What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A question of boundries.

P

Pebbles

Guest
This probably isn't an appropriate place to post this but I'm not permitted to post in the more appropriate forum. (That'd probably be the female only forum)

I'd presume that more or less all of you are big fans of the "no sex before marriage" thing... cool do what you wish. This is why I need to ask you somthing.

Basically I've made no secret of my condition to you. I take female hormones and because I transitioned young and I have a female Body, Voice, Breasts, Face ect I live full time as a female... The exception is of course Genitalia whitch is male. It causes alot of dissonance, Psychologically for me meaning I can't use the thing even if I wanted to, Meaning yes I'm a virgin.
This also means I have to avoid intimate relationships not for want but simple practicallity.

Yet dispite this men don't always know my condition and they do approach me flirt with me ect and I'd rather not humiliate myself all the time telling them, "Oh btw I have male genitalia" That's dangerous for one. I'd rather they just don't approach me. So I dress is rather bland conservative clothes and avoid giving out signals that might encourage them (Not looking at them ect). Yet instead of loosing male intrest I get REALLY scary creepy men soliciting me for sex more frequently if anything.

I asked my female friend she says "Yeah your a girl now this happens to young women." I said how I tried to discourage it and she pointed out that only made it worse because they fantisize about shy naiive virgin girls, and I was totally emitting that vibe with the way I was dressing and in my body language.

So I ask you a community who's females have presumably been in similar situations and equally have no intrest in male companionship if for different reasons... Do you have any suggestions on discouraging this?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well this hasn't happened to me often but when it has, I've gotten very defensive. Even a little rude. If they don't back off, do what you have to, don't worry about it. Quite frankly, it's self defense. I'm not saying get violent but if they won't back off, you might have to be just to get away.

Again, very little experience.

Random, but I was born female and still haven't been approved to the female forum. :confused:
 
Pebbles said:
This probably isn't an appropriate place to post this but I'm not permitted to post in the more appropriate forum. (That'd probably be the female only forum)

I'd presume that more or less all of you are big fans of the "no sex before marriage" thing... cool do what you wish. This is why I need to ask you somthing.

Basically I've made no secret of my condition to you. I take female hormones and because I transitioned young and I have a female Body, Voice, Breasts, Face ect I live full time as a female... The exception is of course Genitalia whitch is male. It causes alot of dissonance, Psychologically for me meaning I can't use the thing even if I wanted to, Meaning yes I'm a virgin.
This also means I have to avoid intimate relationships not for want but simple practicallity.

Yet dispite this men don't always know my condition and they do approach me flirt with me ect and I'd rather not humiliate myself all the time telling them, "Oh btw I have male genitalia" That's dangerous for one. I'd rather they just don't approach me. So I dress is rather bland conservative clothes and avoid giving out signals that might encourage them (Not looking at them ect). Yet instead of loosing male intrest I get REALLY scary creepy men soliciting me for sex more frequently if anything.

I asked my female friend she says "Yeah your a girl now this happens to young women." I said how I tried to discourage it and she pointed out that only made it worse because they fantisize about shy naiive virgin girls, and I was totally emitting that vibe with the way I was dressing and in my body language.

So I ask you a community who's females have presumably been in similar situations and equally have no intrest in male companionship if for different reasons... Do you have any suggestions on discouraging this?
Click to expand...
ok pebbles, given that you are a transgender and i am a male. i would be up front. why do i say this beside common sense.the man that was with a cross gender and did act soft at times. so i do know what its like to be in those shoes.

the problem i think may be is the fact that some wierd phantasy of perverts is what you are projecting.darn porn.
 
jasoncran said:
ok pebbles, given that you are a transgender and i am a male. i would be up front. why do i say this beside common sense.the man that was with a cross gender and did act soft at times. so i do know what its like to be in those shoes.

the problem i think may be is the fact that some wierd phantasy of perverts is what you are projecting.darn porn.
Click to expand...

Jason, as Pebbles said, that would be dangerous. It could mean a total beat down, so I don't think it's a good idea.

Well, Pebbles, I have plenty of advice to offer on the spiritual side, but I don't think it would be beneficial to an atheist, unfortunately.

God is the only reason I am protected from such unholy situations as the ones you have described. But if you so desire, whether you are His follower or not, Christ would be more then willing to protect you if you ask it of Him. It's not because of what you do or don't do, but this protection from Him is entirely a reflection of His goodness, His inward love and generosity to all of mankind (not just those who follow Him). "For God so loved the [entire] world..." right?

Practically speaking, my advice to you is--use your iPod! On campus, I make sure I always keep my earphones on even if I'm not listening to my iPod. I also wear a promise ring, so that causes many people mistake it as an engagement ring. That helps too. Overall, God protects my honor and chastity, and I give thanks for to Him for that. (I'm trying my hardest not to speak in Christianese.)

Womanizers will be womanizers. I have seen guys on campus cat call or approach Muslim women who are in full Muslim garb! (e.g. only their eyes showing) Talk about crazy :screwloose
 
i stated that as i am one of those men that wasnt a creep and did talk to him that was in a sense just like peebles( i cant believe i bothered to comment)not all men are going to punch the lbgt.

do you think that even in peebles state that some man wouldn't be unatracted to her? you would be suprized.i have had a well rather humorous expercience that did happen to me and i wanst bothered by the transgered and she did really look good afterwords as i let them eyes get the best of me.a man will want to talk to her and also find her a good person to be around. this doesnt mean that she will have to be willing to date just have to let him down.meaning like i went through aslo.when i was single and was lonely i found this lesbian attractive(she wasnt really ugly nor ruge nor even manly) just intellgent. i love talking to her and she appeared to be like our talks, i almost asked her for her digits,but one day i heard rumours that she was a lesbian and i then a yr later saw that for myself.i asked her and we still talk and i would talk to her even now(of course as friend).
that same thing could happen to pebbles.

on that transgender. i was on my way to the restroom and i saw her with the large breasts and they werent hidden as the top was looooow cut,and she had shaved legs and high heels and a real short skirt. she was a flirt with the guys that were talking to her and she smelled of beer.i had to relieve myself and the ladies restroom was inop. i went to the mens first and went to use the urinal and as i went to the open the door to the bathroom .i told her that the men room was the only one working and i will go quickly and in manly voice she says" I'VE GOT THE PLUMBLING TO USE THE URINAL AND IF YOU DONT MIND I WILL USE THE THE COMMODE" I said i would rather go alone and when i was done i told the clerk, she couldnt believe it.
 
I agree that not every guy is a creep, nor will they hurt a transgender. I suppose discernment is needed. :chin

Wow, it seems so much easier to be a Christian in the dating world. I can sum it up with: You stay away from the opposite sex until "love is stirred." You pray and ask God to lead you to your future spouse. You wait. God does the rest. Marriage. Happiness." If only all Christians took this approach to "dating." There would be so much less heartbreak and so much more emotional and sexual purity.

But, let's not derail Pebbles thread Jason. So don't reply to me because then you'll tempt me to reply to you :rolling

Sorry, Pebbles :nod
 
I agree that telling of your transgender status would be dangerous in some situations, and unless your a mind-reader or have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you probably won't know it's dangerous in a particular situation until it's too late.

Things like cat-calls, and just general boorishness, ignore it. Men can be really dumb.

As far as guys who are looking for a date...most guys do pick up on the non-verbal hints. But, there are always some guys who don't take non-verbal hints...and for them, one must be verbal.

It's best and polite to start out nice..."I'm sure you're a nice guy for the right girl, but I'm not available." (No reason to explain why you're not available. A ring at this point isn't a bad thing, it's only tradition for the ring on the left finger to be a "wedding ring", there is no law about it.)

If that doesn't work (and truly, it usually does), a more stern, "No. Thank you." Then walk away.

That should do it for 99.9% of the guys out there.

For the .01 that still might not get the message, pull out your phone and say, "Now this is becoming harassment, shall I call the cops or my lawyer?"
And, at that point, get yourself physically out of the situation. If someone like this is someone who will cross your path on a regular basis, get some back up, a friend, co-worker, friendly neighborhood Spiderman, preferably male to watch your back for a bit...be careful. If it's in a setting like a bar or restaurant, ask for a worker there to walk you to your car.

But, as I said, usually the first, polite verbal rebuff does the trick. In all the years I was single, and if I start the count at 18, we're talking 20 years, I only was in the .01 situation once. My guy friend Ron, who stood 6'7" was really cool about just being around when I knew the creep would be on hand. The "situation" died down pretty quickly. Scary while it lasted, but it didn't last long.

Also, don't discount learning some self-defense. I've never, ever been in a situation where I felt that I would have to use the self-defense that I know, but...little ole 4'11" me can take down a guy in a way that will forever eliminate any further desire on his part to press unwanted attentions on anyone. And no, it has nothing to do with kicking him in his genitalia.
 
Your ablitiy to pass and live and be accepted as a normal woman isn't a matter of simple vanity...
firstly it allows you to release yourself from the day-to-day emotional baggage of begin so radically different from your peers and overcome my painful past thus good for your clarity. Secondly its your best defence at living a long life in a world largely unsympathetic to you.

As I mentioned myself in my own story I became a target and was subject to discrimination and hatred only upon my christian landlord forcing me to reveal my past before that everything was fine. In other stories following Jasons advice leads to the following.
List of unlawfully killed transgender people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

July 2010
Dana A. “Chanel†Larkin, a 26-year-old transgender woman, was shot in the head in Milwaukee, Wisconsin upon revealing her transgender status to a man she had just met. Her murderer was caught and has pled guilty to second degree reckless homicide Unfortunately, coverage on Dana’s death used many incorrect stereotypes and terminology about transgender people, and advocated the problematic ‘transgender panic’ defense, while blaming Dana for her own murder.

It's unwise and reckless...
And I am aware that as jason says that men exsists whom are aroused by such exotic anatomy but most often they have unrealistic and incorrect fantasies about what such fusions are actually like. A relationship with somone is likley to lead to a conflict of intrest (I want the abberation gone, they only want me for my abberation)

Random, but I was born female and still haven't been approved to the female forum.
Click to expand...
I was approved then revoked upon someones complaint, I have no doubt I would not have been rejected had I posed as a cisexual christian female, But I'm not here to test my ablities at subterfuge, it's to observe your treatment and placement within your community of someone like me.

I don't get cat calls as such, What I'm discribing are events like
an unkempt man in his late 50's approaches me while i'm waiting for my bus, He engages me in small talk I respond in a friendly way, He then proceeds to stand behind me stare at me in a manic way and "manipulates himself" (1month ago)

a man in his 30's pulls upto me in a car and says "I love you I want you" five times then offers me a lift home. (2 days ago)

A young man age 19 asks me for the time and engages me in small talk I respond in a friendly manner he becomes flirty and starts talking about my feet and ankles, it becomes obvious he has a foot fetish and won't stop talking about how erotic my small feet and hands are to him suggesting I should walk home barefoot. (4 days ago)

Now not all are like this twice I've had reasonable human begins approach me after talking to them in a friendly manner we both flirt(don't realize i'm doing it) I usually find myself loosing myself in the moment it's only when he moves to hug/kiss me I remeber why I can't go through with this and freak out and run away. The man feeling dejected cursing women as twisted fickle and unreadable.

Rather than be cruel I'd prefer to not attract anyone. hmm unfortunate there isn't some sort of simple cue I can give to dissuade attention from me :/ (apart from spraying myself in sewage)
 
If you look like an antelope and swim with crocodiles what do you expect,go back to being a crocodile and they will ignor you...better yet,turn completely to God and ask Jesus to be your Saviour and be willing to do whatever God tells you to do. You seem to be in the bottom of the pit, so UP is the way to go. Forget about changing the world,not even God can do that,change yourself.
 
Pebbles, your encounter with the pervert is unsettling, but not all that unusual. When I worked in an ice cream parlor, a pervert came in, ordered something, sat down, insisted that I take his order to him, and when I did, he grabbed my hand and licked it...EWWWW...He then proceeded to masturbate himself until the owner of the restaurant threw him out and called the police. Unfortunately, living with the disturbed people of the world is unavoidable. Fortunately, there aren't that many like that in our day to day lives.

Boors like the guy in the car are also unavoidable, and there are more of them that perverts. Incidents like the guy in the car will probably happen a lot more often. I don't know why some men think that women would like being approached in this way or be impressed by it, but they do. Ignoring them is really the only thing to do. Usually they are out to get a reaction, and it's usually a negative reaction that they want. After a minute or so (a long time while this is happening) of not getting a reaction, they move on.

Guys like the last guy, how did you handle it? As soon as it became clear that the encounter was more about his fetish than simple human interaction, I would have walked away. One thing that might help you is to think about it in terms of someone pressing upon you what that person wants...an aggressive salesperson who won't just let you shop in peace, a religious person on your doorstep with tracts and an intent to convert you, a co-worker who thinks the entire office wants to hear every detail of her recent bout with diarrhea...these kinds of social hijackers are fairly common and the best way to handle them is to just walk away or say flatly, "Not interested." Most of us are constrained by not wanting to be rude, but you have to keep in mind that they are the rude one by trying to force something on you that you haven't asked for and don't want.

Unless one learns how to become invisible, one just needs to realize that these kinds of encounters are a part of life. Fortunately, most people aren't like this and most day to day encounters with others of our species are pretty pleasant.
 
Sam21 said:
If you look like an antelope and swim with crocodiles what do you expect,go back to being a crocodile and they will ignor you...better yet,turn completely to God and ask Jesus to be your Saviour and be willing to do whatever God tells you to do. You seem to be in the bottom of the pit, so UP is the way to go. Forget about changing the world,not even God can do that,change yourself.
Click to expand...
Your religious zeal and tenacity is impressive even if your empathy and comprehention for others situations is lacking. Explaining is probably useless but meh...

I'm not in a pit anymore untreated gender dysphora was a hellpit that tore me apart body and 'soul' to the point I tried to kill myself twice.
While escape from that place (Ie gender transition) isn't a plesant route to say the least, It's the only one that exsisted for me. I did cry out to deities no help came.

---

Yes Handy several of my female friends can tell me of similar stories to those you've discribed, I can take some solace in knowing it's not because I'm different I'm having these encounters :/

I got the foot fetish man to leave me alone by agreeing that I would take my shoes off walk around him slowly 4 times barefooted then I will walk off home if he tries to follow me I will scream and call the police he agreed. I figured dirty feet was a better option than having him follow me home and learning where I lived.

Ahh thanks anyway, it's unfortunate there isn't any easy solution... *sigh*
 
Pebbles said:
Your ablitiy to pass and live and be accepted as a normal woman isn't a matter of simple vanity...
firstly it allows you to release yourself from the day-to-day emotional baggage of begin so radically different from your peers and overcome my painful past thus good for your clarity. Secondly its your best defence at living a long life in a world largely unsympathetic to you.

As I mentioned myself in my own story I became a target and was subject to discrimination and hatred only upon my christian landlord forcing me to reveal my past before that everything was fine. In other stories following Jasons advice leads to the following.
List of unlawfully killed transgender people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

July 2010
Dana A. “Chanel†Larkin, a 26-year-old transgender woman, was shot in the head in Milwaukee, Wisconsin upon revealing her transgender status to a man she had just met. Her murderer was caught and has pled guilty to second degree reckless homicide Unfortunately, coverage on Dana’s death used many incorrect stereotypes and terminology about transgender people, and advocated the problematic ‘transgender panic’ defense, while blaming Dana for her own murder.

It's unwise and reckless...
And I am aware that as jason says that men exsists whom are aroused by such exotic anatomy but most often they have unrealistic and incorrect fantasies about what such fusions are actually like. A relationship with somone is likley to lead to a conflict of intrest (I want the abberation gone, they only want me for my abberation)

I was approved then revoked upon someones complaint, I have no doubt I would not have been rejected had I posed as a cisexual christian female, But I'm not here to test my ablities at subterfuge, it's to observe your treatment and placement within your community of someone like me.

I don't get cat calls as such, What I'm discribing are events like
an unkempt man in his late 50's approaches me while i'm waiting for my bus, He engages me in small talk I respond in a friendly way, He then proceeds to stand behind me stare at me in a manic way and "manipulates himself" (1month ago)

a man in his 30's pulls upto me in a car and says "I love you I want you" five times then offers me a lift home. (2 days ago)

A young man age 19 asks me for the time and engages me in small talk I respond in a friendly manner he becomes flirty and starts talking about my feet and ankles, it becomes obvious he has a foot fetish and won't stop talking about how erotic my small feet and hands are to him suggesting I should walk home barefoot. (4 days ago)

Now not all are like this twice I've had reasonable human begins approach me after talking to them in a friendly manner we both flirt(don't realize i'm doing it) I usually find myself loosing myself in the moment it's only when he moves to hug/kiss me I remeber why I can't go through with this and freak out and run away. The man feeling dejected cursing women as twisted fickle and unreadable.

Rather than be cruel I'd prefer to not attract anyone. hmm unfortunate there isn't some sort of simple cue I can give to dissuade attention from me :/ (apart from spraying myself in sewage)
Click to expand...

you got to be projecting something. i say this as i always atract women with psychosis. my wife has bp.and i have dated women that some mental issue. its me.
 
:chin A question of boundaries indeed.

What has happened here? Might I not be allowed some room for revulsion?

I would agree with the sentiment that Pebbles suggested in the introductory thought, "This probably isn't an appropriate place to post this," because I don't know where an "appropriate" place to post it is, or that it even exists. If there is no appropriate place for the activity, can there be any appropriate place for discussion about how one might adapt or cope with the activity? I really wish that the predatory nature just wasn't there. When we add various perversions it just gets worse.

I would agree with TheLords who said, "Stay away from the opposite sex until love is stirred." That's simple enough for me to understand. Better (to my way of thinking) would be if I had the wisdom to stay away from sexual immorality altogether. That way I'd be able to scratch my head and conclude the matter instead of trying to remark about innocence shattered.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sparrow nobody that has posted in the forum is more 'repulsed"then me.i have dated someone like peebles in many ways.no offense to her.

but i believe she is seeking advise to be physically safe.if she came to me and i ran a dojo i would show her what to do to protect herself in danger. this has nothing to do with approving sin but rather how to avoid creeps and unwanted attention.one cant assume that all men that are sinners are always going to be players by the rules of christ. sure it would help if she did repent, but what if this is your child? would you not say the same?

even with heteromen and heterowomen creeps do appear.
 
jasoncran said:
sparrow nobody that has posted in the forum is more 'repulsed"then me.i have dated someone like peebles in many ways.no offense to her.

but i believe she is seeking advise to be physically safe.if she came to me and i ran a dojo i would show her what to do to protect herself in danger. this has nothing to do with approving sin but rather how to avoid creeps and unwanted attention.one cant assume that all men that are sinners are always going to be players by the rules of christ. sure it would help if she did repent, but what if this is your child? would you not say the same?

even with heteromen and heterowomen creeps do appear.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I believe it has everything to do with approving sin. When we look the other way while people are being hurt we are tacitly approving the behaviors. To me, the natural boundary (revulsion to sin) has been eroded.

I do agree with what you were trying to say about "if I ran a dojo, I would show her what to do to protect herself," but my reaction is a little more personal than that. One time I was a cashier working in my dad's grocery store. A guy came in and was verbally abusive to a fellow cashier and made remarks in my hearing that shouldn't be repeated. They were lewd and I became visible upset just to see it. In point of fact, I had to use restraint while I stepped into the situation. I still feel the urge to strangle that guy.
 
Sparrowhawke said:
On the contrary, I believe it has everything to do with approving sin. When we look the other way while people are being hurt we are tacitly approving the behaviors. To me, the natural boundary (revulsion to sin) has been eroded.

Why is it that when I try to respond as I would before my innocence was shattered by my own sin I am a prude? I do agree with what you were trying to say about "if I ran a dojo, I would show her what to do to protect herself," but my reaction is a little more personal than that.

One time I was a cashier working in my dad's grocery store. A guy came in and was verbally abusive to a fellow cashier and made remarks in my hearing. They were lewd and I became visible upset. In point of fact, I had to use restraint while I stepped into the situation. I still feel the urge to strangle that guy.
Click to expand...

so when a hetero female sinner asks the same question here will be consistent and say not gonna help. Do you see the bias?

we are in now way stating approval of the sin here? i dont. she came here and was open and saying i am a transgender and do want unwanted male attention,yes it puts us in a wierd situation as i didnt want to respond but since i have in a sense been on the opposite end of this i do know how some men act.
pebbles simply doesnt want to date that she has made clear.she isnt interested in a companion and wants a means to say politely not interested and if need be loudly BUG OFF! verbal authority does work at times.
 
The "Question of Boundaries" is larger to me than what was suggested by the OP. If we neglect to come to the aid of those who suffer we violate the duty of every reasonable and prudent man. Jason, I don't think you are hearing me. Probably because I'm not making myself clear. Gender has nothing to do with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top