites, God can't even be a fraction evil, and Satan can't even be a fraction good. It still reads to me like a man made mythology.

And I understand that you would throw scriptural text into this thread, but the problem I see with this topic comes from christian dogma, which includes biblical scriptures.

And, in your example, if the king knew this general was going to attempt a coup in the future, why would the king have even appointed him the position?

I don't know any other way to explain it

God = the definition of good. Good is just another way of describing things that please God.

Evil = lack of God, Satan turned away from God and refuses to accept him so this is what we call evil.

What is there to not understand?

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry if i'm reading too much into this thread, but Orion, isn't this question that you ask the same that would be used by moral relativism in that they claim that there can be no absolutes, under the mask of a God and Satan discussion?

Are you having a hard time believing that there is absolute good, and absolute evil? If so, I don't recall you ever stating why you don't believe in absolute good and evil other than the premise is fantastic, of which I agree, but why does fantastic equal untrue in your mind? Can you elaborate?

Peace

Some things ARE morally relevant. But that doesn't mean that I believe even that, absolutely. How's THAT for an answer!

Anyway, my "elaboration" would sound much the same as I've already stated. What is "myth"-ish about it is having a "perfectly good God with absolutely no evil within" . . . . AND having an "absolutely evil Satan with no chance of any good within".

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry people. I'm afraid that I'm not getting your points. It still doesn't answer how we can have such ultimate polar opposites, God can't even be a fraction evil, and Satan can't even be a fraction good. It still reads to me like a man made mythology.

And I understand that you would throw scriptural text into this thread, but the problem I see with this topic comes from christian dogma, which includes biblical scriptures.

And, in your example, if the king knew this general was going to attempt a coup in the future, why would the king have even appointed him the position?

I don't know any other way to explain it

God = the definition of good. Good is just another way of describing things that please God.

Evil = lack of God, Satan turned away from God and refuses to accept him so this is what we call evil.

What is there to not understand?

So, an athiest who chooses to feed the poor, cloth the naked, visit the imprisoned, etc is good after all.

If something that "lacks God" is "evil", . . . then my toothbrush is evil. :-?

 

[Rob]

So, an athiest who chooses to feed the poor, cloth the naked, visit the imprisoned, etc is good after all.

You pose a pretty good question there, let me ask one back. What would an athiest get from doing all those good deeds? A person who believes in almost any religion would be doing those deeds because they knew they would recieve a reward in the afterlife, but an athiest who doesn't believe in an afterlife can only recieve an earthly reward and is probably looking for some worldly return from their actions. A good example of such things is when Jesus speaks of fasting in Matthew 6:16. An athiest doing good deeds is seeking a reward here on earth and not a heavenly one. Although the action itself may not be evil, the motive behind it doesn't come from good it comes from greed which is evil.

If something that "lacks God" is "evil", . . . then my toothbrush is evil. :-?

It is hard for an inanimate object to believe in God. Your sarcasm is duly noted. May I ask, what exactly is your motive behind this post?

 

[Guest]

You pose a pretty good question there, let me ask one back. What would an athiest get from doing all those good deeds? A person who believes in almost any religion would be doing those deeds because they knew they would recieve a reward in the afterlife, but an athiest who doesn't believe in an afterlife can only recieve an earthly reward and is probably looking for some worldly return from their actions. A good example of such things is when Jesus speaks of fasting in Matthew 6:16. An athiest doing good deeds is seeking a reward here on earth and not a heavenly one. Although the action itself may not be evil, the motive behind it doesn't come from good it comes from greed which is evil.

Or, . . . . they are genuinely concerned with the well-being of others. Christianity doesn't hold the monopoly on selfless acts.

It is hard for an inanimate object to believe in God. Your sarcasm is duly noted. May I ask, what exactly is your motive behind this post?

Animals don't believe in God, yet I wouldn't consider them evil. Neither would I consider plant life as evil either. If the Buddhist monk has known nothing but his own religious belief, Christians would label him "evil". :-?

My purpose is to show some ways about the Christian religion that makes people question its validity. You know, when people say that you should not use "never" or "always", because such extremes are not found. Yet, for some reason, we have two examples, . . one being God, . . . the other being Satan.

 

[Rob]

Or, . . . . they are genuinely concerned with the well-being of others. Christianity doesn't hold the monopoly on selfless acts.

I never said Christianity holds a monopoly I just said that usually an athiest will have a reason for doing those deeds. Other religions other than Christianity promote doing good deeds as well and an athiest might just be moved by his conscience, which is a gift from God. Almost everyone knows the difference from right and wrong, where do you think laws and morals even come from?

Animals don't believe in God, yet I wouldn't consider them evil. Neither would I consider plant life as evil either. If the Buddhist monk has known nothing but his own religious belief, Christians would label him "evil". :-?

Inanimite objects don't have a soul or ability to worship God, therefore it is impossible for them to be considered evil. I won't assume whether or not a plant or animal has a soul but will ask you to prove that they don't worship God. As far as I'm concerned each animal and plant on the planet do what God intended them to do, which is more than can be said about mankind. I may not be able to prove that they do worship God but I'm not the one that made the statement that they don't so prove yourself.(see now I'm acting like some atheist's acts toward Christianity using bad logic to try to destroy your point, doesn't feel to good does it :D )

As far as that monk, he's not necesarily evil it still depends on how he lives his life. I'll post you a link, http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbs04.htm

In it you will find this,

God has created man upright and without sin. He has created man in his own image and likeness with sensibility, intellect, reason, conscience, and free will. Man has all the faculties and powers of moral agency. He knows right from wrong. The law of God is written in his heart. He is free and knows himself to be free and able to obey the law of God. His conscience approves his right conduct and condemns his wrong conduct.

All men, everywhere, have these same moral faculties and powers. A heathen man may be ignorant and primitive, but the law of God is written in his heart. His conscience approves his right conduct and condemns his wrong conduct. He has the same moral consciousness of a standard of right and wrong as any man who knows the Bible:

My purpose is to show some ways about the Christian religion that makes people question its validity. You know, when people say that you should not use "never" or "always", because such extremes are not found. Yet, for some reason, we have two examples, . . one being God, . . . the other being Satan.

Well I would say there are many examples in the world where always and never come into play, you just want to be closed minded. I could say I will never get pregnant and I defy you to prove me wrong(being that I am a man :P ) I could also say that you will never understand God unless you want to understand him and would also be correct :P The Christian religion doesn't make people qeustion it's validity, athiesm is the "religion" that questions it's own validity. This is why you see so many athiests coming to a Christian board trying to demonize Christianity to help them support their own beliefs(I'm not saying this is what you are trying to do). As a Christian I don't have to demonize anyone elses beliefs to keep mine. I know what the truth is and have an obligation to spread that truth but if the ones I tell it to don't believe then that is on them come judgment day and none of my business. I'm sure you have heard the saying, "there are no athiests in foxholes", why do you think that is? How many 80 year old athiests do you think there are around? Maybe there is a reason for that.

 

[lemonfresh]

You pose a pretty good question there, let me ask one back. What would an athiest get from doing all those good deeds? A person who believes in almost any religion would be doing those deeds because they knew they would recieve a reward in the afterlife, but an athiest who doesn't believe in an afterlife can only recieve an earthly reward and is probably looking for some worldly return from their actions. A good example of such things is when Jesus speaks of fasting in Matthew 6:16. An athiest doing good deeds is seeking a reward here on earth and not a heavenly one. Although the action itself may not be evil, the motive behind it doesn't come from good it comes from greed which is evil.

The atheist's motive comes from greed but so does the Christian's. That is the motivation to go to heaven. The atheist gets a temporary reward and the Christian gets an eternal one. Both groups are motivated by selfishness.

 

[Rob]

Doing to please God is greater than doing to please man. Pleasing man is done for praise from mankind, pleasing God is done in faith that God will make good on his word to reward you for your deed. Athiests do so for an immediate reward and don't do their work from faith. Christian's do their work because they are told to do so by God and told that they will be rewarded for doing what he says but they have to do so completly by faith, a word that athiests seem to be unable to understand :D

 

[lemonfresh]

I'm sure you have heard the saying, "there are no athiests in foxholes", why do you think that is? How many 80 year old athiests do you think there are around? Maybe there is a reason for that.

I hate that quote. It's an ad hominem and simply not true.

 

[Rob]

I'm sure you have heard the saying, "there are no athiests in foxholes", why do you think that is? How many 80 year old athiests do you think there are around? Maybe there is a reason for that.

I hate that quote. It's an ad hominem and simply not true.

Fine then, name three :wink:

 

[Guest]

I never said Christianity holds a monopoly I just said that usually an athiest will have a reason for doing those deeds. Other religions other than Christianity promote doing good deeds as well and an athiest might just be moved by his conscience, which is a gift from God. Almost everyone knows the difference from right and wrong, where do you think laws and morals even come from?

I agree with what lemonfresh has said. When Jesus says, "I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to dring. . . " to those he is going to let into his heaven, but not those people who didn't, that's a pretty strong motivating factor of "self preservation", . . . . or a selfish act. If they got NO reward either here or there, and they knew it, then we'd have more sincere people.

Now, I'm very sure that there ARE many sincere christian people. But there are also sincere people of other faiths or no particular faith.

Inanimite objects don't have a soul or ability to worship God, therefore it is impossible for them to be considered evil. I won't assume whether or not a plant or animal has a soul but will ask you to prove that they don't worship God. As far as I'm concerned each animal and plant on the planet do what God intended them to do, which is more than can be said about mankind. I may not be able to prove that they do worship God but I'm not the one that made the statement that they don't so prove yourself.(see now I'm acting like some atheist's acts toward Christianity using bad logic to try to destroy your point, doesn't feel to good does it :D )

You want me to prove to you that plants and animals DON'T worship God? :-? :roll:

Well I would say there are many examples in the world where always and never come into play, you just want to be closed minded. I could say I will never get pregnant and I defy you to prove me wrong(being that I am a man :P ) I could also say that you will never understand God unless you want to understand him and would also be correct :P

When I say, you can't use "never" or "always", I'm refering to things that actually make sense! There is seldom a time when "never" and "always" is the case. You (as a man) getting pregnant isn't a good example because you have no means to get pregnant, thus IS a case where "never" can be used. However, you can't say that you "never" will fully understand God. In the same way, are you telling me that Satan is completely incapable of a good deed? Will "never" do anything good? It makes for a great addition to a religion (having an ultimate adversary), but is an absolute that doesn't make much sense when you actually look at it, . . . AND if you believe that this completely evil being was created by God, who is omniscient, knowing all the trouble Satan would cause, and having the majority of God's human creation ultimately end up in Hell.

 

[Rob]

I agree with what lemonfresh has said. When Jesus says, "I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to dring. . . " to those he is going to let into his heaven, but not those people who didn't, that's a pretty strong motivating factor of "self preservation", . . . . or a selfish act. If they got NO reward either here or there, and they knew it, then we'd have more sincere people.

Working to please God is selfish? I would say that Christianity teaches the giving of ones self to God and allowing the works to come from faith so that one can be saved. There is nothing selfish about wanting to be with God or wanting to please God.

Now, I'm very sure that there ARE many sincere christian people. But there are also sincere people of other faiths or no particular faith.

You still have yet to answer my question, what reason would an athiest have for doing good deeds?

You want me to prove to you that plants and animals DON'T worship God? :-? :roll:

You are the one who made the claim that they didn't. I never made the claim that they did or didn't so I have nothing to prove. You shouldn't make claims if you can't back them up, especially since that seems to be the "gospel" of an athiest :P

When I say, you can't use "never" or "always", I'm refering to things that actually make sense! There is seldom a time when "never" and "always" is the case. You (as a man) getting pregnant isn't a good example because you have no means to get pregnant, thus IS a case where "never" can be used. However, you can't say that you "never" will fully understand God. In the same way, are you telling me that Satan is completely incapable of a good deed? Will "never" do anything good? It makes for a great addition to a religion (having an ultimate adversary), but is an absolute that doesn't make much sense when you actually look at it, . . . AND if you believe that this completely evil being was created by God, who is omniscient, knowing all the trouble Satan would cause, and having the majority of God's human creation ultimately end up in Hell.

That is not what you said originally :D You absolutely said this,
"You know, when people say that you should not use "never" or "always", because such extremes are not found" Now that you have been proven in error you change your mind?

You know there were once 2 preachers out fishing who decided to hold up a sign which said the end is near. Several people drove by without an incident until one guy yelled out as he passed by, "Stop trying to cram your religious beliefs down my throat". After that man passed by the two preachers heard a loud splash and the one looked at the other and said, "maybe we should have made the sign say bridge out ahead". What point does an athiest have in trying to disprove a religion or, as you put it, point out what about our religion makes people question it. What makes an athiest start their own "gospel" trying to dispell any religion? What makes an athiest come to a Christian board, not to learn but to criticize? You know there are athiests that I've seen on this board that are very confident in their beliefs and are only here to learn from us so that they can learn more about us. Then there are the athiests who come onto the board thinking they are going to promote their own form of "religion" or convert those who believe into changing their minds. These athiests act as if they are so well learned and ask questions they think are impossible to answer and then become defensive or change the question when the answer is given. The fact is that the second type of athiest is a fool, even other athiests have said so. You should know better than to come on a Christian forum thinking that you can convert anyone to athiesm or to change their mind based on what an athiest says.

I love the athiests who come here trying to demonize, criticize, or prove false Christianity, they give me a good laugh. If they were sure of their beliefs they wouldn't be here, at least not for that reason. I'm secure in my beliefs and I won't be going to any athiest forums to tell them they are evil. I can only tell the gospel and hope that God shows them the rest of the way but I can't force anyone to believe. If I were to go to an athiest forum it would be to defend my beliefs, not call them evil and that isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Seems to me that some of you athiests have your own doubts about what you believe and you are here trying to criticize our beliefs in order to help you justify yours. Maybe you know you are wrong and just too much of a fool to admit it?

 

[Guest]

Working to please God is selfish? I would say that Christianity teaches the giving of ones self to God and allowing the works to come from faith so that one can be saved. There is nothing selfish about wanting to be with God or wanting to please God.

Would they still do it if there were no "crown of righteousness", but all ended up in the same place at the end?

You still have yet to answer my question, what reason would an athiest have for doing good deeds?

The advanced trait of acknowledging basic human needs!! There's nothing spiritual about giving a person dignity! :-? Not everyone is out for their own self good. There ARE some who are. I wouldn't be surprised if some were Christians.

You are the one who made the claim that they didn't. I never made the claim that they did or didn't so I have nothing to prove. You shouldn't make claims if you can't back them up, especially since that seems to be the "gospel" of an athiest :P

It's a ridiculous notion. Plants and animals don't worship any deity. :roll:

That is not what you said originally :D You absolutely said this,
"You know, when people say that you should not use "never" or "always", because such extremes are not found" Now that you have been proven in error you change your mind?

I acknowledged your notion of a man not being able to give birth. But you failed to see what I was saying in the light of common sense. A man not being able to give birth is NOT the same as some spiritual being "never being able to do good". . and you know it. Don't go patting yourself on the back so quickly.

I love the athiests who come here trying to demonize, criticize, or prove false Christianity, they give me a good laugh. If they were sure of their beliefs they wouldn't be here, at least not for that reason. I'm secure in my beliefs and I won't be going to any athiest forums to tell them they are evil. I can only tell the gospel and hope that God shows them the rest of the way but I can't force anyone to believe. If I were to go to an athiest forum it would be to defend my beliefs, not call them evil and that isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Seems to me that some of you athiests have your own doubts about what you believe and you are here trying to criticize our beliefs in order to help you justify yours. Maybe you know you are wrong and just too much of a fool to admit it?

I never said I was an atheist, by the way. But, do you actually think that Christian beliefs aren't already known by those outside of Christianity? They know full well about the Christian belief that if they don't accept Jesus, then Christians believe that they're going to Hell. Just because of their own personal choice. It's a very harsh thing to say to someone . . . and they DO get onto non-christian forums and state just that.

If you think what I've said is "making fun of christianity", then you're living in a sheltered life.

BTW, what would be the point of debating something that I "know to be wrong"? That WOULD be foolish. But if you think that of me, then you are the fool, because you can't POSSIBLY believe that about me since you know nothing about me.