a question about Jesus???

[rrtr]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

 

[seekandlisten]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

The age old question. This topic was recently discussed in a couple of different threads and you will get many opinions on it. The majority of christians believe that Jesus was God as explained in the trinity doctrine or variation of it. The minority of christians hold the belief the Jesus is not equal to God and have various opinions as to what level of divinity he had.

You can look back in church history and you will see Arius, a church priest, being deemed a heretic by the Council of Nicea in 325 for his teachings referred to as Arianism which was against Jesus being equal to God. He was then exonerated of these heretic charges in 335 and then deemed a heretic again after his death. Constantine and the Concil of Nicea ended the debate in 325 by establishing the trinity doctrine and the nicene creed as Church doctrine. This is the basics anyways.

 

[follower of Christ]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

Oh brother.
Its one trinity thread after another around here...one is never enough.

Jesus is God the SON.
If Jesus ISNT God then how come the angels worship Him ?
How come Jesus DIDNT stop Thomas from calling Him GOD when even the ANGELS stopped John from doing so with them ? Was Jesus ignorant of the rules ??????

 

[follower of Christ]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

Oh brother.
Its one trinity thread after another around here...one is never enough.

Jesus is God the SON.
If Jesus ISNT God then how come the angels worship Him ?
How come Jesus DIDNT stop Thomas from calling Him GOD when even the ANGELS stopped John from worshipping them ? Was Jesus ignorant of the rules ??????

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(Hebrews 1:5-6 KJV)

 

[follower of Christ]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

Oh brother.
Its one trinity thread after another around here...one is never enough.

Jesus is God the SON.
If Jesus ISNT God then how come the angels worship Him ?
How come Jesus DIDNT stop Thomas from calling Him GOD when even the ANGELS stopped John from worshipping them ? Was Jesus ignorant of the rules ??????

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[follower of Christ]

The Trinity
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that Jesus IS God and to show that the Holy Spirit IS God and therefore the Trinity teaching is scriptural truth.

Supporting Evidence

1.0
Is Jesus God ?

Isaiah shows us exactly who Jesus is.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

If Jesus isnt God, why doesnt He correct Thomas here as He had corrected others ?

And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
(Joh 20:28 MKJV)

If Jesus isnt His own person in the Godhead, then He must be a liar here because He shows that the FATHER knows the day and hour here, but the SON does not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son.


1.5

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(Colossians 2:9 EMTV)


Godhead
G2320
??????
theot?s
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead


G2320
??????
theot?s
theh-ot'-ace
From G2316; divinity (abstractly): - godhead.

REGARDLESS of how the word theotes was RENDERED, its MEANING and INTENT is 'divinity'...ie Jesus Christ is DIVINE...ie a DEITY....ie GOD.
If Jesus IS God yet Jesus does NOT KNOW the day and hour of His return but ONLY the Father does (aka GOD) then there MUST BE some DISTINCTION between them...even tho BOTH ARE God.


Is the Son 'God' ?

But to the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
(Hebrews 1:8 MKJV)

G2316
????
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Oddly enough the Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying...

Because of this the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but also He called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
(John 5:18 EMTV)

Is Jesus worthy of worship?

But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
(Hebrews 1:6 EMTV)

Jesus The Creator

Who Created in the beginning ?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

God did.

For He has delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son; in whom we have redemption through His blood, the remission of sins. who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
(Colossians 1:13-17 MKJV)

All things were created in Him...all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible..all things were created THROUGH him and for Him.
Who is 'Him' in this passage ?
Sounds like 'His dear Son' to me.


2.0
Is the Holy Spirit 'God' ?

scripture shows that the Spirit of GOD came down upon Christ...

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him.
(Mat 3:16 EMTV)

And Luke shows that this IS the Holy Spirit.

and the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came out of heaven, saying, "You are My beloved Son; in You I have found delight."
(Luk 3:22 EMTV)

Thus the evidence shows that the 'Spirit of God' and the 'Holy Spirit' are one and the same.

3.0
And here we tie it all together.

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him. And behold, a voice came out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I have found delight."
(Matthew 3:16-17 EMTV)

1. Jesus, the Son who is called 'Mighty God' in Isaiah.
2. The Spirit descending in the form of a dove, who is the Spirit OF God.
3. The Father speaking from heaven, obvious enough.

 

[handy]

Now comes the part where we're told that the Scriptures cannot be accurate. :bigfrown

 

[seekandlisten]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

Oh brother.
Its one trinity thread after another around here...one is never enough.

Jesus is God the SON.
If Jesus ISNT God then how come the angels worship Him ?
How come Jesus DIDNT stop Thomas from calling Him GOD when even the ANGELS stopped John from doing so with them ? Was Jesus ignorant of the rules ??????

Just a thought, seeing as it's new member and it is an honest question, maybe direct them to the other threads that have just discussed this topic. As they are new, you may not realize that they may be someone who may not be aware of christianity's doctrines.

 

[rrtr]

but my friend Jesus has never said i am GOD and has never said worship me... he said in Gospel of Jhon chapter 5 verse 30 " By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
John 14:28 "Father is greater than I" and many many verses...ect but there is no verse that Jesus said i am GOD or worship me...because if he is GOD you would find in all the bibles I AM GOD clear... but he said by myself i can do nothing and again for i seek not to please myself but who sent me... so that's clear that he is not GOD because if he is he would say by myself i can do everything because i am GOD i am the one who creates you right...

 

[ronniechoate34]

if Jesus was GOD, how come he worshiped GOD???

Jesus was fully man and fully God, not only that but He was set forth as an example for us. So I am believe that worship and love for God were naturally a part of Jesus Christ as a man.

 

[handy]

Frankly, if it takes one thread, a hundred threads or a thousand threads, I don't mind discussing the divinity of Christ. I do realize that it is a stumbling block for some, and we do need to be ready to give answers, especially as new folks come that truly do not understand.

It's just when we've shown the same texts over and over and the only answer back is to then question the validity of the texts, which has happened a lot more than once around here. That's I get :bigfrown .

So often, the question regarding the divinity of Jesus doesn't come from real misunderstanding of the doctrine, but rather of an unwillingness to accept it, coupled with a refusal to believe that at the very least the Bible does most definitely teach that Jesus was indeed God the Son as well as the Son of God. One can, and many do, disagree with the Scriptures, but the Scriptures do, without any doubt, teach that Jesus is God the Son.

I also question the idea (sorry seekandlisten) that there are "levels" of divinity. I don't believe that is a concept that is taught by scripture at all. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit are all divine God. None else are divine.

rrtr, Follower of Christ has provided some really great study material. There are is a wealth of Scriptures that deal with God the Son that he has provided. I encourage you to study them and then ask questions about those texts. Christianity is based upon ALL of the Scriptures, not just only the words spoken by Jesus when He was walking around down here. It's very clearly taught that He is God.

 

[ronniechoate34]

but my friend Jesus has never said i am GOD and has never said worship me... he said in Gospel of Jhon chapter 5 verse 30 " By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
John 14:28 "Father is greater than I" and many many verses...ect but there is no verse that Jesus said i am GOD or worship me...because if he is GOD you would find in all the bibles I AM GOD clear... but he said by myself i can do nothing and again for i seek not to please myself but who sent me... so that's clear that he is not GOD because if he is he would say by myself i can do everything because i am GOD i am the one who creates you right...

Jesus said and did many things that placed Him in the position of almighty God. Only God can do as Jesus did here on earth. Jesus Himself did in fact refer to Himself as God, as the I am that existed before Abraham. Also in Revelations Jesus refers to Himself as the alpha the omega and the almighty. Some people toss Revelations away. People who hate the truth.

 

[seekandlisten]

but my friend Jesus has never said i am GOD and has never said worship me... he said in Gospel of Jhon chapter 5 verse 30 " By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
John 14:28 "Father is greater than I" and many many verses...ect but there is no verse that Jesus said i am GOD or worship me...because if he is GOD you would find in all the bibles I AM GOD clear... but he said by myself i can do nothing and again for i seek not to please myself but who sent me... so that's clear that he is not GOD because if he is he would say by myself i can do everything because i am GOD i am the one who creates you right...

Here is the link to a recent thread on the debate.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258

There is no answer only a matter of opinions. This debate has been going on since the 2nd, 3rd century so it's mainly one side of the argument against the other.

 

[handy]

I'm going to disagree with you again, seekandlisten, (respectfully disagree) that "its only a matter of opinion".

The fact that Jesus is God is not "only a matter of opinion". It is a doctrine that is clearly pointed to in the Old Testament, dealt with in the gospels, and firmly established in the epistles.

What comes down to "opinion" is the opinion of one as to whether or not to accept what the Scriptures teach about Christ, or decide, I don't believe the Bible on this, there must be something wrong with the validity of the texts.

 

[rrtr]

but my friend we need proof... give me a verse that he said with his own words i am GOD... if you can find a verse that Jesus said with his own words I am GOD Worship me i will convert to Christianity right now...

Jesus peace be upon him ate food and drink water if he didn't he would have die... so how can you imagine a GOD feel hungry or thirsty... GOD does not need anything to keep his existence... GOD does not need air, food, water...ect we know that GOD send religion clear for everybody ... we need explanations something that makes sence... not i am Christian because i've been born christian and it's the right thing that's it... you gotta have proofs...GOD gaves us minds to use and think and see what is right what is wrong what make sence and other things like believe in it it's the right thing you do not need proof or explanation just faith... i'm not trying to upset any Christian i love Jesus peace be upon him sosososos much he is one of the mightest messengers in Islam if you do not believe in Jesus you are not muslim... but sir i'm giving proofs from the bible that he didnt say i am GOD and i wil give you more verses from your own book the bible to proof he is not GOD ... you gott give me proof that he said i am GOD... isn't that fair???

 

[handy]

rrtr, if you are not going to accept what the law, the prophets, and the apostles have to say regarding Christ, you will not accept any "proof" either.

 

[seekandlisten]

I'm going to disagree with you again, seekandlisten, (respectfully disagree) that "its only a matter of opinion".

The fact that Jesus is God is not "only a matter of opinion". It is a doctrine that is clearly pointed to in the Old Testament, dealt with in the gospels, and firmly established in the epistles.

What comes down to "opinion" is the opinion of one as to whether or not to accept what the Scriptures teach about Christ, or decide, I don't believe the Bible on this, there must be something wrong with the validity of the texts.

I respect your views handy, but what I meant by opinions was merely to try and stay neutral in this conversation as my beliefs usually stir up discord. This debate has been going on for 1700 years or more so I would have to think opinion does come into play a bit. Can I ask for clarification what you meant by the sentence I have highlighted?

Edit: Nevermind it just clicked in, my bad I read it too fast.

 

[follower of Christ]

Just a thought, seeing as it's new member and it is an honest question, maybe direct them to the other threads that have just discussed this topic. As they are new, you may not realize that they may be someone who may not be aware of christianity's doctrines.

Im not much one for thought...so...you know

 

[follower of Christ]

but my friend Jesus has never said i am GOD and has never said worship me... he said in Gospel of Jhon chapter 5 verse 30 " By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
John 14:28 "Father is greater than I" and many many verses...ect but there is no verse that Jesus said i am GOD or worship me...because if he is GOD you would find in all the bibles I AM GOD clear... but he said by myself i can do nothing and again for i seek not to please myself but who sent me... so that's clear that he is not GOD because if he is he would say by myself i can do everything because i am GOD i am the one who creates you right...

So if Jesus didnt SAY 'I AM GOD", then the only possible conclusion is that He isnt ?
What if Jesus didnt say He wasnt of the male gender....does that make Him a woman ?

We dont just go by what Jesus said, rrtr (something about that name....), we go by the WHOLE of Gods word.

The angels will worship Him....are we better than they ?

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(Hebrews 1:5-6 KJV)

 

[follower of Christ]

but my friend we need proof... give me a verse that he said with his own words i am GOD... if you can find a verse that Jesus said with his own words I am GOD Worship me i will convert to Christianity right now...

No offense, but something is VERY fishy about all this.
Again, no offense.

Either you CAN accept the evidence from Gods word or you cant. Which is it ?
GOD alone is to be worshipped, r....ONLY God....and yet HERE it is said that the angels are to worship Him.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(Hebrews 1:5-6 KJV)

That one verse is entirely enough for the person looking for truth.

... you gott give me proof that he said i am GOD... isn't that fair???

Actually, friend, no we arent REQUIRED to give you anything at all but the simple facts.
If YOU dismiss them that is on YOU and YOU will be responsible for your rejection of said facts.

Your putting unreasonable demands on the text and my guess is that you already know what Jesus DIDNT say and that is why we are playing this game like this.

Do you post here under any other names ?