Walpole
Member
This is not the objection Jews have to Jesus. The reason they reject Jesus is because Jews believe God would not, could not, and should not become man.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
A Question For Jewish Believers in Christ
- Thread starter JT4444
- Start date
journeymanisnothing
Member
Hello Walpole.
It doesn't matter, because Jesus never taught that men should worship him. He did teach that all men should worship as he demonstrated.
Also, both OT and NT prophesy how the Messiah will be worshipped by all mankind, but there are no scriptures which say when the Messiah first appears, he will demand worship as God.
In fact, properly interpreted the NT writers clearly show how the Messiah would be rejected by unbelievers.
There are Jewish people who can see how Jesus perfectly taught the Torah and believe in him for that reason. I've even heard of rabbis' who've read the NT and have no problem with anything he said.
Walpole
Member
Matthew 14:33 ---> Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
journeymanisnothing
Member
They worshipped him as they came to know him better. He never discouraged them from worshipping him, but he never commanded them to worship him.
Jesus directed all worship to God.....as an example of how sinners should worship God.
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 1Pet.2:19
Because of our thoughts toward God, endue suffering wrongfully.....??? Who does that?
when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 1Pet.2:20
Doing well, suffering for it patiently.....is acceptable with God??? Who does that?
here unto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pet.2:21
His steps,
Who did no sin,neither was guile found in his mouth.....when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 1Pet.2:22-23
Suffering wronfully...for doing right...is sin.
Sin being committed against anyone for their faith in Jesus. So when an angel says,
See thou do it not Rev.19:10
I'm sure Jesus didn't forbid men from worshipping him, cause he's not only The Sacrifice. He's The Judge,
journeymanisnothing
Member
Walpole,
I've posted this somewhere before, but never got a reply, but I would like your view on it,
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Isa.6:1
Isaiah sees God in a vision, but John says,
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Jn.12:38-41
Why did John mesh Isaiahs' vision of God with the "suffering servant"?
I've posted this somewhere before, but never got a reply, but I would like your view on it,
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Isa.6:1
Isaiah sees God in a vision, but John says,
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Jn.12:38-41
Why did John mesh Isaiahs' vision of God with the "suffering servant"?
Walpole
Member
FYI, Christians believe Jesus is God.
Walpole
Member
John is demonstrating that Christ is the Logos.
journeymanisnothing
Member
I know that my friend, but you said Jews don believe Jesus is God and therefore don't believe he's the Messiah.
The first disciples who believed in him were all Jews, but they didn't know him that well.
Personally, I believe John referred to God as the suffering servant in Isaiahs' vision because Isaiah saw the mangled body of Jesus. I think Isaiah saw the restraint Jesus showed in not having sinners put to death.
Walpole
Member
Right, the first disciples and converts were Jews. But when Jews convert to Christianity (including the first disciples), they cease practicing Judaism and instead embrace and practice Christianity (i.e. they believe in Jesus Christ).
journeymanisnothing
Member
And the Logos says Gof gives sinners who despise his Logos time to rethink our position. We should thank him for never changing,
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Mal.3:6
Walpole
Member
I am not following the point you are tying to make.
journeymanisnothing
Member
The point is, the written logos of God was transgressed when the Logos in flesh was sinned against.
You can see how God patiently endured sin against himself by his earthly example in Christ, right?
Walpole
Member
I still do not understand your point.
Christ is the Logos. The Logos is not written. The Logos is a Person.
"In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word (Logos) was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." - John 1:1-5
journeymanisnothing
Member
Logos also means written or spoken word,
Jesus said some rabbis' made "the word (logos) of God of none effect through your tradition." Mk.7:13
Jesus was referring to the law of Moses as the logos of God.
The light of Gods' Word says be like our Father. The Messiah showed us his Father,
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father Jn.14:9
Those in darkness cannot comprehend the love God showed to people filled with hate.
journeymanisnothing
Member
When I was growing up, I didn't know it was written by Jews either. I thought Christianity was a different religion from what "the Jews" believe. One Jewish guy told me Jews believe many different things within Judaism, like different denominations within Christianity. He also acknowledged that the 1st Christians were all Jews and wrote the NT. He said all sects of Judaism consider the NT writers heretic Jews.
Yes, Christ the anointing (teaching) Holy Spirit of God dwelt in the Son of man, Jesus . Jesus did his will of the Holy Father the one with power to raise the dead. Yoked with the father the promised ministry of two, came into effect .
Two is the witness our unseen God has spoke The faith (power of God) needed to believe God . .comes from God. . . not from the imaginations of a hard heart.
Paul taught that gentiles did not need to become Jewish (to halachically convert) in order to be a part of the body of Messiah, but he did not have an issue with the customs and traditions. Those traditions and customs are not salvific, but that is a different issue.
A "shadow" of things to come. Paul taught the importance is found through faith in the Son. Christ crucified is what he preached. Otherwise he would have not received 40 lashes minus 1 5 times from the so called Jews. And Paul preached the same gospel messages to the Jews as he did to the gentiles. Most Jews were offended. Many gentiles received his message with joy.
None of that says that Paul taught that the believers should not practice Jewish custom and traditions, on the contrary, history shows that the believers were keeping most custom and traditions for quite some time. The importance of the Gospel is the Son, the literal Word of God, but that still does not mean that keeping the Law as believers is not of value. Just because we don't have to do something does not mean we should not.