A Person is Justified by Works and not by Faith Alone

[Doulos Iesou]

This seems to be a really provocative thread title, but it really is just a quotation from Scripture.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24 (ESV)

What is your take on this text? What does it mean?

 

[Butch5]

This seems to be a really provocative thread title, but it really is just a quotation from Scripture.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24 (ESV)

What is your take on this text? What does it mean?

I believe it means just what it says, both faith and works are required for justification

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I believe it means just what it says, both faith and works are required for justification

Hi Butch5,

Do you have other Scriptures that bear on the topic, and can you provide your interpretation of James 2:24 in it's context? Interested in your thoughts.

 

[Kathi]

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that by the way we live and our works of obedience to God. It will be evident by the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22) and a desire to obey God and live a life that glorifies Him. Christians belong to Christ, and as His sheep they hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

True saving faith is always manifested by good works and a life that desires to live in obedience to God.Ephesians 2:8–10makes it clear that works do not save us but that we are saved “for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them.” When we are truly born again we will have hearts that are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. God’s law is written in our hearts so that we might walk in His statutes and judgments. As Paul wrote in2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. It is an empty profession of faith from someone to whom Christ will say, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.”


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-without-works-dead.html#ixzz3P363EtQ3

 

[chessman]

. James 2:24 (ESV)

What is your take on this text? What does it mean?

I completely believe what James said in his complete statement. Indeed you cannot 'see' a person's true inner faith, except you see their works.

I suppose it would be nice if you could look at person's clothes, length of their beard (or nose) in order to see their inner faith. But you can't. You can only see their works in order to see their faith. Plus, your own faith would be visible to others.

View attachment 5869

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

B

I completely believe what James said in his complete statement. Indeed you cannot 'see' a person's true inner faith, except you see their works.

I suppose it would be nice if you could look at person's clothes, length of their beard (or nose) in order to see their inner faith. But you can't. You can only see their works in order to see their faith. Plus, your own faith would be visible to others.

View attachment 5869

But what is the work of God?

 

[jonahmano]

B

But what is the work of God?

I don't think here we are talking about the "Work of God" it's rather God working through us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

B

But what is the work of God?

Works born of faith.

James speaks of those who did something because they had faith--what they did becoming the evidence of their faith. Many people think faith without works is a faith that can save them, not knowing that their lack of works signifies the absence of saving faith. This is the great deceit presently gripping the church. It's the thinking that says, 'I don't have to do anything to be saved because salvation is so entirely not of works', oblivious to the fact that if they had the faith that saves all by itself they'd be doing something.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I completely believe what James said in his complete statement. Indeed you cannot 'see' a person's true inner faith, except you see their works.

I suppose it would be nice if you could look at person's clothes, length of their beard (or nose) in order to see their inner faith. But you can't. You can only see their works in order to see their faith. Plus, your own faith would be visible to others.

View attachment 5869

So you think this Justification is towards man? That your faith is vindicated before others by your work?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Works born of faith.

James speaks of those who did something because they had faith--what they did becoming the evidence of their faith. Many people think faith without works is a faith that can save them, not knowing that their lack of works signifies the absence of saving faith. This is the great deceit presently gripping the church. It's the thinking that says, 'I don't have to do anything to be saved because salvation is so entirely not of works', oblivious to the fact that if they had the faith that saves all by itself they'd be doing something.

How do we tell the difference between the good works of a person, not knowing if they are Christian or, say, Buddhist?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't think here we are talking about the "Work of God" it's rather God working through us.

What kind of work are you referring to if it is not of God?
If your good works are done in the flesh, what good is it?
How do you do spiritual good works, how does it differ from good works in the flesh, how does it differ from the same good works done by an unsaved person?
Is the unsaved person also justified because of doing the same good works?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How do we tell the difference between the good works of a person, not knowing if they are Christian or, say, Buddhist?

Jesus helps us know:

27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return..." (Luke 6:27-35 NASB)

It's easy to be the do-gooder atheist/religionist. It's quite another to love others the way Jesus did/does. The distinction seems to center around how we deal with our enemies--those who've wronged us.

 

[Kathi]

Jesus helps us know:

27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return..." (Luke 6:27-35 NASB)

It's easy to be the do-gooder atheist/religionist. It's quite another to love others the way Jesus did/does. The distinction seems to center around how we deal with our enemies.

I agree.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How do you do spiritual good works, how does it differ from good works in the flesh...

Spiritual works are motivated by the desire to not do harm to people because of the grace of God you yourself have received, trusting God to continue to extend the grace you received in salvation to your everyday needs so that you don't have to hurt other people.

If your good works are done in the flesh, what good is it?

Even unbelievers can't be held guilty for wrong doing they didn't do.

 

[Deborah13]

How do we tell the difference between the good works of a person, not knowing if they are Christian or, say, Buddhist?

I understand exactly what you are saying.
I have a very close friend of 25 yrs. She used to be very bitter towards her ex-husband, his family, and his second wife. In the last few yrs. she has changed completely the bitterness is gone. She can speak of him and praise the things he has done right without ever condemning him. She prays for them. She never says anything bad about anyone and is helpful to others, not just her friends and those she naturally loves and likes.
But she does not believe that Jesus died for her sins. She believes Jesus was a man who knew God and that she should be like Him. She does not claim any particular religion at all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus helps us know:

27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return..." (Luke 6:27-35 NASB)

It's easy to be the do-gooder atheist/religionist. It's quite another to love others the way Jesus did/does. The distinction seems to center around how we deal with our enemies--those who've wronged us.

This all sounds good, but who does it?
There are many "eye for an eye" Christians.
Are they not saved?
How many people reading this who claim to be Christians would actually give the shirt off their back to somebody?
How many would give $100.00 to someone and never look to get it back?

It seems that your description of the good works that James is talking about is something that most Christians would never do.
Therefore, I say he is talking about something else.
In James 2: 18b; he says "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds".
Now in the same paragraph in verse 19, he says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even Demons believe that---and shudder".

Since these verses are put together, I ask, "how do they tie in together"?
If you are talking about doing good things to your neighbor, then it doesn't seem to be relevant.
But if you are talking about the work of God...

John 6:29;
"Jesus answered, the work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent".

If James is talking about this, then it all makes sense.
Tell me, who has the power, the one giving a thousand dollars in church to feed the poor, or the one out in the streets proclaiming the Gospel to everyone passing by?
Who has the power, the one praising Jesus all day long or the one sitting there trying to figure out if they've done all the right things for the week?
The power is Jesus.
We can do all the good works we want, but the power is in Jesus, nothing else.

Believing in Jesus and proclaiming it to the world is the good works that we are called to do.

 

[Obadiah]

Just another reminder to all and not directed at anyone in particular:


Christian Theology is by definition the study of God through His word, the Bible. Apologetics goes hand in hand with theology as it is the branch of Christian theology which attempts to give a rational defense of the Christian faith. That makes the Apologetics and Theology forum unique from many of our other forums in that this is a place specifically for these types of discussions.

With this in mind, the following guidelines should be followed.

• Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture.
• Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding.
• Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture.
• Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting.
• Once you have made a point, refrain from flooding the forum with numerous posts making the same point over and over with nothing new to support it.
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• Failing to answer someone’s question doesn’t necessarily amount to an admission of error or surrender but keep in mind that in any debate if you refuse to or can not answer a reasonable question, it may weaken your position.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems that your description of the good works that James is talking about is something that most Christians would never do.
Therefore, I say he is talking about something else.
In James 2: 18b; he says "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds".
Now in the same paragraph in verse 19, he says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even Demons believe that---and shudder".

Since these verses are put together, I ask, "how do they tie in together"?
If you are talking about doing good things to your neighbor, then it doesn't seem to be relevant.
But if you are talking about the work of God...

John 6:29;
"Jesus answered, the work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent".

If James is talking about this, then it all makes sense.
Tell me, who has the power, the one giving a thousand dollars in church to feed the poor, or the one out in the streets proclaiming the Gospel to everyone passing by?
Who has the power, the one praising Jesus all day long or the one sitting there trying to figure out if they've done all the right things for the week?
The power is Jesus.
We can do all the good works we want, but the power is in Jesus, nothing else.

Believing in Jesus and proclaiming it to the world is the good works that we are called to do.

Read James chapters 1 and 2 as a continuous thought (which it is) and then come back and tell me James is not talking about 'love your neighbor as yourself', and the various ways that is expressed, as the work that justifies a person.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Believing in Jesus and proclaiming it to the world is the good works that we are called to do.

That's all?

James and John both talk about having a faith that is not just lip service. That is the faith that saves all by itself--the faith that works. Any other faith is just empty lip service.

 

[petester]

(Edited. Forum guidelines: Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding. Obadiah)