KeyboardPlayer
Member
Is it possible that a confessed, but recurring, sin can harden a Christian's heart to the point they can no longer hear God?
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
A Hardened Heart
- Thread starter KeyboardPlayer
- Start date
I’d say Yes, whether or not that deafness is permanent in mortal life, or temporary. Here’s an extract is from Revisiting The Pilgrim’s Progress (Steve H Hakes, 2011:36).
[Interpreter then took him into a very dark room, where there sat a sad old man in an iron-wrought cage, sighing deeply. “Talk to him”, said Interpreter. And Christian did so.
“I now am what I once was not,” responded the old man, “for once, having professed the faith, I was keen to grow. Yet shallow in submission, was I, and soon gave up, once the going got tough. Now I wither alone, unable to free myself from my cage. Having left the ship of salvation, the captain will not permit me to re-embark. I confess my own failings. I looked for an easy and enjoyable life, without conflict or clamour; hearing and heeding the Book seemed unimportant. Alas, I grieved the heavenly dove, and he has flown from me; I invited the crow of hell, and he has come to roost. The Book sternly says, that none who crucify the crucified one, shall be spared: I have spurned the king’s son; insulted the king’s agent; the king’s anger encages me in iron.”
Aside, Christian asked whether the old man had any hope of grace. “Alas,” said Interpreter, “he has no hope of grace. Natheless, grace has hope for him. So there is hope that he will turn and be restored as a pilgrim. But he can hold no hope, while he believes in no hope. As to the cage, why, it was wrought by the futility of his own mind, not by the king’s anger—for this man in his anger misjudges his judge.
“To be sure his first faith—and some would deny him that—proved faithless. But as to the Book, it proclaims captivity to such as he, only for as long as they choose to continue in their folly, insulting the prince in public. Yet affronted grace is not fickle, and stands ever ready to raise the fallen, if they truly repent. However, grace raises this warning, that they, who violate the covenant with their lord who needs them not, do but exile and doom themselves. In folly and despair, it is this man who denies himself repentance, yet blames the denial on the king.”
[Interpreter then took him into a very dark room, where there sat a sad old man in an iron-wrought cage, sighing deeply. “Talk to him”, said Interpreter. And Christian did so.
“I now am what I once was not,” responded the old man, “for once, having professed the faith, I was keen to grow. Yet shallow in submission, was I, and soon gave up, once the going got tough. Now I wither alone, unable to free myself from my cage. Having left the ship of salvation, the captain will not permit me to re-embark. I confess my own failings. I looked for an easy and enjoyable life, without conflict or clamour; hearing and heeding the Book seemed unimportant. Alas, I grieved the heavenly dove, and he has flown from me; I invited the crow of hell, and he has come to roost. The Book sternly says, that none who crucify the crucified one, shall be spared: I have spurned the king’s son; insulted the king’s agent; the king’s anger encages me in iron.”
Aside, Christian asked whether the old man had any hope of grace. “Alas,” said Interpreter, “he has no hope of grace. Natheless, grace has hope for him. So there is hope that he will turn and be restored as a pilgrim. But he can hold no hope, while he believes in no hope. As to the cage, why, it was wrought by the futility of his own mind, not by the king’s anger—for this man in his anger misjudges his judge.
“To be sure his first faith—and some would deny him that—proved faithless. But as to the Book, it proclaims captivity to such as he, only for as long as they choose to continue in their folly, insulting the prince in public. Yet affronted grace is not fickle, and stands ever ready to raise the fallen, if they truly repent. However, grace raises this warning, that they, who violate the covenant with their lord who needs them not, do but exile and doom themselves. In folly and despair, it is this man who denies himself repentance, yet blames the denial on the king.”
We have all fallen short of the glory of the Lord and by God's grace when we humble ourselves before Him and repent of our sin God will not only forgive us, but also never remembers that sin again. God knows his own will mess up at times, but if we sin willingly after knowing the truth then there is no more sacrifice for that sin and God can harden the hearts of those who walk away from Him, even after knowing His truths, Hebrews 10:19-39; Matthew 13:14-15
Hey All,
From the deep, probably smelly stomach in the belly of the great fish, somewhere in the Mediterranean,
Jonah 2:7-8 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
The wisdom only one man has ever been able to achieve. I know I am hard headed. But at least it's not come to this.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
From the deep, probably smelly stomach in the belly of the great fish, somewhere in the Mediterranean,
Jonah 2:7-8 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
The wisdom only one man has ever been able to achieve. I know I am hard headed. But at least it's not come to this.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
Yes, because the underlying thinking producing the sin is not being exposed, repented of and replaced with God's truth, which is lived in, by faith, everyday. The longer the underlying false beliefs producing the sin remain, they more they harden the sinner. Sin is always just a symptom of a deeper, underlying problem.
Christ_empowered
Member
I’d say yes…
Hardening can happen in the absence of true and genuine repentance and deliberate conscious surrender to God. I think…looking back…it can be a problem even for dedicated church members. Is it the individuals problem…and their responsibility to address it? Poor disciple ing at many churches? Simply the way the world
works…wheat and tares…?
I dunno
Jesus says we are to abide in Him and then in Him we will bear much fruit. Outside of Him we are nothing…we’ll be cut off and set aside for destruction. Jesus Christ also says many people will claim to be His and He will tell them depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I never knew you…
So maybe those who harden weren’t in Christ to begin with? Rambling…
Hardening can happen in the absence of true and genuine repentance and deliberate conscious surrender to God. I think…looking back…it can be a problem even for dedicated church members. Is it the individuals problem…and their responsibility to address it? Poor disciple ing at many churches? Simply the way the world
works…wheat and tares…?I dunno
Jesus says we are to abide in Him and then in Him we will bear much fruit. Outside of Him we are nothing…we’ll be cut off and set aside for destruction. Jesus Christ also says many people will claim to be His and He will tell them depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I never knew you…So maybe those who harden weren’t in Christ to begin with? Rambling…
Recurring sin means God doesn't hear you.
It is written..."For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)
If you want God to hear you, and to hear from God, quit sinning !
Paul writes..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
He also wrote..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
KeyboardPlayer
Member
It sounds like what I'm hearing is that a Christian has the ability to stop sinning. What do we do with I John 1:6-10?
(6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I do not consider myself to be walking in darkness. I have not turned my back on God, and my sin does bother me. I have prayed since 1976 to be delivered from this sin, but He is silent on this one topic.
(6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I do not consider myself to be walking in darkness. I have not turned my back on God, and my sin does bother me. I have prayed since 1976 to be delivered from this sin, but He is silent on this one topic.
That is right, thanks be to God !
Verses 5, 7, and 9 address those walking in the light...which is God, in Whom is no darkness-sin.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 address those walking in darkness...which is sin.
Those walking in sin cannot say they have no sin...or that they have fellowship with God.
Then you must be walking in the light, who is God.
If you are walking in God, how can you inject sin into Him?
By saying you are in God, but still sinning, you infer that there is darkness in God.
That just can't be, as 1 John 1:5 says there is no darkness in God.
If you want to "give something up", give it up !
Walk in the Spirit, and not in the "flesh".
Welcome to the site.
KeyboardPlayer
Member
Regarding verse 9 ... are you saying that we can only be forgiven of sins once, rather than it being an ongoing process?
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Yes, I'm afraid -
When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.
“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.
“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.
If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;
But if you refuse and rebel,
You shall be devoured by the sword”;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
(Isaiah 1:15-20.)
To sum it up, no more empty words, God will not hear it; clean up your acts, and turn to Jesus. Recurring sin builds a stronghold that separates you from God, I myself have been struggling in this for more than a decade.
Absolutely. See Romans 6, Romans 8:9-14, Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13.
That a Christian doesn't ever have to sin doesn't mean they won't. And so, we have the passage you've cited (and many others in the New Testament).
What is it to "walk in darkness," do you think?
You stand before God each day in one of two conditions: As a humble, loving servant or as a rebel. There is no middle ground between these two states. If you are a rebel (which you can be even though you're a child of God - Luke 15:11-32; 1 Corinthians 3:1-3; Isaiah 64:6-9), God will not fill you with Himself, with His Holy Spirit, and without that filling you can't ever be the person God intends you should be.
It is good that your sin bothers you. But this is not the state-of-affairs God is shooting for in your life. He doesn't want you bothered by sin; He wants you free of it that you might enjoy Him fully every day. (1 John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 13:14; Philippians 3:7-10)
No, He's not. God's "way of escape" (1 Corinthians 10:13) from any and all sin is laid out very clearly in His word. See Romans 6.
Hey All,
"I have prayed since 1976 to be delivered from this sin, but He is silent on this one topic." Quote from Keyboard Player
I hear you brother. But we need to be honest with ourselves. I have suffered in the same way. Just this one issue. I am fine with pretty much everything else. I have learned to hide it. You would never know I have an issue by looking at me. But it has been a 50+ year fight. I finally have it contained for now.
I wanted to touch base with our prayers. God is not silent. You have not prayed correctly, according to His will. (Neither was I.) I knew I was in sin. I knew it wasn't OK. I just could not stop. You know you're in sin as well. It is a constant struggle.
I have taken a new attitude towards the sin and it is working so far. I have resolved myself to not sin today. If the urge is still as strong tomorrow, I may sin tomorrow. But not today. Trust me this way is still rough. I have failed a couple of times this year. For the most part though, it is working.
I still struggle at least two or three days a month. The struggle used to be almost daily.
"I do not consider myself to be walking in darkness."
"I have not turned my back on God, and my sin does bother me." Quotes from Keyboard Player
Do you realize how scary those two statements are? Sin is the very definition of "walking in darkness."
Your sin bothers you but not enough to fight against it?
Paul left us an out. Fighting the good fight of faith is an ongoing struggle. 2Tim 4:7 And struggling is not sinning. It just gets hard after awhile because you feel like you are doing all the work. Plus, Satan is relentless. You look around. Where are my guardian angels? You know they are in the fight and I thank God for them. I kid around about it. But if there's a way after all the celebrations are winding down, I am going to find those guys an buy them a beer. They sure drew the short straws to have to guard me. Keep on struggling Keyboard Player.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
"I have prayed since 1976 to be delivered from this sin, but He is silent on this one topic." Quote from Keyboard Player
I hear you brother. But we need to be honest with ourselves. I have suffered in the same way. Just this one issue. I am fine with pretty much everything else. I have learned to hide it. You would never know I have an issue by looking at me. But it has been a 50+ year fight. I finally have it contained for now.
I wanted to touch base with our prayers. God is not silent. You have not prayed correctly, according to His will. (Neither was I.) I knew I was in sin. I knew it wasn't OK. I just could not stop. You know you're in sin as well. It is a constant struggle.
I have taken a new attitude towards the sin and it is working so far. I have resolved myself to not sin today. If the urge is still as strong tomorrow, I may sin tomorrow. But not today. Trust me this way is still rough. I have failed a couple of times this year. For the most part though, it is working.
I still struggle at least two or three days a month. The struggle used to be almost daily.
"I do not consider myself to be walking in darkness."
"I have not turned my back on God, and my sin does bother me." Quotes from Keyboard Player
Do you realize how scary those two statements are? Sin is the very definition of "walking in darkness."
Your sin bothers you but not enough to fight against it?
Paul left us an out. Fighting the good fight of faith is an ongoing struggle. 2Tim 4:7 And struggling is not sinning. It just gets hard after awhile because you feel like you are doing all the work. Plus, Satan is relentless. You look around. Where are my guardian angels? You know they are in the fight and I thank God for them. I kid around about it. But if there's a way after all the celebrations are winding down, I am going to find those guys an buy them a beer. They sure drew the short straws to have to guard me. Keep on struggling Keyboard Player.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
KeyboardPlayer
Member
When I say that I am not walking in darkness, it means that I have not given myself over completely to sin and live life in defiance of God. I do not practice sin as a lifestyle. As you say, it is a daily battle with one particular sin. I have to believe that I John states we can be forgiven of sin and cleansed of unrighteousness. However, the impression I'm getting from this thread is that it is a one time only forgiveness at the time of salvation, and any sin after that is willful defiance that cannot be forgiven. Surely God does not require instant perfection after salvation? Even the apostle Paul talked about being frustrated by sin.
No man can achieve a godly end by fleshly means.
We cannot make ourselves holy. Doing so is God's job.
So long as a man strives and strains to be for God what God intends He should be for the man, that man will never be who God wants him to be. Like begets like: A cat begets a cat, a dog begets a dog, and you can only ever beget more of you. But God doesn't want more of you; He wants Himself, the life of Christ, to replace you. And He has given each of His children the Holy Spirit by whom they may be transformed into the image of Jesus (Romans 8:29; Philippians 2:13; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Only those who, in loving humility and faith, submit throughout each day to God find themselves changed by God, by the Spirit, into people who are truly like Christ. This transformation requires that we die and enter into new life in Jesus Christ. The man who struggles to change himself in doing so shows that he knows nothing of the crucified life that is necessary to being changed by God. Again, see Romans 6; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 5:24; Galatians 6:14; Colossians 3:1-4, and so on.
We cannot make ourselves holy. Doing so is God's job.
So long as a man strives and strains to be for God what God intends He should be for the man, that man will never be who God wants him to be. Like begets like: A cat begets a cat, a dog begets a dog, and you can only ever beget more of you. But God doesn't want more of you; He wants Himself, the life of Christ, to replace you. And He has given each of His children the Holy Spirit by whom they may be transformed into the image of Jesus (Romans 8:29; Philippians 2:13; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Only those who, in loving humility and faith, submit throughout each day to God find themselves changed by God, by the Spirit, into people who are truly like Christ. This transformation requires that we die and enter into new life in Jesus Christ. The man who struggles to change himself in doing so shows that he knows nothing of the crucified life that is necessary to being changed by God. Again, see Romans 6; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 5:24; Galatians 6:14; Colossians 3:1-4, and so on.
In this thread, I think only Hopeful2 holds to the false doctrine of sinless perfection. S/he has been shown repeatedly how unbiblical this view is, but persists, nonetheless, in holding and promoting it. While sinless perfection in practice isn't possible, perennial bondage to sin isn't consistent with the life of the Christian described in Scripture, either.
Romans 6:1-7
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Hey All,
Keyboard Player, I am right there with you. I don't practice sin as a general lifestyle either. I don't lie. I don't cheat people. I don't cuss. (Well for the most part. I have to keep my anger in check or the four letter words can start up.) I am a decent person as I am sure you are as well.
"However, the impression I'm getting from this thread is that it is a one time only forgiveness at the time of salvation, and any sin after that is willful defiance that cannot be forgiven." Quote from Keyboard Player
Don't believe that impression. That is clearly not what John wrote.
1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
See I hang on the branch of the verse that states, "and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." That is where I live every day. First, John includes himself. Second, John tells me it wasn't easy for him either. Third, John made it.
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
If he can make it, we can also. So don't give up. The struggle is worth the effort.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
Keyboard Player, I am right there with you. I don't practice sin as a general lifestyle either. I don't lie. I don't cheat people. I don't cuss. (Well for the most part. I have to keep my anger in check or the four letter words can start up.) I am a decent person as I am sure you are as well.
"However, the impression I'm getting from this thread is that it is a one time only forgiveness at the time of salvation, and any sin after that is willful defiance that cannot be forgiven." Quote from Keyboard Player
Don't believe that impression. That is clearly not what John wrote.
1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
See I hang on the branch of the verse that states, "and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." That is where I live every day. First, John includes himself. Second, John tells me it wasn't easy for him either. Third, John made it.
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
If he can make it, we can also. So don't give up. The struggle is worth the effort.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
KeyboardPlayer
Member
Thank you for your comments, Taz. I can't imagine that God would save us simply to give up on us after committing a sin. Like you, I don't "practice" sin. I try to stay righteous in my daily actions. It gives me hope to know that Biblical characters did sin while having a relationship with God.