A completely GOOD God ~ A completely EVIL Satan?

[Rob]

Would they still do it if there were no "crown of righteousness", but all ended up in the same place at the end?

They do it to please God, so yes the ones who do it for the right reasons would still do it regardless of what happened to anyone else.

The advanced trait of acknowledging basic human needs!! There's nothing spiritual about giving a person dignity! :-? Not everyone is out for their own self good. There ARE some who are. I wouldn't be surprised if some were Christians.

You know some are Christian's, well proclaimed Christians anyhow. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they do things right all the time.

It's a ridiculous notion. Plants and animals don't worship any deity. :roll:

Almost as ridiculous as coming to a Christian board thinking you are going to teach a bunch of Christians the error of their ways? :roll:

I acknowledged your notion of a man not being able to give birth. But you failed to see what I was saying in the light of common sense. A man not being able to give birth is NOT the same as some spiritual being "never being able to do good". . and you know it. Don't go patting yourself on the back so quickly.

Obviously I don't know it. I happen to know for a fact that a man can never give birth. I also happen to know for a fact that God can never do anything evil. Whats the difference? The thing is you don't understand God and thus you can't see it's the same. God is the one who made the rules of what is good and what is bad, he decides on what is evil not some man made rules. If God does it then he deems it as good and that is part of the reason it is impossible for him to do wrong. BTW, I'm still patting :P

I never said I was an atheist, by the way. But, do you actually think that Christian beliefs aren't already known by those outside of Christianity? They know full well about the Christian belief that if they don't accept Jesus, then Christians believe that they're going to Hell. Just because of their own personal choice. It's a very harsh thing to say to someone . . . and they DO get onto non-christian forums and state just that.

You didn't have to say you were an atheist, your argument already pointed that out. As for the Christian belief being spread outside of Christianity, believe me when I say there are many people that don't know. My wife didn't even know the story of Jonah and the Whale before we got together, shoot she knew who Jesus was and that he died on a cross but that was about it. Look at society today and tell me that people know what they have offered to them. As for the Christians getting onto the non-Christian forums and preaching brimstone and fire, I have never agreed with that philosophy and probably never will. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. Some people do tend to use the curse of hell to preach to people, I prefer to tell people about the love of God and what Jesus did for us. Keep in mind that there are different beliefs among how certain things should be done in Christianity, the important part is that the basic principle stays the same.

If you think what I've said is "making fun of christianity", then you're living in a sheltered life.

Trust me when I tell you that I've lived a far from sheltered life.

BTW, what would be the point of debating something that I "know to be wrong"? That WOULD be foolish. But if you think that of me, then you are the fool, because you can't POSSIBLY believe that about me since you know nothing about me.

You obviously don't realize how much you can find out about someone just from their posts. I probably know more about you than you are willing to admit to. You do know I don't just make false accusations without researching them, just in case I get called out like you and that other athiest up there(I'm geussing he's still trying to find 3 :D ). If I say something I make sure I have a way to back it up with proof. I never made false accusations about you, I actually took the time to look up your previous posts before ever replying to this, that is part of the reason I don't ask your age :D You call yourself a Christian type person but don't accept the religion enough to be called a Christian. The typical "lukewarm" can't make up your own mind and have to depend on the logic of men rather than the logic of God type person. If you don't like me calling you an athiest then change the tune and presentation of your posts or else, how is my wife says it, If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck I'm going to call it a duck I guess I'll call it like it is :D

 

[Guest]

Almost as ridiculous as coming to a Christian board thinking you are going to teach a bunch of Christians the error of their ways? :roll:

They don't worship God. They are completely unaware of any deity.

Obviously I don't know it. I happen to know for a fact that a man can never give birth. I also happen to know for a fact that God can never do anything evil. Whats the difference? The thing is you don't understand God and thus you can't see it's the same. God is the one who made the rules of what is good and what is bad, he decides on what is evil not some man made rules. If God does it then he deems it as good and that is part of the reason it is impossible for him to do wrong. BTW, I'm still patting :P

Then keep patting, but realize that you are the only one doing so. All I'm saying is that complete polar opposites of this kind makes it sound fantastic. What I'm saying is LESS about God being good, but more about there being an entity that can DO no good at all.

You didn't have to say you were an atheist, your argument already pointed that out. As for the Christian belief being spread outside of Christianity, believe me when I say there are many people that don't know. My wife didn't even know the story of Jonah and the Whale before we got together, shoot she knew who Jesus was and that he died on a cross but that was about it. Look at society today and tell me that people know what they have offered to them. As for the Christians getting onto the non-Christian forums and preaching brimstone and fire, I have never agreed with that philosophy and probably never will. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. Some people do tend to use the curse of hell to preach to people, I prefer to tell people about the love of God and what Jesus did for us. Keep in mind that there are different beliefs among how certain things should be done in Christianity, the important part is that the basic principle stays the same.

You obviously don't realize how much you can find out about someone just from their posts. I probably know more about you than you are willing to admit to. You do know I don't just make false accusations without researching them, just in case I get called out like you and that other athiest up there(I'm geussing he's still trying to find 3 :D ). If I say something I make sure I have a way to back it up with proof. I never made false accusations about you, I actually took the time to look up your previous posts before ever replying to this, that is part of the reason I don't ask your age :D You call yourself a Christian type person but don't accept the religion enough to be called a Christian. The typical "lukewarm" can't make up your own mind and have to depend on the logic of men rather than the logic of God type person. If you don't like me calling you an athiest then change the tune and presentation of your posts or else, how is my wife says it, If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck I'm going to call it a duck I guess I'll call it like it is :D

So, because I don't agree with the basic dogma of Christianity, I'm automatically an atheist? :-? I have questions and concerns because I'm a person who tends to analyze WHY things are, and when things don't make sense, I bring up questions for those who MAY be able to answer them. Boards such as these. It isn't my fault if the answers given still don't really answer what I'm seeking.

Here's the thing. Why do you suppose that the aspects of Christianity are SO open to people finding holes and discovering things that cause questions? If what we see around us, in our universe, doesn't add up to what dogma teaches, then there is a problem. Therefore, I come to such boards as this to perhaps discover some insightful thoughts that I had not thought of before. Unfortunately, I rarely find such insight, but only the typical "stating of doctrine" that, quite frankly, I'm well aware of.

As far as being "lukewarm", I am not. I no not pretend to have "a form of Godliness". I don't actively go out to "do sinful acts", but I don't go to church, raise my hands, or act the part of a Christian. I'm not sure WHAT I am at this point in my life. I hope I find out soon, though.

 

[Rob]

They don't worship God. They are completely unaware of any deity.

Again, I ask for proof. You make a statement that is only opinion and frankly I have enough opinions I don't need anymore. If you want to argue whether or not animals have the ability to worship God I will gladly do so but you have to have a better logical argument than "the thought is absurd"

Then keep patting, but realize that you are the only one doing so. All I'm saying is that complete polar opposites of this kind makes it sound fantastic. What I'm saying is LESS about God being good, but more about there being an entity that can DO no good at all.

It is strange that nobody else has posted in this thread in quite some time :-? Now see I took your question as being about total polar opposites, not about the ability of one being to be completely evil, there is a difference you know. If you were to go back and read the preceding posts you would probably agree that the conclusion most would come to is this thread is about two beings which are total opposites. I will answer your question at the end of the post, I hope you read it with an open mind.

So, because I don't agree with the basic dogma of Christianity, I'm automatically an atheist? :-? I have questions and concerns because I'm a person who tends to analyze WHY things are, and when things don't make sense, I bring up questions for those who MAY be able to answer them. Boards such as these. It isn't my fault if the answers given still don't really answer what I'm seeking.

I do owe you an apology, an athiest is defined as someone who denies the existance of God not someone who questions it so I was wrong when I said that, maybe I should have said agnostic. As far as your questions, maybe you are looking for the wrong answers. If you seek the truth you will find it but if you are seeking something else who knows what you will find. Honestly, when you ask this question do you not already have your mind set on an answer you think is right? Have you ever tried taking the answers with an open mind or maybe making the questions more clear? Think about rephrasing your original question to, how is it that Satan is not capable of performing any good deeds and your answers will differ ever so slightly.

Here's the thing. Why do you suppose that the aspects of Christianity are SO open to people finding holes and discovering things that cause questions? If what we see around us, in our universe, doesn't add up to what dogma teaches, then there is a problem. Therefore, I come to such boards as this to perhaps discover some insightful thoughts that I had not thought of before. Unfortunately, I rarely find such insight, but only the typical "stating of doctrine" that, quite frankly, I'm well aware of.

The Bible actually predicts the different dogma's and while I do believe that some things are more important than others I know I have to learn the Bible myself to know the differnce in what God says and what man says and to know the truth. There are so many different doctrines because there are a lot of people that are too lazy to read there Bibles and make the decision for themselves(at least that is how I see it and I'm sticking to it :P) I'm more interested in the word of God than the word of man and have been making a spiritual journey myself to be sure that I'm following God's way and not mans. I know of a website that you might enjoy, especially after seeing your signature so many times the past few days :D. I realize that some people allow doctrine to intefere with logical thinking. You seem to be the type of person who only appreciates your answers in clear logical answers. In the future when I'm responding to your questions I'll make sure I put my answers in a form you will appreciate them. http://www.ex-atheist.com/index.html I highly reccomend you read some of the stuff on that site, it is presented by an ex-atheist in a very logical sense that I'm sure you would have a hard time disagreeing with.

As far as being "lukewarm", I am not. I no not pretend to have "a form of Godliness". I don't actively go out to "do sinful acts", but I don't go to church, raise my hands, or act the part of a Christian. I'm not sure WHAT I am at this point in my life. I hope I find out soon, though.

All I can say to the above is I will pray that God guides you.

As far as the answer I promised you earlier in this post,

The primary answer to your question lies in the definition of good and the defintion of evil. A worldly definition of good might be doing something of moral significance, in which case Satan may very capable of doing so by the standards of man. A Christian definition of good is that which is pleasing to God. A wordly definition of evil might be something that goes against mans morals but again a Christian definition is different in it would believe evil to be that which doesn't please God.

By mans definition of good and evil, Satan may very well be capable of doing good just as God might be capable of doing evil, but that is man's interpretation. By a Christian definition God is incapable of evil because he is incapable of displeasing himself. Also by a Christian defintion, Satan is incapable of doing good because he has been removed from the presence of God for his rebellious ways and is incapable of pleasing him. If Satan is unable to be in the presence of God how could he please God, he can't which is why he can't be good by the definition a Christian would have of evil. Satan is perfectly capabele of doing good by the definition man gives to good, but then again some men think killing unborn babies is good too. Satan is not capable, nor shall he ever again be capable of pleasing God, thus making him incapable of doing anything but evil in the defintion of Christianity.

^^ Does that make more sense to you?

 

[Guest]

Yes, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Ruben]

Orion,

I applaud your questions. I too am most interested in finding TRUTH over confirmation of long held and often blindly accepted dogma. I believe that Christianity does humanity an enormous injustice by demanding that humanity shut down and stop asking, because it displeases God.

I should think a true follower of Christ would be willing to render a life time of servitude just for the sake of having been a part of Him for a time, in that alone lies a sufficient reward.

There is a strong undertow of justified hatred toward non Christians or those that dare to rock the boat. I know the word 'hate' might seem a bit unwarranted but consider the sarcasm and judgmental condemnation and an often assured occupancy in hell fire by some of those that post.

Anyway, again I find your honest question and need for logic very refreshing. Ruben

 

[Guest]

Orion,

I applaud your questions. I too am most interested in finding TRUTH over confirmation of long held and often blindly accepted dogma. I believe that Christianity does humanity an enormous injustice by demanding that humanity shut down and stop asking, because it displeases God.

I should think a true follower of Christ would be willing to render a life time of servitude just for the sake of having been a part of Him for a time, in that alone lies a sufficient reward.

There is a strong undertow of justified hatred toward non Christians or those that dare to rock the boat. I know the word 'hate' might seem a bit unwarranted but consider the sarcasm and judgmental condemnation and an often assured occupancy in hell fire by some of those that post.

Anyway, again I find your honest question and need for logic very refreshing. Ruben

Although I am saying this several days late (just now noticed it), THANKS for the comment, Ruben!! :D