A wife being under the husband.

[Jethro Bodine]

Because that's what it's called. :p

As to why it's called levirate marriage...it's a Latin term meaning husband's brother.

I heard the word 'leverage' in that, lol! You know, like in a 'leveraged' marriage.

Jethro, why do I get the idea you wouldn't want to be saddled with your sister-in-law!?!

Actually I was thinking about my brothers, lol!

"Just kidding, dear..."


"Yes, dear... Right away, dear..."

Gotta go...

 

[tessiewebb]

I liked the tone of this post, very reasonable and thoughtful. However I do have a few issues I'd like to address here:

Let me quickly point out that God did not curse Adam or Eve, He only said, "cursed is the Ground for your sake to Adam" .. It was only the serpent that was cursed. God said to the "Cursed are you.." ...

True and good point, but the cursing of the ground caused Adam to have to work harder in his "tilling the ground". And the woman's pain in childbirth and his rule over her were certainly punishment. Hard not to see that as cursed.

...God made us to understand that she is a help meet (many have called it help mate but it is help meet). She is to assist or help Adam ..

Yes, I agree, the word is help meet. Meet as used by Paul in saying we have been made "meet to partake with the saints..." shows us this means "fit" or "capable". So Eve was capable of helping Adam, which implies she was equally fitted for the job by God.

...Israel always asked for a leader in the old testament. Even when they wanted to return to Egypt in the wilderness they asked for a leader...

True, but it was not with God's approval. He said, "they have rejected Me".

As to "submission" and "headship" there is always an element of force of will in the way it is discussed, it seems to me. Division of labor is necessary in a family. Someone has to support the family, someone has to clean, take care of children, keep up with needed supplies, handle the money, etc. So why the "you must" issue?

Division of labor is sensible, it seems to me, but mankind's traditions and doctrines have muddied the simplicity of it. After all, if a women is better at taking care of bills, why not? If she works and he takes care of home needs, what of it? Doesn't mean she doesn't love her children and husband.

Why does it have to be "I make the money, you do as I say" issue from either one? It is all simply necessary work to keep the family strong and fed. If the man likes things orderly and the woman would rather do the shopping, why should he not "man" the broom? Or if the wife is more mechanically capable, why should she not take care of the vehicles or repairs around the house?

Really, just think about it: Who mandated that any of these chores are "woman's work" and others "man's"?

Before anyone jumps on this: I do realize NT says women are to be "keepers at home". Might I point out that the "virtuous woman" of Proverbs 31 had "fields"? Fields are outdoors in my area. Also that 'virtuous woman" obviously brought income into the home.

The writer of the "keepers at home" thing was talking about idle women roaming around from house to house as "busybodies". Yeah, far better to stay in the house than to go around gossiping. Full agreement there. Still doesn't mean she's not to venture out of the house or risk being out of the will of God, for goodness sake!

 

[Classik]

Beautiful!

Really, just think about it: Who mandated that any of these chores are "woman's work" and others "man's"?

Well. I think this started from the OT. I would say some tasks are feminine while some are masculine and some are midway. (The fighter wife and the breastfeeding father....you see - by nature, sorta! One of my jokes)

 

[Classik]

Helper > Help Mate > Help meet. Help meet wins!


This prompts the question (not trying to start a new thread in an existing thread). If it is Help meet, and if this is truly so, why 'divorce'?

(Some people are cursed with over-inquisitiveness. Thank God I'm not one;) Or am I the King of the...)

 

[tessiewebb]

Helper > Help Mate > Help meet. Help meet wins!


This prompts the question (not trying to start a new thread in an existing thread). If it is Help meet, and if this is truly so, why 'divorce'?

(Some people are cursed with over-inquisitiveness. Thank God I'm not one;) Or am I the King of the...)

Not sure I follow your reasoning about helpmeet somehow doing away with divorce, if that is even what you intended.

I can tell you why divorce though. Selfishness of the human heart. I've been there done that got both t-shirts and I can vouch for it's being self-love on my part and theirs. I've seen it in other relationships that end in divorce. The Scripture that says what God has put together let no man take apart is ignored as are the children, the family unit, and any other good thing that God has put together. I cringe everytime I see the stats on Christians getting divorced and its rate matching the ungodly couples.

All of that said, I'm glad Scripture leaves a loophole for divorce to happen in cases of infidelity.

Marriage to an adulterer, whether it's unfaithfulness by internet or physically, is excruciating. And where there is adultery, I've seen abuse of a spouse, abuse/neglect of the children, unfaithfulness to the vows as well as in money matters and so on.

So there are times when divorce can be justified in spite of God's hatred of it. Strange but true. Doesn't mean it isn't horrible though.

 

[Classik]

Thanks for the reply. I actually left it open for anyone to attempt.

----
Someone said (in another thread): Adultery or no adultery a couple can still choose to be together - better.


And for the selfish ones (absense of adultery) they still choose to do what the flesh wants them to do. Too bad.

At times I get so worried why some people get divorced even in the absence of adultery. Did the guy marry the wrong help meet? That was my question. Thanks. Maybe this requires a new thread.

totopic

 

[Boidae21]

My wife and I have a egalitarian marriage and practice mutual submission.

We believe that neither has the right to veto the other when it comes to decisions and that if we both don't agree on a decision (talking major decisions) then it doesn't get decided on.

We both lead, allowing the other to take over when that person has the most experience in a given area.

Our marriage has worked very well this way and we are extremely blessed by God. Even going as far as claiming a miracle for us that happened this past week. My wife, who is supposed to be sterile according to doctors is pregnant. We have been trying for over two years, but my wife said it will be in His perfect timing if He wants to open up her womb and she was absolutely correct.

 

[Seeker]

My wife, who is supposed to be sterile according to doctors is pregnant. We have been trying for over two years, but my wife said it will be in His perfect timing if He wants to open up her womb and she was absolutely correct.

Congratulations, sir! I hope you have a beautiful, healthy baby blessed by God!

(You might have to reconsider your egalitarian relationship - when women become pregnant then they're definitely the boss )

 

[Boidae21]

Congratulations, sir! I hope you have a beautiful, healthy baby blessed by God!

(You might have to reconsider your egalitarian relationship - when women become pregnant then they're definitely the boss )

That's ok... she can be the boss during her pregnancy. I know that hormones are going crazy and the fact that there is a baby growing inside of her, keeping her up at night because she can't get comfortable, etc... she deserves to be teh boss full time during this time period. :yes

 

[Classik]

I'm happy for you, Boidae21. We have a great God.

Please and please...do not make mistakes. He or she or they (if they are more than one in that womb) must be a soccer fan for FC Barcelona.;);)

 

[Classik]

(You might have to reconsider your egalitarian relationship - when women become pregnant then they're definitely the boss )

Yeah! Get ready, man.

 

[tessiewebb]

My wife and I have a egalitarian marriage and practice mutual submission.

We believe that neither has the right to veto the other when it comes to decisions and that if we both don't agree on a decision (talking major decisions) then it doesn't get decided on.

We both lead, allowing the other to take over when that person has the most experience in a given area.

Our marriage has worked very well this way and we are extremely blessed by God. Even going as far as claiming a miracle for us that happened this past week. My wife, who is supposed to be sterile according to doctors is pregnant. We have been trying for over two years, but my wife said it will be in His perfect timing if He wants to open up her womb and she was absolutely correct.

AWESOME! Thank you for giving such an example of a GODLY union! And congratulations to Him for giving you what you wanted and waited for!