A " Policeman "

[Lewis]

Paul Harvey " Policeman " One of His Best Narrations

 

[Lewis]

It is good to hear something good about them for a change, wouldn't you all agree ?

 

[Gary]

 

[Kathi]

Very good and I liked Paul Harvey's narratives.It said that a policeman has to apprehend "without being brutal".Has our world changed since then?Has the policeman changed since then?Are there other ways of apprehending a person rather than a choke hold?Did the policemen intentionally do the choke hold because of their hateful feelings?These are some of the questions I have.My dad was a cop so I have a soft spot in my heart for them but I have seen some things that I am disappointed.

 

[Lewis]

Well Kathi, he just should have let go when the dude said that he could not breath. But anyway there are only about 1 to 2 % bad cops and that is really small. Most cops do a good job, a honest job, I only get angry at the ones who don't. But thank God that it is only 1 to 2 % who don't get it right.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Very good and I liked Paul Harvey's narratives.It said that a policeman has to apprehend "without being brutal".Has our world changed since then?Has the policeman changed since then?Are there other ways of apprehending a person rather than a choke hold?Did the policemen intentionally do the choke hold because of their hateful feelings?These are some of the questions I have.My dad was a cop so I have a soft spot in my heart for them but I have seen some things that I am disappointed.

Kathi,
Officers are trained to take people down, I was trained in multiple way to kill them, bare handed. I watched the NY PD incident, several times to see, exactly what the officer did and
Choking someone to death, with the forearm, require the forearm be at least a 6" from the elbow contact with the chest of the perpetrator flat against the back of the victim because it is only successfully applied by pulling against the larynx with the muscles of both arms for over three minutes to kill. Failure to have one's chest or to have the throat in the correct region of the forearm may elongate the death point to as much as ten or better minutes.

The you Officer's elbow was at or near the larynx through out the entire filming making intentional strangulation impossible.

As for the man saying he could not breath, that was, most, likely due to the Anxiety Attack he induced on himself by resisting arrest. And the Officer followed protocol by every PD I know of. People, routinely, cry that the cuffs are to tight, that's because they can't pull their hands out and get loose. People complain they can't breath, routinely, when they are face down in the grass, the gravel, the street and when the Officer is lying on top of them and the stupidest thing any Cop can do is turn loose of any suspect that is resisting arrest before they know they have complete control.

I know these things for years in the clubs, on the streets and in public parks watching Officers do0 take downs. I still watch the same insanity when I watch Cops on TV, nothing has gotten better.

And the idea that the Officer used excessive force is insanity. The only way this could have and should have been avoided would have been for the man to just turn his back to the Officers and to put his hands behind him. And the idea of it being a racial thing is pure absurdity.

People cry all the time because they were doing seventy in a fifty-five zone. As a Professional Driver I often, much more often than I could ever afford, I drove past a Speed Sign with the sun in my eyes and got popped. I was always polite and I was never written for the 6 point ticket. (Going 15 over.) Because I always greeted them with a Howdy and my TDL being handed out the window, I was always charged with the lesser ticket and I never contested, I put the Money Order in an envelope and wrote it off as needing sun glasses in that situation.

Every man or woman I ever saw resist was taken down unil they were cuffed that s white, yellow, red, brown or black, they were all treated equally, with subduing force and continuing to bring it up only inflames people that do not care for the truth.

 

[jasonc]

I have had asthma attacks in the middle of training sessions on chokes. I know the other end of that but death? panic attack and anxiety is the key.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have had asthma attacks in the middle of training sessions on chokes. I know the other end of that but death? panic attack and anxiety is the key.

Yes, it is, I was a spelunker when I was in my teens and twenties and once, at Hot Springs, Fl, I was in the Indian Caves when my hips, both of them, contacted the walls on both sides. I had gone through that passage multiple times but this time I miscued my approach and only made it to the middle of the tight spot.

I had my first panic attack and the men I was with spent better than thirty mins. freeing me. That was my last time in a cave. For about 2 or 3 Mins. I was having a hard time breathing, panic will do that.

 

[Lewis]

That choke hold was outlawed in New York, but I did not post this topic to be a bad thing about cops, or turn into some kind of debate, so please do not turn it into one. I posted it to show the other side, which many people are not talking about now.

 

[Obadiah]

Kathi,
Officers are trained to take people down, I was trained in multiple way to kill them, bare handed. I watched the NY PD incident, several times to see, exactly what the officer did and
Choking someone to death, with the forearm, require the forearm be at least a 6" from the elbow contact with the chest of the perpetrator flat against the back of the victim because it is only successfully applied by pulling against the larynx with the muscles of both arms for over three minutes to kill. Failure to have one's chest or to have the throat in the correct region of the forearm may elongate the death point to as much as ten or better minutes.

The you Officer's elbow was at or near the larynx through out the entire filming making intentional strangulation impossible.

As for the man saying he could not breath, that was, most, likely due to the Anxiety Attack he induced on himself by resisting arrest. And the Officer followed protocol by every PD I know of. People, routinely, cry that the cuffs are to tight, that's because they can't pull their hands out and get loose. People complain they can't breath, routinely, when they are face down in the grass, the gravel, the street and when the Officer is lying on top of them and the stupidest thing any Cop can do is turn loose of any suspect that is resisting arrest before they know they have complete control.

I know these things for years in the clubs, on the streets and in public parks watching Officers do0 take downs. I still watch the same insanity when I watch Cops on TV, nothing has gotten better.

And the idea that the Officer used excessive force is insanity. The only way this could have and should have been avoided would have been for the man to just turn his back to the Officers and to put his hands behind him. And the idea of it being a racial thing is pure absurdity.

People cry all the time because they were doing seventy in a fifty-five zone. As a Professional Driver I often, much more often than I could ever afford, I drove past a Speed Sign with the sun in my eyes and got popped. I was always polite and I was never written for the 6 point ticket. (Going 15 over.) Because I always greeted them with a Howdy and my TDL being handed out the window, I was always charged with the lesser ticket and I never contested, I put the Money Order in an envelope and wrote it off as needing sun glasses in that situation.

Every man or woman I ever saw resist was taken down unil they were cuffed that s white, yellow, red, brown or black, they were all treated equally, with subduing force and continuing to bring it up only inflames people that do not care for the truth.

I wonder, are you familiar with the carotid choke holds that squash the carotid arteries and produce unconsciousness by momentarily stopping blood flow to the brain as opposed to bar arm choke holds that crush the larynx and stop air flow to the lungs to produce unconsciousness? When you say "...is only successfully applied by pulling against the larynx with the muscles of both arms..." that sounds like a description of a bar arm which would indeed stop the person from breathing. But it would also prevent them from saying they can't breath because when air can't pass the larynx, speech is impossible. When you say "...Officer's elbow was at or near the larynx through out the entire filming making intentional strangulation impossible" that sounds like where the elbow would be in a carotid choke hold, which would allow the person to breath and also to talk some even though he may feel like he can't. I can't remember If I've actually watched this video or not (I don't have regular TV so I'm not exposed to all the stuff on TV news) but by your description I wonder if he was using the carotid hold. Most departments went to using the carotid hold around 30 years ago because it is far less likely to cause death and doesn't injure anything like the larynx. Could that be what he was doing? I guess I'll have to go find the video when i get back later.

 

[Kathi]

I wonder, are you familiar with the carotid choke holds that squash the carotid arteries and produce unconsciousness by momentarily stopping blood flow to the brain as opposed to bar arm choke holds that crush the larynx and stop air flow to the lungs to produce unconsciousness? When you say "...is only successfully applied by pulling against the larynx with the muscles of both arms..." that sounds like a description of a bar arm which would indeed stop the person from breathing. But it would also prevent them from saying they can't breath because when air can't pass the larynx, speech is impossible. When you say "...Officer's elbow was at or near the larynx through out the entire filming making intentional strangulation impossible" that sounds like where the elbow would be in a carotid choke hold, which would allow the person to breath and also to talk some even though he may feel like he can't. I can't remember If I've actually watched this video or not (I don't have regular TV so I'm not exposed to all the stuff on TV news) but by your description I wonder if he was using the carotid hold. Most departments went to using the carotid hold around 30 years ago because it is far less likely to cause death and doesn't injure anything like the larynx. Could that be what he was doing? I guess I'll have to go find the video when i get back later.

Just by massaging the the carotid artery for a couple of seconds you can put yourself out.Doctors do it all the time to alter a heart rhythm.

 

[Kathi]

That choke hold was outlawed in New York, but I did not post this topic to be a bad thing about cops, or turn into some kind of debate, so please do not turn it into one. I posted it to show the other side, which many people are not talking about now.

I have had experiences with some really nice guys who were cops and a couple of bad eggs.There was once a house that was burning in our neighborhood a couple of blocks away.The cop that apprehended me was mean as a snake.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I wonder, are you familiar with the carotid choke holds that squash the carotid arteries and produce unconsciousness by momentarily stopping blood flow to the brain as opposed to bar arm choke holds that crush the larynx and stop air flow to the lungs to produce unconsciousness? When you say "...is only successfully applied by pulling against the larynx with the muscles of both arms..." that sounds like a description of a bar arm which would indeed stop the person from breathing. But it would also prevent them from saying they can't breath because when air can't pass the larynx, speech is impossible. When you say "...Officer's elbow was at or near the larynx through out the entire filming making intentional strangulation impossible" that sounds like where the elbow would be in a carotid choke hold, which would allow the person to breath and also to talk some even though he may feel like he can't. I can't remember If I've actually watched this video or not (I don't have regular TV so I'm not exposed to all the stuff on TV news) but by your description I wonder if he was using the carotid hold. Most departments went to using the carotid hold around 30 years ago because it is far less likely to cause death and doesn't injure anything like the larynx. Could that be what he was doing? I guess I'll have to go find the video when i get back later.

No, as rude as it seems, I was trained to kill and you gents are trained to subdue. In the Army we do not want to ever meet them again and with out legal system you gents are guaranteed to cross paths except they move their AO. But as you say, that would not have killed him.

 

[Obadiah]

No, as rude as it seems, I was trained to kill and you gents are trained to subdue. In the Army we do not want to ever meet them again and with out legal system you gents are guaranteed to cross paths except they move their AO. But as you say, that would not have killed him.

Yeah, understood that. I was just wondering if in the video you were seeing a carotid hold or a bar arm.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yeah, understood that. I was just wondering if in the video you were seeing a carotid hold or a bar arm.

I would be and was looking for the kill maneuver as I have witnessed it used when a cowboy overcame the first Officer. The County Mounty did not hold long enough to harm the fool because the other Officer was back on his knees cuffing the fool. I just never have seen the other one used.

 

[Obadiah]

I would be and was looking for the kill maneuver as I have witnessed it used when a cowboy overcame the first Officer. The County Mounty did not hold long enough to harm the fool because the other Officer was back on his knees cuffing the fool. I just never have seen the other one used.

I found the video and looked at it. It' only shows the position of his elbow for such a short time it's hard to tell. If that's where it was the whole time it was a carotid hold, which didn't block his breathing (as evidenced by the fact he could still talk). Even a bar arm would have hardly put him out that quick, much less killed him! Your right, it was extremely fast and it's hard to believe his death happened that fast from a carotid hold. There must have been something else going on with him that got triggered. But the fact remains had he cooperated with the orders of the officers he would still be alive today. If indeed it was a false arrest (as he claims he did nothing wrong), he would be alive today to sue them for false arrest. But as with most all of these videos, it's only a snapshot of a few seconds of what was really going on that day. There's almost always more to the story that isn't told.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I found the video and looked at it. It' only shows the position of his elbow for such a short time it's hard to tell. If that's where it was the whole time it was a carotid hold, which didn't restrict his breathing (as evidenced by the fact he could still talk). But your right, it was extremely fast and it's hard to believe his death happened that fast from a carotid hold. There must have been something else going on with him that got triggered. But the fact remains had he cooperated with the orders of the officers he would still be alive today. If indeed it was a false arrest (as he claims he did nothing wrong), he would be alive today to sue them for false arrest. But as with most all of these videos, it's only a snapshot of a few seconds of what was really going on that day. There's almost always more to the story that isn't told.

The latest update on the story, as heard on FNC is that there was, perhaps another two minutes that were not recorded where the Officers told him he would be out two hours after he was booked. But, you know those undesirable nasty facts of life.

 

[jasonc]

No, as rude as it seems, I was trained to kill and you gents are trained to subdue. In the Army we do not want to ever meet them again and with out legal system you gents are guaranteed to cross paths except they move their AO. But as you say, that would not have killed him.

as an mp, we have the same methods as cops.

 

[th1b.taylor]

as an mp, we have the same methods as cops.

LOL, I've never seen a Police Officer shoot a fleeing man as fast as I've MPs shoot and when the runner gets hit with ths Colt .45 Military, he spins like a top pulled to spin with a fifty yard string. That idiot, if he lived took a year to get over being dizzy. I knew right away, the MPs are not big on chasing you down.

 

[jasonc]

LOL, I've never seen a Police Officer shoot a fleeing man as fast as I've MPs shoot and when the runner gets hit with ths Colt .45 Military, he spins like a top pulled to spin with a fifty yard string. That idiot, if he lived took a year to get over being dizzy. I knew right away, the MPs are not big on chasing you down.

that has changed. mps do patrol ft.meade Maryland under some agreement.