A terrific TRINITY Scripture passage

[John Zain]

John 14:

16 And I will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever—

17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him
nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

23 … and We (God) will come to him and make Our home with him.

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The Greek word here for â€another†is â€allos†meaning â€another of the same kindâ€.

A Question for you: Does the “We (God)†refer to …
2 Persons: Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or 3 Persons: all of the Trinity?

 

[Webb]

I prefer not to use the word "Trinity" in a religious discussion, as the word is not found in scripture. I prefer to call Bible things by Bible names if possible, which, I believe makes for a clearer understanding. The idea of the "Trinity" is clearly found in the scripture as anyone who can count to three can find.

John 14, was spoken by Jesus in the very shadow of the cross. He was speaking to His apostles. No indication of others being present. He had been with His apostles teaching them for some three years, soon He would leave them and return to the Father. Being human as we, how could they possibly remember ALL he taught them and do so accurately ? They could NOT! Thus the promise of the "Comforter", the "Helper" to guide them into All truth. All Three, Jesus, the Father and the Spirit are in the context.

 

[Jake]

John 14:

16 And I will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever—

17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him
nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

23 … and We (God) will come to him and make Our home with him.

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The Greek word here for â€another†is â€allos†meaning â€another of the same kindâ€.

A Question for you: Does the “We (God)†refer to …
2 Persons: Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or 3 Persons: all of the Trinity?

At least this thread is as clear as day ;)
of course, 3!

 

[Eventide]

The idea of the "Trinity" is clearly found in the scripture as anyone who can count to three can find.

Exactly..

There are three types of people in the world.. those that can count and those that can't..

 

[Eventide]

Here's a cool one from Genesis 18..

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant

 

[Jake]

Exactly..

There are three types of people in the world.. those that can count and those that can't..

 

[John Zain]

Here's a cool one from Genesis 18..
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant

Yup, it's cool, but not real hot.
In the rest of 18, "the LORD" does all of the talking,
so people have always assumed He was with 2 angels.

 

[Eventide]

Yup, it's cool, but not real hot.
In the rest of 18, "the LORD" does all of the talking,
so people have always assumed He was with 2 angels.

Yes, this isn't one I'd be dogmatic about or anything like that..

I think that the obvious truth of the Triune Godhead is known to those who possess it within their earthen vessel.. ie, the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit living within the believer.

 

[Elijah674]

At least this thread is as clear as day ;)
of course, 3!

To be as one of us surely finds these 'two plural ones' with Immortality. Only God has Immortality! 1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:15-16. (in Eternity)

And with an Image that Adam was made in the likeness of. He was even given Eve so as together they could create. (procreate) I like the verses where God talked to Moses on the Mount! (Exod. 33:20) We find that He had a FACE + My hand + Back parts!

So as 'i' see it both Christ God & Jehovah God have this Image when they want it. And the Holy Spirit/God was limited in earth after Adam lost his domain to satan. (verse 26 of Gen. 1 + Matt. 4:9)

And we are told that God IS A SPIRIT elsewhere. Holy One + Holy Ghost. It is interesting that Christ has told us that He will not testify of Himself, but UPLIFT ME! (Christ) And this God that has no image. And satan has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit in fullness & desires the creation of God to do so as well. See Gen. 6:3

So 2 of the Godhead have an image & one of the Godhead does not. What is not clear in just these verses?

 

[John Zain]

I think that the obvious truth of the Triune Godhead is known to those who possess it
within their earthen vessel.. ie, the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit living within the believer.

Tidalwave,

I've been struggling to understand "obvious" believers who can ONLY say,
"I believe Jesus is the Son of God."
And I say to myself, "Wow, that's deep ... it's all over the NT."

If they are born again, they have at least the Holy Spirit living inside of them,
revealing spiritual Truth to them (many Scriptures say this).
God the Father and God the Son being inside of them isn't so obvious.

Now, what do you make of this verse ...
"... if you do not believe that I AM (God), you will die in your sin." John 8:24

There are 6 more similar verses ... with no "he" after "I AM" in the Greek manuscripts.
Are you aware of them?

 

[Eventide]

Tidalwave,

I've been struggling to understand "obvious" believers who can ONLY say,
"I believe Jesus is the Son of God."
And I say to myself, "Wow, that's deep ... it's all over the NT."

Yes, so if this is known through the scriptures (that Jesus is the Son of God), then why would the scriptures which show us that He is God manifest in the flesh be ignored ? Is that what you mean ?

If they are born again, they have at least the Holy Spirit living inside of them,
revealing spiritual Truth to them (many Scriptures say this).
God the Father and God the Son being inside of them isn't so obvious.

Why, the same word which teaches that the Spirit is in us teaches us that the Father is in us, and that Christ is in us.

Now, what do you make of this verse ...
"... if you do not believe that I AM (God), you will die in your sin." John 8:24

There are 6 more similar verses ... with no "he" after "I AM" in the Greek manuscripts.
Are you aware of them?

I've never counted them so to speak.. although what I see in the word is overwhelming evidence that He is the great I AM.. and the SPIRIT testifies of Christ.. and I have never once been convited that Jesus is NOT God.

 

[John Zain]

Yes, so if this is known through the scriptures (that Jesus is the Son of God), then why would the
scriptures which show us that He is God manifest in the flesh be ignored ? Is that what you mean ?
Sure it is. Is Satan's voice louder and more persistent that the Lord's "still small voice"?
And I'll answer it for you, "Yes".
P.S. I've also heard the Lord in a medium-loud voice, and in a LOUD voice.
And the angelic choir also ... maybe in between these two!

Why, the same word which teaches that the Spirit is in us
teaches us that the Father is in us, and that Christ is in us.
Sure, so give us 10 verses or so that teach this.

I've never counted them so to speak.. although what I see in the word is overwhelming evidence
that He is the great I AM.. and the SPIRIT testifies of Christ.. and I have never once been convited
that Jesus is NOT God.
How about speaking to John 8:24, which I gave to you?

Pleasure talking with thou.

 

[Webb]

Was the question raised about whether the Father in is us as well as Christ and the Holy Spirit? If so, how about Jn.14:10. If agreed that Christ dwells in the Christian we have here the Father Who is in Jesus, Who is in us! Then, vs. 23 which is more definite. The Holy Spirit dwells, I Cor.6:19 etc. Thus all Three.!

If all Three are God ( God from Elohim which is plural ) and I believe They are, then to deny the Diety of any of the Three puts one in the class with the atheist. Some believe Jesus is only. Unbelieving Jews reject Jesus and some do not believe the Holy Spirit is Deity. Be careful!

 

[Eventide]

YES, the OP is a good example of the Father being in us.. although I was thinking more along the lines of EPH 4..

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The scriptures are also clear that Christ is in us, and that the Holy Spirit is in us..

 

[Webb]

Yes, Eph. 4 is great on that and many other subjects. For example it also reads "one body". Eph. 1:22,23 reads that the church is the "body". If the "body" is the "church" and the "church" is the "body" and there is but "one body" does it not follow through there is but "one" "church"?

 

[Eventide]

Yes, Eph. 4 is great on that and many other subjects. For example it also reads "one body". Eph. 1:22,23 reads that the church is the "body". If the "body" is the "church" and the "church" is the "body" and there is but "one body" does it not follow through there is but "one" "church"?

Absolutely !

It's Christ's church, His future bride to be.. when He presents it to Himself as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing..

 

[teddy trueblood]

John 14:







16 And I will pray (to) the Father, and He will
give you another
Helper

,
that He may abide with you
forever—


17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him

nor knows Him;
but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in
you.

The actual Greek of the NT text reads “which†instead of “whom.†compare NAB. And the “Himâ€s are actually “itâ€s (Also NAB).

18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

23 … and
We
(God)

will come to him and make Our home with
him.

Doesn’t say “God†but instead “me†and “the Father.†Yes, they will be ‘with him.’

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,

He will teach you all things, and bring to your
remembrance all things that I said to you.

“Whom†is actually “which†(o) in the NT Greek. “He†is actually “that one†(ekeinos)

The

Greek word here for â€another†is â€allos†meaning â€another of the same kindâ€.

The “same kind†here is for the meaning of “helper†(paraclete) not for the constitution of any particular helper.

“Allos - …. The word can also mean different in kind (e.g., Matt 2:12; Mark 14:57f.; John 10:16; 1 Cor 15:39-41, etc.†- pp. 63, 64, Vol. 1, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament.

A Question for you: Does the “We (God)†refer to

…

2 Persons: Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or 3 Persons:
all of the Trinity?

[/FON

As the context clearly states, it is “me†(Jesus) and “the Father†who will be with him.

 

[Former Christian]

The biggest problem I have with the idea of a Trinitarian God is not in the many Biblical verses interpreted to prove the idea. Many of which have nothing to do with the essence or nature of God at all. It’s seen in this:

“Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing. Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.†(Psalm 100 KJV)

Note the pronouns: “HIS presenceâ€, “the Lord (Jehovah) HE is Godâ€, “it is HE that made usâ€, “we are HIS peopleâ€, “the sheep of HIS pastureâ€, “enter into HIS gatesâ€, “into HIS courtsâ€, “be thankful unto HIMâ€, “bless HIS nameâ€, “HIS mercyâ€, “HIS truthâ€.

This agrees more with the idea of God in Judaism, Islam, Christian Modalists, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. That God is a person. Yet the Trinitarian God is composed of three persons. A person with three persons. Can someone explain this to me? On the surface, it sounds like personality disorder. Considered a form of insanity among humans.

FC

 

[Rageprophet]

Here try this one former,

Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.". In Hebrew it is known as the Sh'ma: "Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai ekhad".

For those that know Hebrew, the words Adonai, Eloheinu, and ekhad, are all plural. A direct translation is "Hear Israel, my Lords our Gods my Lords one." This is not a matter of semantics or a play on words, for if our God were not triune the Hebrew would read "Sh'ma Israel, Adoni Elenu, Adoni yakhid".

And again, in Ex 34:6 we read in Hebrew "YHWH, YHWH, Elohim": "He is, He is, Gods". which also points to the trinity, for if it did not it would read "YHWH, YHWH, Eli".

The scriptures abound with examples such as this. All point to the existence of a Blessed and Holy Trinity and the unity of God. Think about it.

 

[Rageprophet]

Also Former to try and explain the trinity in a way our finite brains could understand it would be mostly impossible, we can only look at scripture and conclude that a Trinitarian view would best explain our God in some way that we can even somewhat grasp.

I have heard it best compared to an egg though if it helps, you have the yellow(yolk), White (albumnen), and the shell, you can seperate them individually and each part could still be considered an egg while also bringing them together maintains that they are an egg, not eggs it may not be the best example but well we are talking about a entity so powerful that by his whim he created everything that was, is, or will be to come it gives us maybe a glimpse of his Godliness however shallow the example might be.