A few questions.

[Lelouch]

On another board that i post on, there is a thread where we debate about God. Me participating in that thread, made me want to post here for some questions.. Such as the bible, being one of the most biggest contradictions that i think i will ever come across.

I don't understand how God is merciful, he committed an act of barbarism that can only be described as genocide. Such as murdering all first born males, back in the Moses era. If someone nowadays, murdered all first born males, just because a certain people were enslaved. Every one of you will damn that person.

If God is merciful, than why does the "Unforgivable Sin" exist? doesn't that contradict the unconditional love that he has for everyone?

The bible also says that Jesus is the only way to heaven, if that is so.. What about good, honest people that don't believe in Jesus? are they hell-bound? how unfair is that?

Your God seems extremely hateful, and has no problem murdering the innocent. Correct me if i am wrong, am i missing something?

 

[epistemaniac]

again, a contradiction is a very specific thing... eg saying that A is not A and non-A at the same time and in the same relationship..... saying that God is both merciful and holy, and that at the same He expresses wrath against the creatures of His own creation, is not a contradiction. It may be difficult to explain to persons already predisposed to not believe that a loving God can possess both attributes (love and wrath), but this, again, does not make it a contradiction. God is not man. While this ought to be self evident, if someone wants to compare the two in such a way as to say that if a person did something we would condemn it as being unethical, and that if God did it that we ought to somehow automatically condemn that action too, is to look at the situation from an anthropological perspective instead of through a theo-centric worldview. If God is omniscient, perfectly wise, and omnibenevolent, perfectly good, and if this is His creation, given that He is the creator and nothing exists except it being due to His good pleasure, then what God does to persons and a creation rebelling against Him is perfectly within His right to do so. Now the creatures involved may not like it, indeed, they wouldn't, that is part of their rebellion against Him, but that is part of what it means to live under the rule of a sovereign perfectly holy and righteous God. One accepts God's actions as being consistent with His rights and nature. Thats not so difficult.

blessings,
ken

 

[Kelli]

You are missing something, it is very obvious that you like so many others haven't read what you are blasting.

God didn't order the killing of every first born male Pharaoh did! He could have easily done what God had asked but he refused. Death is a part of life, and our days are numbered.

I understand, that you may be mad at God because of what you have heard, but since it's such an important thing (eternity) maybe you should read it and not just listen to what others say about it???

God loves you so much that He was tortured for you, and you can either be like Pharaoh, and harden your heart to Him, or you can accept His love.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Love, Kelli

 

[epistemaniac]

On another board that i post on, there is a thread where we debate about God. Me participating in that thread, made me want to post here for some questions.. Such as the bible, being one of the most biggest contradictions that i think i will ever come across.

I don't understand how God is merciful, he committed an act of barbarism that can only be described as genocide. Such as murdering all first born males, back in the Moses era. If someone nowadays, murdered all first born males, just because a certain people were enslaved. Every one of you will damn that person.

If God is merciful, than why does the "Unforgivable Sin" exist? doesn't that contradict the unconditional love that he has for everyone?

The bible also says that Jesus is the only way to heaven, if that is so.. What about good, honest people that don't believe in Jesus? are they hell-bound? how unfair is that?

Your God seems extremely hateful, and has no problem murdering the innocent. Correct me if i am wrong, am i missing something?

by the way, outside of Christ, no one is considered ""good" or "honest" people... if you look again this again from any perspective you know very well that every single person has lied, every one has violated the moral law: Rom 3:10-18 esv as it is written: (11) no one understands; no one seeks for God. (12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one. (13) Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.The venom of asps is under their lips. (14) Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness. (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood; (16) in their paths are ruin and misery, (17) and the way of peace they have not known., (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes."

In fact, a person trying to prove that they don't need God in order to be good is itself blasphemous and sinful. Ted Turner may give a billion dollars to the UN and some natural good may come of it but that deed is not itself merit approbation from God because it is being done with evil motivation, and is therefore evil. Since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, every one without exception deserves justice, not mercy and grace. For mercy and grace are, by definition, not something we can merit.... and the consequences for bearing the weight of this punishment is catastrophic. However, God has made a way to have weight of this punishment borne by His Son on the Cross. Either way, the punishment for violating God's justice must be met, one can either try and stand before a perfectly just and holy God on the basis of one's own merits, or one can stand before Him on the basis of the merits of the Son. The former will result in certain eternal death, the latter in eternal life. if a persons decides to reject God's provision for their eternal salvation then they can hardly reasonably object for receiving what he promised would be the consequences of such a decision. Well I suppose they can and will likely object to it, but that is just part and parcel of a lived lived out in rebellion to God. One will probably be rebelling at the day of judgment as they did throughout their life, and it will be too late to do anything about it on that great a dreadful day. But, for you, the day of salvation is here, you now know the way to eternal life. if you reject Christ, then you will have to accept the consequences for doing so. Jesus said John 3:17-20 esv For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (19) And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. (20) For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."

I pray that God gives you the ability by opening your blinded eyes and softening your heart by taking out your heart of stone and giving you a heart of flesh so that you can come to Him now for salvation.....

blessings,
ken

 

[follower of Christ]

I don't understand how God is merciful, he committed an act of barbarism that can only be described as genocide. Such as murdering all first born males, back in the Moses era. If someone nowadays, murdered all first born males, just because a certain people were enslaved. Every one of you will damn that person.

I think the OP is referring to Exodus here...

Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever. And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service? That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped. And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
(Exodus 12:21-30 KJV)

Its in there. Goddidit. We cant deny it.
And He is sovereign in the matter.

 

[LaCrum]

If God is merciful, than why does the "Unforgivable Sin" exist? doesn't that contradict the unconditional love that he has for everyone?

The Unforgivable Sin is refusing to enter into the New Covenant with God through Jesus, so technically it's your choice.

 

[DarcyLu]

If God is merciful, than why does the "Unforgivable Sin" exist? doesn't that contradict the unconditional love that he has for everyone?

The Unforgivable Sin is refusing to enter into the New Covenant with God through Jesus, so technically it's your choice.

Isn't the unforgivable sin denying the Holy Spirit and/or denying the acts of the Holy Spirit?
edit to add:
Mark 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: 30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

 

[jasoncran]

correct.

 

[DarcyLu]

If God is merciful, than why does the "Unforgivable Sin" exist? doesn't that contradict the unconditional love that he has for everyone? ?

The unforgivable sin is to deny the Holy Spirit and the works of the Holy Spirit. I do not want to get into a heated debate w/ others here, but "unconditional love" is not found in the Bible. God said He hated Esau.

The bible also says that Jesus is the only way to heaven, if that is so.. What about good, honest people that don't believe in Jesus? are they hell-bound? how unfair is that??

Not to be harsh, but that is true and in order to understand this you will need to read your Bible. The entire Bible points to Jesus. It is not unfair, sin came into the world through Adam and it went out with Christ. You owe your entire life to Him, know it or not.

Your God seems extremely hateful, and has no problem murdering the innocent. Correct me if i am wrong, am i missing something?

Well, if you haven't read the Bible, then yes, you are missing out on quit a bit.

If we sincerely pray and ask in faith for Him to show us and to understand these things He will help us understand these questions. God wants us to seek Him and He has promised that if we do seek Him, in faith, we will find Him. When we realize Jesus really did die for your sins and was resurrected, God also tells us we have the mind of Christ and it is no longer us who lives, but He in us we understand even more.

My suggestion would be for you to read the Bible so you know what you are arguing about.

 

[LaCrum]

Isn't the unforgivable sin denying the Holy Spirit and/or denying the acts of the Holy Spirit?

Denying the Holy Spirit is refusing to enter into Covenant with God, since the Holy Spirit is God's mark on us that we are in Covenant with Him. If we don't have the Holy Spirit within us, we have refused God's Covenant.

 

[DarcyLu]

Denying the Holy Spirit is refusing to enter into Covenant with God, since the Holy Spirit is God's mark on us that we are in Covenant with Him. If we don't have the Holy Spirit within us, we have refused God's Covenant.

BLASPHEMY – The use of slander to make one’s thoughts publicly known in an attempt to ruin the good name and reputation of someone else in order to hinder them. From the Greek word blasphemeo.

Mark 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: 30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

They were denying the work of the Holy Spirit and claiming it was an unclean Spirit, so they were denying the works and the power of the Spirit and that is the unforgivable sin. Even today when God heals, does miracles and we deny that it is the work of the Holy Spirit it is blasphemy.

 

[LaCrum]

BLASPHEMY – The use of slander to make one’s thoughts publicly known in an attempt to ruin the good name and reputation of someone else in order to hinder them. From the Greek word blasphemeo.

Mark 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: 30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

They were denying the work of the Holy Spirit and claiming it was an unclean Spirit, so they were denying the works and the power of the Spirit and that is the unforgivable sin. Even today when God heals, does miracles and we deny that it is the work of the Holy Spirit it is blasphemy.

Denying the Holy Spirit is refusing to enter into Covenant with God, since the Holy Spirit is God's mark on us that we are in Covenant with Him. If we don't have the Holy Spirit within us, we have refused God's Covenant.

BLASPHEMY – The use of slander to make one’s thoughts publicly known in an attempt to ruin the good name and reputation of someone else in order to hinder them. From the Greek word blasphemeo.

Mark 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: 30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

They were denying the work of the Holy Spirit and claiming it was an unclean Spirit, so they were denying the works and the power of the Spirit and that is the unforgivable sin. Even today when God heals, does miracles and we deny that it is the work of the Holy Spirit it is blasphemy.

You aren't looking at the entire context of what that means. Otherwise a doctor might accidently blasphamy against the Holy Spirit by claiming a medical miracle can be explained away by science. It's ludacris. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is rejecting Jesus, which is refusing to enter into Covenant with God.

Dr. Henry Morris puts it best: "The unforgivable sin of speaking against the Holy Spirit has been interpreted in various ways, but the true meaning cannot contradict other Scripture. It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36). Thus, speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible. 'My spirit shall not always strive with man,' God said long ago (Genesis 6:3)."

 

[DarcyLu]

You aren't looking at the entire context of what that means. Otherwise a doctor might accidently blasphamy against the Holy Spirit by claiming a medical miracle can be explained away by science. It's ludacris. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is rejecting Jesus, which is refusing to enter into Covenant with God.

Dr. Henry Morris puts it best: "The unforgivable sin of speaking against the Holy Spirit has been interpreted in various ways, but the true meaning cannot contradict other Scripture. It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36). Thus, speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible. 'My spirit shall not always strive with man,' God said long ago (Genesis 6:3)."

The entire context is that Jesus spoke of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit 3 times:
Matthew 12:22-45
Luke 11:14-36; 12:10
Mark 3:20-29

Each time, Jesus had just performed a miracle and the Pharisees denied the power coming from God, but instead they claimed Jesus' ability came from Satan. The Pharisees hindered and spoke out against the Kingdom of God, that is blasphemy. They were denying the work of the Holy Spirit in all 3 cases. In a sense, they were rejecting Christ, in that they were rejecting who He received His power from.
Yes, we should be careful to not deny what is the work of the Holy Spirit. It is very clear in those 3 passages I gave you above.

 

[fullgospel]

The plauges that came upon egypt were against the gods of egypt, I think it is important to realize that. I am quite sure that if an egyptian would have worshiped Jehovah God they to would have been saved by the blood of the lamb.

 

[jasoncran]

some egyptians did believe and left with the hebrews.

 

[elijah23]

Different Christians believe different things. Sometimes they are categorized as liberal, moderate, and conservative. You would get different answers to your questions depending on which group you were talking to, perhaps.

As for the Lord allowing people to die, death is not as bad as it sounds—we all live forever, I believe, so we don’t really die.

As for the “unforgivable sin,†I think here is where different types of Christians might give you different answers. This is a question I find confusing. I might say it is possible that it simply means that you will be punished for committing that sin. In my mind, that doesn’t necessarily mean eternal damnation. When I was a boy and misbehaved, my parents would send me to my room for a period of time, but they didn’t send me there forever. Anyhow, I would encourage you not to commit that sin, just to be on the safe side.

As for the question about Jesus being the only way to heaven, I am not sure which Scripture you are referring to. Certainly Jesus is ONE way to heaven. More liberal theologians might argue he is not the ONLY way. Remember that John 3:16 tells us that we will not perish but have eternal life if we believe in Jesus, so I try to always keep that Scripture in mind. But what of the Jews who believe in the same God as Christian but don’t believe in Jesus? My suspicion is that they are okay, as long as they believe in the same God as Christians do, but I know there are those who don’t agree.