electricaluser
Member
Does God say that his followers must put their faith only in him and in nothing else?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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A question about faith
- Thread starter electricaluser
- Start date
electricaluser
Member
Yeah ok, so it should not rest on the wrong thing, but what are the right things to put faith into. Are there more right things to put faith into including God as one of them.
Abigail123
Member
Putting our faith into God is not a one time event, it's a continual action verb, we keep following and obeying Him. As we practice these things, grow and mature in Christ, we learn there isn't much else to put our faith in. We will either let the world master us or allow God to and we know the world fails at every turn.
If i hired Edward to install a HVAC system in my home i have faith that he would do a good job. The faith i have in the Lord is a different 'faith'. Yet part of the reason i would have faith in what Edward would do is because of his faith and my faith in the Lord.
electricaluser
Member
Nope, not allowed
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electricaluser
Member
I have a question for you reba, if loving your neighbour is loving God then is having faith in someone having faith in God and vice versa.
God is always first. Putting your faith in God means you believe everything He says, and will do anything He tells you to do. If He tells you to spend the next few decades building an ark like He told Noah, you do so without question. You do so regardless of what anyone else says, or what your human reasoning tells you.
Hebrews 11 gives some examples of the type of faith that pleases God.
Without faith no one can please God. Hebrews 11:6a NCV
Christ_empowered
Member
Faith...Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1.
I've long had trouble with this. My Pentecostal friend, Verna, she's been helping me. For instance...I wanted to get better, physically, and to not be an obviously brain damaged mental patient. This was before I even got saved. I got saved 2 1/2 years ago, and now I am physically healthy and I'm no longer obviously brain damaged...I'm actually doing well in school.
So, I came to the conclusion that faith means knowing that, despite what's going on around you/me, you keep praying, reading your Word, thinking about God's grace and His goodness. For me, it means building a relationship with someone who loves me, but who I will never see in this lifetime. That's crazy talk for a lot of people.
Anyway, now that I'm healthy and surprisingly (miraculously?) smart enough to do my own thing, I've come to realize...faith isn't just about what God can do or has done for me and/or others in my life. Its about Proverbs 3:5-6, a lifestyle in which what I think matters less than what God says.
And...that is all from me.
I've long had trouble with this. My Pentecostal friend, Verna, she's been helping me. For instance...I wanted to get better, physically, and to not be an obviously brain damaged mental patient. This was before I even got saved. I got saved 2 1/2 years ago, and now I am physically healthy and I'm no longer obviously brain damaged...I'm actually doing well in school.
So, I came to the conclusion that faith means knowing that, despite what's going on around you/me, you keep praying, reading your Word, thinking about God's grace and His goodness. For me, it means building a relationship with someone who loves me, but who I will never see in this lifetime. That's crazy talk for a lot of people.
Anyway, now that I'm healthy and surprisingly (miraculously?) smart enough to do my own thing, I've come to realize...faith isn't just about what God can do or has done for me and/or others in my life. Its about Proverbs 3:5-6, a lifestyle in which what I think matters less than what God says.
And...that is all from me.
winepress
Member
It helps to understand what Faith really means, when we are given to know by word study that it is really "FIDELITY".
Since our entire relationship to Christ in the New Covenant is being Married to Him, we can relate the word Fidelity as a Wife to Her Husband, the King of Israel.
In the OT, God's wife Israel wasn't "faithful", and is over and over referred to as a Harlot of Abominations whom He divorced, because of Her "whoredoms". In fact, after He divorced her, she went and married the Babylonians. All that means of course, is that they forsook being "Faithful" in Fidelity, by whoring after other gods, and even worse, began teaching for commandments of God, the doctrines of men. I can show all the refs, but I'm guessing most folk know this scriptures.
Anyway, let's be full of FIDELITY to our Husband Jesus and bring forth much fruit
(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ...be married to ...him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Since our entire relationship to Christ in the New Covenant is being Married to Him, we can relate the word Fidelity as a Wife to Her Husband, the King of Israel.
In the OT, God's wife Israel wasn't "faithful", and is over and over referred to as a Harlot of Abominations whom He divorced, because of Her "whoredoms". In fact, after He divorced her, she went and married the Babylonians. All that means of course, is that they forsook being "Faithful" in Fidelity, by whoring after other gods, and even worse, began teaching for commandments of God, the doctrines of men. I can show all the refs, but I'm guessing most folk know this scriptures.
Anyway, let's be full of FIDELITY to our Husband Jesus and bring forth much fruit
(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ...be married to ...him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Jesus Martyr
Member
Yes, I am full of Fidelity to only my Husband
Edward
2024 Supporter
That is a good way to approach workmen in todays world. I do the same. My work is unto the Lord instead of the customer, and evidence of the Lord in the home is practically a co-signer in my mind. I've found that keeping the business focused upon the Lord is a good way to run it.
Not having to trust in the people and continuing to trust in the Lord is the only way to go in today's marketplace...
R
Runner
Guest
No, we all put our faith in a thousand different things a day, from the laws of thermodynamics to our spouses. "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Mark 16:17 (New American Standard). Know many people who put their faith in God to the extent of picking up rattlesnakes and drinking cyanide? (Rhetorical question - no, you don't, and those who do generally end up dead.) We put our faith in God for salvation and moral truths; we put our faith in rational deductions and inferences for almost everything else (unless we are irrational, in which case we put our faith in things without rhyme nor reason, a not uncommon phenomenon). One could, of course, take this to the extreme and say that all that exists is God's creation and my rationality is a gift from God - ergo, everything I do is an exercise of faith in God.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Yeah, it seems as if one has faith past a certain point, that they get mocked and asked if they play on the freeway while keeping their faith, lol. Almost like it's absurd to have real faith. It is the reasoning mind that makes us think that faith in other than God is reasonable.
I *think* that our reasoning or rational mind is not a gift from God and is part of the deception. To have the knowledge of, or know good and evil is part of the deception that we live under. We're told to not lean upon our own understanding repeatedly in scripture. I wonder why this is?
Maybe because we had a different way of 'thinking' before the fall (and perhaps now also?). I think that when one doesn't know something and is "thinking" about it, (as a spiritual being), what is really being done is that, from a different place in ones being (not their brain) they are focused upon the Lord with their heart set to "receive" and the Spirit releases the needed knowledge to them, no "reasoning" or "rationale" needed. Simply being one with our Lord is. Many call this being given "words of knowledge."
But for one to conduct themselves in this manner among kinsmen is to be ridiculed in today's world. Reasoning and rationale is a good thing (purportedly) and sure sounds good on paper! But when we try and reason things out instead of looking to the Lord, we're being worldly and having a lack of faith. The carnal mind is enmity against God. But since we (generally) do not have this understanding of how a spiritual being thinks and so forth, it is easily dismissed as weirdness and not spiritual, even from Christians.
I know a brother on this board that gave away his rent money against his reasoning, and against his Wife's wishes, but was told to by the Lord so he did. Of course everything turned out good for him because this was of the Lord. But it went against all reason so could not be accepted by most as a testimony. That's how faith works, against reason.
Remember Peter, who walked on water for a short bit until he took his eyes off of the Lord? Same thing. When he took his eyes off of the Lord and began to reason out his situation (being in water that could drown him)...he began to sink immediately and had to be saved by the Lord. Food for thought...
Jesus Martyr
Member
I believe you are quite right Edward. I began to see around thirty years ago that our self willed mind IS the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". All the other "trees in the garden good for fruit" was, as is described in Galations, "fruit of the spirit"...
(Gal 5:22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(Gal 5:23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Gal 5:24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (which was what God was hoping Adam would do of course).
And of course the "Tree of Life" would have been "obedience to the Word of God" bringing forth eternal Life.
The mind of Adam, "knowledge of good and evil", if he had continued to use it as intended, had a definite purpose. And God observed Adam in this purpose, which was;
(Gen 2:19) And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And whatever Adam decided, that was what He Named them!
Of course Adam failed to carry through with God's intent of calling a New Name... But Jesus, the second Adam, He has been moving forward in the giving of the Name!
(Rev 22:4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(Mat 16:17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealeditunto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 16:18)And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Rev 2:17)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receivethit.
(Rev 3:12)Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God,which isnew Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: andI will write upon him my new name.
Incredible isn't it :yes
(Gal 5:22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(Gal 5:23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Gal 5:24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (which was what God was hoping Adam would do of course).
And of course the "Tree of Life" would have been "obedience to the Word of God" bringing forth eternal Life.
The mind of Adam, "knowledge of good and evil", if he had continued to use it as intended, had a definite purpose. And God observed Adam in this purpose, which was;
(Gen 2:19) And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And whatever Adam decided, that was what He Named them!
Of course Adam failed to carry through with God's intent of calling a New Name... But Jesus, the second Adam, He has been moving forward in the giving of the Name!
(Rev 22:4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(Mat 16:17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealeditunto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 16:18)And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Rev 2:17)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receivethit.
(Rev 3:12)Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God,which isnew Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: andI will write upon him my new name.
Incredible isn't it :yes
R
Runner
Guest
I don't know that I would go quite as far as saying that our rational mind is part of the deception, but I do agree to a very large extent with what you say. It is interesting that in almost ALL spiritual traditions, the sages teach that the divine cannot be approached through the rational, dualistic (this vs. that) thinking that we use in our everyday lives but must be approached through intuition. They teach that intuition is in fact a higher form of "knowing." This is viewed differently in the Christian context, of course, because we see it as opening ourselves to the Holy Spirit rather than relying on intuition, but the principle is much the same.
LovethroughDove
Member
John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." ~ talking about himself
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." ~ talking about himself
It is also the reasoning mind that makes us think that faith in God is reasonable. We are rational beings because we are created in the image of a rational God. Without reasoning, we couldn't communicate, we couldn't know if what we knew was true, and we would be lucky to make it through one day alive. Indeed, your very post shows that you are reasoning. Reading the Bible makes use of reason. An irrational mind is one that cannot understand reality.
Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ."
Act 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Act 18:19 And they came to Ephesus, and he left them there, but he himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.
Act 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Act 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.
Act 24:25 And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, "Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you."
1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
Those are some of the verses which show the use of reasoning in Scripture. Regardless, we cannot not reason because it is inherent in who we are, created in the image of God.
Edward
2024 Supporter
I'll but that, it's scripture. And leads right into the point I was trying to make. Ok, we do reason, no matter what type of being that we are, (physical or spiritual). From when is the source of the reasoning though? From the brain or from the heart?
science can not find the source of consciousness. So it can't really be said conclusively that we reason from the brain or the heart. What we do know from testing is that both the brain and heart both are transmitters, and that the heart is at least four times more powerful of a transmitter than the brain is, and can be picked up further away than the brains transmissions.
So it is my belief that man "thought" with his heart before the fall, for this is how the spiritual being thinks. We were created in Gods image, and had daily relationship with God. We are spiritual beings... and then we fell, and began to think with our brain instead of our heart and became accustomed to living and thinking this way (after the flesh).
I have been reasoning, you are correct. But there is a point where reasoning and faith cross. and the source of the reasoning comes from the heart, and the reasoning is taught to us by God, and is exactly where the trust comes into play. There's always unknowns and unseens with trust/faith. If one consciously does this, and feeds his spirit with the Word, then one is living for the spirit and the way that they are supposed to. Once one begins living like that, the renewing process begins to take place and it becomes "natural" for us to think like this.
Whaddaya know! All those teenage girls were right! We should all be living for the heart and not the brain.
