whirlwind said:
I'm with you, especially the Isaiah 8 mention, but question the vials being poured "between trumpets." How do you see that?
Maybe not all the vials, but certain ones, like the 6th and 7th vials...
Rev 16:12-15
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
That 6th vial is in prep for battle. The gathering to Christ hasn't happened yet at that point.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
So the 6th vial is in association with the 6th trumpet timing (Rev.9), the 7th trumpet and vial not yet.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
(KJV)
Then a warning of Christ's coming and the pouring out of His wrath upon the wicked is next, i.e., the 7th trumpet and 7th vial. This reveals the saints are still alive on earth when those 6th and 7th vials are poured out upon Christ's enemies. The first vial does specifically show it's a timing either during or after the mark and worship of the image of beast.
Dear Veteran.....
I'm not certain about the vials being poured between trumpets and need to spend more time looking at that. I have to tell you...you are one of the very few that see 1 Corinthians as you do. I see everyone being changed into a spiritual body too but it is always met with such resistance. Many believe flesh people are still populating the earth.
It is a pleasure to read your posts. Even if we don't agree on everything...we agree on a great deal and I admire your scholarship, as well as your spiritual eyes. I learn from you as I do from Ret. Thank you both.
No problem. But do try to check out the events of the vials in relation to the trumpet events. There's a parallel.
Many are not taught to look up those four KJV words of 1 Cor.15:53 in the Greek. I didn't realize it either until I was led to it. What our Lord Jesus said in John 5 about two TYPES of resurrection conditions occurring at the same time of His coming also agrees with what Paul was teaching there in 1 Cor.15 about all being changed at Christ's coming, the unjust included. In Acts 24:15 Paul said it was his hope there would be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. Paul didn't mean that resurrection for the wicked being just so they could be raised at the end of the thousand years to be thrown into the lake of fire. I believe his hope for their being resurrected too was that at least some of them might be saved.
Notice in Rev.20:12 that the "dead" stand in judgment before God after the thousand years. Don't you think there's a reason why they are still called "dead" while standing before God?
I think many have a difficult time thinking about the difference between the earthly and the heavenly as two dimensions. Honestly, I've never had that difficulty. It's always been easy for me to fathom the existence of the heavenly in contrast to this earthly dimension. Yet thinking about the heavenly dimension scares a lot of people, when it really shouldn't.
This is why I see a connection with what our Lord Jesus and His Apostles taught about being born of water and of The Spirit as a requirement to Christ's Salvation, and in relation to the "new creature" idea, the "sons of God" idea, our Lord's declaration that in the resurrection they are as the angels of God in Heaven, etc. Some tend to think of those ideas in the 'religious' sense only, not fully understanding how those ideas involve a real literal change to our soul's condition inside our bodies.
When our Lord compared the blind scribes and Pharisees to whited sepulchres that appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones, He was revealing the idea of their soul inside being spiritually 'dead'. That idea is in direct relation to the resurrection of the unjust, their soul condition will still be in a spiritually dead condition after Christ's coming (Greek thnetos in 1 Cor.15:53, liable to die), while their flesh will have put on a body of incorruption. Rev.3:9 reveals the resurrected unjust will come to worship Christ at the feet of His elect. So that definitely means the wicked will be raised too in order to bow to Christ Jesus during His thousand years reign.