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Abiding in Christ

Jake

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What does the following scripture mean? what does bearing fruit look like in our daily lives and if we don't bear any, are we really cut off? and what does cutting off refer to?
thanks.


John 15


1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatsoever ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and so shall ye be my disciples.
9 Even as the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you: abide ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you.
15 No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you.
16 Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye may love one another.
18 If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, A servant is not greater than his lord. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me: 27 and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
 
One who is born from God has passed from death to life. BUT, he must present his members to God as a holy sacrifice in order to honour God.

We must keep our garments unsoiled. We must build with materials that are tried in the fire.

So a Christian will be judged as a vessel either of honour or dishonour! One who does not bear the fruit of the new nature he has been given will be cut off from Israel, and cast into outer darkness. There he will bear an everlasting reproach which is the lot of a wicked servant.

Seem harsh!???

Notice the goodness and severity of God. So we fear, and we present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice to be indwelt of His Spirit. This is our acceptable offering. Our lives!

Our God is easy to please...but hard to satisfy! So we walk in the fear of God AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit. :)
 
One who is born from God has passed from death to life. BUT, he must present his members to God as a holy sacrifice in order to honour God.

We must keep our garments unsoiled. We must build with materials that are tried in the fire.

So a Christian will be judged as a vessel either of honour or dishonour! One who does not bear the fruit of the new nature he has been given will be cut off from Israel, and cast into outer darkness. There he will bear an everlasting reproach which is the lot of a wicked servant.

Seem harsh!???

Notice the goodness and severity of God. So we fear, and we present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice to be indwelt of His Spirit. This is our acceptable offering. Our lives!

Our God is easy to please...but hard to satisfy! So we walk in the fear of God AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit. :)

What about becoming one with one another as in the Body of Christ, how do we do that? If we all believe something different or maybe not even see we are supposed to be One in Christ, how do we get there?

It might seem harsh, but maybe that is the reason people don't believe they can lose their salvation by being cut off, it's easier on the flesh, maybe?

When you say God is hard to satisfy, do you only mean perseverance on our part or is there more?
 
What about becoming one with one another as in the Body of Christ, how do we do that? If we all believe something different or maybe not even see we are supposed to be One in Christ, how do we get there?

It might seem harsh, but maybe that is the reason people don't believe they can lose their salvation by being cut off, it's easier on the flesh, maybe?

When you say God is hard to satisfy, do you only mean perseverance on our part or is there more?


Having begun in the Spirit, we are meant to move on into maturity by the Spirit. God has given gifts to men so that when we come together then we are all edified. We can't do this on our own. We need each other to not only have the kingdom in us but also AMONG us. This is our witness to the world. This brings honour to God.

This is the great apostasy in history. We (many) receive a God of goodness but reject a God of severity. Yet His very severity is there to save us!!! We reject that because well...it is too severe for us!

We are doing the choosing of this...not God. Those who do this are of Laodicea...which means "the people say" or "the people's opinions"

So we are now led by popular beliefs! Or, at least....many of of us are!

But whom God loves He chastens and whips! Yes whips!!!! Scourges! OUCH!

And this to our eternal benefit.

But modern believers have a great difficulty with this, since love is seen as a soft motherly thing. We have forgotten the Father!

So the apostasy is from the Father!

How do satisfy the Father? By abiding in the Son. If we continue to abide in Christ we will be trained very hard! But this is to an eternal weight in glory!:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Having begun in the Spirit, we are meant to move on into maturity by the Spirit. God has given gifts to men so that when we come together then we are all edified. We can't do this on our own. We need each other to not only have the kingdom in us but also AMONG us. This is our witness to the world. This brings honour to God.

This is the great apostasy in history. We (many) receive a God of goodness but reject a God of severity. Yet His very severity is there to save us!!! We reject that because well...it is too severe for us!

We are doing the choosing of this...not God. Those who do this are of Laodicea...which means "the people say" or "the people's opinions"

So we are now led by popular beliefs! Or, at least....many of of us are!

But whom God loves He chastens and whips! Yes whips!!!! Scourges! OUCH!

And this to our eternal benefit.

But modern believers have a great difficulty with this, since love is seen as a soft motherly thing. We have forgotten the Father!

So the apostasy is from the Father!

How do satisfy the Father? By abiding in the Son. If we continue to abide in Christ we will be trained very hard! But this is to an eternal weight in glory!:)
so the only thing that would satisfy God is the standard of Christ as we are conforming to Him, from glory to glory, then He will be satisifed.

I always wondered about the discipline, it seems some people have it easy and nothing ever happens to them, yet there are others that everything happens to.lol

Laodicea doesn't mean "lukewarm"?
 
There was a period of time, it is still going on, where the Body has come together to do a huge project, which is great, we all have our different gifts and have went forward and are working together.

Yet, I still see where the Body is lacking, especially comparing now to the NT church, we are not truly the Body working together. Why? What has happened?

Someone told me that back then it was because it was communal, yes it was and is it not supposed to be like that now?

How do we all get to be One, is it possible now?
 
so the only thing that would satisfy God is the standard of Christ as we are conforming to Him, from glory to glory, then He will be satisifed.

I always wondered about the discipline, it seems some people have it easy and nothing ever happens to them, yet there are others that everything happens to.lol

Laodicea doesn't mean "lukewarm"?


Actually Laodicea was known in those times to have bad water. So Jesus is calling this fact to their attention...but according to the Spirit.

Check out the Greek...

Here is something I found!

The name Laodicea is etymologically derived from two Greek words, laos meaning "people," and dike meaning "to judge" or "to decide." This name became particularly appropriate for the citizens of Laodicea, since they seem to have been quite interested in self-determination and self-rule and deciding for themselves. The city was located on a plateau about 100 feet above the Lycus River valley. The Romans developed Laodicea into a major trade center, the hub of three major trade routes. Laodicea was part of a tri-city area ( Col. 4:13) that included Hierapolis, six miles to the north, and Colossae, eleven miles to the east. Ephesus was about 100 miles to the west of Laodicea.
Being an important trade center, many in Laodicea became quite wealthy. Laodicea became the banking center of the region. The citizens were apparently so affluent and the city coffers so well-invested that when a major earthquake damaged the city in 60 A.D., they declined "imperial disaster aid." The historian Tacitus noted that they "recovered by their own resources."
One drawback to this well-settled city was the lack of a natural water supply. There were hot-springs in Hierapolis, six miles up the river valley, but by the time the water flowed down to Laodicea it was tepid and so full of minerals that it was distasteful. Jesus may have been alluding to this fact in the comments He makes to the church at Laodicea.
 
There was a period of time, it is still going on, where the Body has come together to do a huge project, which is great, we all have our different gifts and have went forward and are working together.

Yet, I still see where the Body is lacking, especially comparing now to the NT church, we are not truly the Body working together. Why? What has happened?

Someone told me that back then it was because it was communal, yes it was and is it not supposed to be like that now?

How do we all get to be One, is it possible now?
I believe the church will become one again before the end. In the meantime we are getting trained and weaned of ourselves and onto Christ!!! :)

Maran atha!
 
Actually Laodicea was known in those times to have bad water. So Jesus is calling this fact to their attention...but according to the Spirit.

Check out the Greek...

Here is something I found!

The name Laodicea is etymologically derived from two Greek words, laos meaning "people," and dike meaning "to judge" or "to decide." This name became particularly appropriate for the citizens of Laodicea, since they seem to have been quite interested in self-determination and self-rule and deciding for themselves. The city was located on a plateau about 100 feet above the Lycus River valley. The Romans developed Laodicea into a major trade center, the hub of three major trade routes. Laodicea was part of a tri-city area ( Col. 4:13) that included Hierapolis, six miles to the north, and Colossae, eleven miles to the east. Ephesus was about 100 miles to the west of Laodicea.
Being an important trade center, many in Laodicea became quite wealthy. Laodicea became the banking center of the region. The citizens were apparently so affluent and the city coffers so well-invested that when a major earthquake damaged the city in 60 A.D., they declined "imperial disaster aid." The historian Tacitus noted that they "recovered by their own resources."
One drawback to this well-settled city was the lack of a natural water supply. There were hot-springs in Hierapolis, six miles up the river valley, but by the time the water flowed down to Laodicea it was tepid and so full of minerals that it was distasteful. Jesus may have been alluding to this fact in the comments He makes to the church at Laodicea.
cool! thanks!
 
I believe the church will become one again before the end. In the meantime we are getting trained and weaned of ourselves and onto Christ!!! :)

Maran atha!

Can't wait! :)
 
Having begun in the Spirit, we are meant to move on into maturity by the Spirit. God has given gifts to men so that when we come together then we are all edified. We can't do this on our own. We need each other to not only have the kingdom in us but also AMONG us. This is our witness to the world. This brings honour to God.

This is the great apostasy in history. We (many) receive a God of goodness but reject a God of severity. Yet His very severity is there to save us!!! We reject that because well...it is too severe for us!

We are doing the choosing of this...not God. Those who do this are of Laodicea...which means "the people say" or "the people's opinions"

So we are now led by popular beliefs! Or, at least....many of of us are!

But whom God loves He chastens and whips! Yes whips!!!! Scourges! OUCH!

And this to our eternal benefit.

But modern believers have a great difficulty with this, since love is seen as a soft motherly thing. We have forgotten the Father!

So the apostasy is from the Father!

How do satisfy the Father? By abiding in the Son. If we continue to abide in Christ we will be trained very hard! But this is to an eternal weight in glory!:)
I don't think we would have been taught in the NT, all the things about running the race, abiding in Him, etc if there wasn't a reall possibility that we would give up.

It's like we are going upstream in the midst of the world, we go against the current and staying on the course and not drifting to the sides, is not always easy.

I am reminded of the book "Pilgrim's Progress" as he was walking along the trail, but below was an abyss, indicating we could fall and be lost forever.

peace.
 
There was a period of time, it is still going on, where the Body has come together to do a huge project, which is great, we all have our different gifts and have went forward and are working together.

Yet, I still see where the Body is lacking, especially comparing now to the NT church, we are not truly the Body working together. Why? What has happened?

Someone told me that back then it was because it was communal, yes it was and is it not supposed to be like that now?

How do we all get to be One, is it possible now?

There will be only a 'REMNANT' Rock. Just two groups, large & small. Matt. 6:24 has one small Remnant in Unity with Christ & the rest are satan's Babylon, yet, they still are UNITED.. in satan.

--Elijah
 
There will be only a 'REMNANT' Rock. Just two groups, large & small. Matt. 6:24 has one small Remnant in Unity with Christ & the rest are satan's Babylon, yet, they still are UNITED.. in satan.

--Elijah
Look it there, Elijah, some more common ground. :thumbsup
 
One who is born from God has passed from death to life. BUT, he must present his members to God as a holy sacrifice in order to honour God.

We must keep our garments unsoiled. We must build with materials that are tried in the fire.

So a Christian will be judged as a vessel either of honour or dishonour! One who does not bear the fruit of the new nature he has been given will be cut off from Israel, and cast into outer darkness. There he will bear an everlasting reproach which is the lot of a wicked servant.

Seem harsh!???

Notice the goodness and severity of God. So we fear, and we present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice to be indwelt of His Spirit. This is our acceptable offering. Our lives!

Our God is easy to please...but hard to satisfy! So we walk in the fear of God AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit. :)
adullam i have another question about bearing fruit, if you don't mind another one. :)
in Mark 4, the parable of the seed, where it talks about 30, 60 and 100. what exactly does that mean? is it that all people will not bear fruit 100%? and if they don't, then what happens to the 30 and 60?
thanks.
 
adullam i have another question about bearing fruit, if you don't mind another one. :)
in Mark 4, the parable of the seed, where it talks about 30, 60 and 100. what exactly does that mean? is it that all people will not bear fruit 100%? and if they don't, then what happens to the 30 and 60?
thanks.

Perhaps the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 will help you answer your question...

Regards
 
Perhaps the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 will help you answer your question...

Regards


Yes I agree! This parable concerns a return on investment of the grace we have been given. I believe it represents character and expansion of love in our hearts.

Although these have each born a doubling of what they have received.
(except the wicked servant who sat on his laurels)

This parable reflects that there is also a handicap of sorts. Not all men have been given the same capacity. But all is always all.:)

There are many ranks in the kingdom.... There are those who grow a little as well as others who grow a little more than they! But I believe that as long as we keep growing and die in faithfulness, there is a reward according to that fruit which we have borne for Him!


We will be as fruitful to the extent that we love the Lord.
 
Yes I agree! This parable concerns a return on investment of the grace we have been given. I believe it represents character and expansion of love in our hearts.

Although these have each born a doubling of what they have received.
(except the wicked servant who sat on his laurels)

This parable reflects that there is also a handicap of sorts. Not all men have been given the same capacity. But all is always all.:)

There are many ranks in the kingdom.... There are those who grow a little as well as others who grow a little more than they! But I believe that as long as we keep growing and die in faithfulness, there is a reward according to that fruit which we have borne for Him!


We will be as fruitful to the extent that we love the Lord.
ok, thanks to you both.
with the talents, we are responsible for what we do with them, are we responsible for the soil the Word lands on?
I ask because it seems some people are blind to some things and others can see and it also appears to not be their fault, although we don't really know their hearts.
do you know what i am saying? lol
 
with the talents, we are responsible for what we do with them, are we responsible for the soil the Word lands on?

Parables are stories with intent and when Jesus told a story, it was to change an attitude or a behavior.

With that, we need to be careful how we look at parables as we can begin to ask the wrong questions and thus, end up with the wrong answers.

But you do ask a good question, and to that the answer lies within the culture.

Why would somebody sow seeds along the path? Why would they sow seed in the thorns, and why would they sow seed on rocky soil? For us westerners it doesn't make much sense does it?

When a person went to sow seed in Palestine, they didn't do it like we do in the west. They would sow their seed, and then plow the field.

So you see, it didn't matter if they sowed it on the path, because the path was going to get plowed under. And it didn't matter if they sowed among the thistles, because they too would be plowed under. And as far as the rocky ground... it sits just inches below the good dirt and often it wasn't realized until the plow hit it...
 
Parables are stories with intent and when Jesus told a story, it was to change an attitude or a behavior.

With that, we need to be careful how we look at parables as we can begin to ask the wrong questions and thus, end up with the wrong answers.

But you do ask a good question, and to that the answer lies within the culture.

Why would somebody sow seeds along the path? Why would they sow seed in the thorns, and why would they sow seed on rocky soil? For us westerners it doesn't make much sense does it?

When a person went to sow seed in Palestine, they didn't do it like we do in the west. They would sow their seed, and then plow the field.

So you see, it didn't matter if they sowed it on the path, because the path was going to get plowed under. And it didn't matter if they sowed among the thistles, because they too would be plowed under. And as far as the rocky ground... it sits just inches below the good dirt and often it wasn't realized until the plow hit it...
I see what you are saying, but it is truth about what happens after a person receives the Word, some people only hang on to it for a little bit until something snatches it away, yet others receive it and it grows.

So who has the ultimate responsibility of the soil in which it was first received?

After pondering this and remembering something on this forum, that it is God who has the ultimate responsibility for the soil and if it will grow or not, God is the one who does the growing.

Correct?
 
Parables are stories with intent and when Jesus told a story, it was to change an attitude or a behavior.

With that, we need to be careful how we look at parables as we can begin to ask the wrong questions and thus, end up with the wrong answers.

But you do ask a good question, and to that the answer lies within the culture.

Why would somebody sow seeds along the path? Why would they sow seed in the thorns, and why would they sow seed on rocky soil? For us westerners it doesn't make much sense does it?

When a person went to sow seed in Palestine, they didn't do it like we do in the west. They would sow their seed, and then plow the field.

So you see, it didn't matter if they sowed it on the path, because the path was going to get plowed under. And it didn't matter if they sowed among the thistles, because they too would be plowed under. And as far as the rocky ground... it sits just inches below the good dirt and often it wasn't realized until the plow hit it...

Jeff,

It appears you are saying that the soil is inconsequential to the bearing of the fruit. This seems to defeat the entire point of the parable. If the "soil doesn't matter since it is all plowed under", then why does Jesus Himself differentiate between the soils, firmly telling us that the soil where it is planted DOES make a difference upon the fruit that results?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post, but that is what it sounds like you are saying, putting a Calvinist spin on the parable.

Regards
 
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