Abiding in Christ

[Adullam]

I see the soil as the heart. A heart can grow to love more and more! This is what I see as the 30, 60, 100 fold!

It is about the capacity to love!

 

[stovebolts]

Jeff,

It appears you are saying that the soil is inconsequential to the bearing of the fruit. This seems to defeat the entire point of the parable. If the "soil doesn't matter since it is all plowed under", then why does Jesus Himself differentiate between the soils, firmly telling us that the soil where it is planted DOES make a difference upon the fruit that results?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post, but that is what it sounds like you are saying, putting a Calvinist spin on the parable.

Regards

Hi Joe,
The question was asked,

with the talents, we are responsible for what we do with them, are we responsible for the soil the Word lands on?

Parables are analogies, not pictures. They are not designed to answer every question and yes, you can ask the wrong question and thus, come away with a wrong understanding, even if it's logically correct.

When Jesus spoke that parable, he was talking to individuals that understood farming and would have never asked why one would sow on the path, let alone on the rocky soil, or within the thistles.

How many times, Joe, have you sowed spiritual seed on rocky soil not realizing it was rocky soil because it laid just below the surface, until you hit it with the plow... how many times have you laid seed in thistles believing all you had to do is plow the thistles down, or how many times have you laid seed on the path where many others walk, believing it wasn't an issue because certainly, you would plow and the crop would grow?

My point was that where the seed was sown was never in question.

You see, Jesus is simply stating how the world around him responds. (Luke 8)

 

[stovebolts]

I see what you are saying, but it is truth about what happens after a person receives the Word, some people only hang on to it for a little bit until something snatches it away, yet others receive it and it grows.

So who has the ultimate responsibility of the soil in which it was first received?

After pondering this and remembering something on this forum, that it is God who has the ultimate responsibility for the soil and if it will grow or not, God is the one who does the growing.

Correct?

1 Corinthians 3:6-9 I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow-workers: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.

I believe this is why we are also to be longsuffering.

 

[stovebolts]

I see the soil as the heart. A heart can grow to love more and more! This is what I see as the 30, 60, 100 fold!

It is about the capacity to love!

Amen!

 

[Jake]

thanks for your answers, i got it - the capacity to love!

 

[Adullam]

thanks for your answers, i got it - the capacity to love!

And when we are conformed to Christ then we love others as HE loved (loves) them!

Love one another as I have loved you!

 

[Jake]

And when we are conformed to Christ then we love others as HE loved (loves) them!

Love one another as I have loved you!

all made possible with Christ in us!

bless you adullam!

 

[Adullam]

all made possible with Christ in us!

bless you adullam!

Thanks brother!

The Lord bless you as well! <><

 

[Sam21]

I see what you are saying, but it is truth about what happens after a person receives the Word, some people only hang on to it for a little bit until something snatches it away, yet others receive it and it grows.

So who has the ultimate responsibility of the soil in which it was first received?

After pondering this and remembering something on this forum, that it is God who has the ultimate responsibility for the soil and if it will grow or not, God is the one who does the growing.

Correct?

In the natural world the way sowing was done at that time some of the seed would fall where it would not really produce,so it is with the word of God. The ultimate reason of WHY one person will be "good ground" while another is"the path",and " rocky ground",and "among thorns", is something known only to God.

 

[francisdesales]

Hi Joe,
The question was asked,


Parables are analogies, not pictures. They are not designed to answer every question and yes, you can ask the wrong question and thus, come away with a wrong understanding, even if it's logically correct.

When Jesus spoke that parable, he was talking to individuals that understood farming and would have never asked why one would sow on the path, let alone on the rocky soil, or within the thistles.

Of course not, God sows everywhere, just as the farmer. The issue, I believe, is the difference of the soils. This explains why sometimes, the sowing does not produce fruit. I don't see where God restricts the sowing because the ground is rocky or has thistles (or that God refuses to grant grace to people because He knows that their faith will fall away in difficult times...)

How many times, Joe, have you sowed spiritual seed on rocky soil not realizing it was rocky soil because it laid just below the surface, until you hit it with the plow... how many times have you laid seed in thistles believing all you had to do is plow the thistles down, or how many times have you laid seed on the path where many others walk, believing it wasn't an issue because certainly, you would plow and the crop would grow?

My point was that where the seed was sown was never in question.

I think the parable is indeed explaining why the seed does not bear fruit. It is not the sower's fault, but where the seed lands. All ground receives rain, sun, etc. But the seed that falls on rocky ground fails. Why? Because it falls on rocky ground! And so on. I still am not sure of your explanation, since the parable is clearly about the types of soil and why certain people (soil) do not bear good fruit - since the grace (seed) falls everywhere.

You see, Jesus is simply stating how the world around him responds. (Luke 8)

Ah, that's more like it... I guess your explanation had me wondering...

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Ah, that's more like it... I guess your explanation had me wondering...

K.I.S.S. :kissing

 

[Sam21]

K.I.S.S. :kissing

Hey, it may be a simple parable but it is great that christians can all recognize what it is saying.

 

[Jake]

I think the parable is indeed explaining why the seed does not bear fruit. It is not the sower's fault, but where the seed lands. All ground receives rain, sun, etc. But the seed that falls on rocky ground fails. Why? Because it falls on rocky ground! And so on. I still am not sure of your explanation, since the parable is clearly about the types of soil and why certain people (soil) do not bear good fruit - since the grace (seed) falls everywhere.

Regards

it seems there is a combination, the seed falls everywhere and in part it is God's grace to grow it and allow the person to receive it, yet once we hear the Word, it is also our responsibility in what we do with what we hear.

we could hear it, receive it, bear fruit, but then many years later fall away, so the initial soil will not always be the final soil.

 

[stovebolts]

it seems there is a combination, the seed falls everywhere and in part it is God's grace to grow it and allow the person to receive it, yet once we hear the Word, it is also our responsibility in what we do with what we hear.

we could hear it, receive it, bear fruit, but then many years later fall away, so the initial soil will not always be the final soil.

Your thinking too hard

I see no mention of fruit from those who fall away.

Luke 8:13 And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luke 8:15 And that in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it fast, and bring forth fruit with patience.


If we look at the beginning of Luke 8, he mentions Mary Magdalene as being with them, and ironically, he begins speaking to the crowd. How many different types of hearts would be in the crowd?

I believe what you may be looking for may be found in Luke 13 starting in verse 6. Notice, it makes no mention of the type of soil. Again, I personally think it's dangerous when we start mixing parables, especially within theological terms because parables are not meant to answer all the questions you have and they always lack detail. They are told for a specific purpose and to change the primary intent of a parable is to change the intent in which Jesus wished to express himself within the setting Jesus told the parable.

Again, most parables are analogies of the world around us and how God works. They are not pictures and there is a large difference between a picture of something and an analogy of something.

 

[Jake]

Your thinking too hard

I see no mention of fruit from those who fall away.

Luke 8:13 And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luke 8:15 And that in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it fast, and bring forth fruit with patience.


If we look at the beginning of Luke 8, he mentions Mary Magdalene as being with them, and ironically, he begins speaking to the crowd. How many different types of hearts would be in the crowd?

I believe what you may be looking for may be found in Luke 13 starting in verse 6. Notice, it makes no mention of the type of soil. Again, I personally think it's dangerous when we start mixing parables, especially within theological terms because parables are not meant to answer all the questions you have and they always lack detail. They are told for a specific purpose and to change the primary intent of a parable is to change the intent in which Jesus wished to express himself within the setting Jesus told the parable.

Again, most parables are analogies of the world around us and how God works. They are not pictures and there is a large difference between a picture of something and an analogy of something.

So what are you saying? We've exhausted this parable?
Yes, I agree, as we should also look at the whole, not just one parable, yet when I wrote what I did, I was thinking of other scripture.

I am not a Bible scholar in the least as I am still very much learning, reason for all the questions. Yet, off the top of my head, I can not think of anyone as an example in the Bible, that was saved, bore fruit and then fell away. the only person I can think of is Judas, yet people will debate on whether he was ever a believer in the first place, and even if he was, did he bear fruit at all?

thanks.

 

[stovebolts]

So what are you saying? We've exhausted this parable?
Yes, I agree, as we should also look at the whole, not just one parable, yet when I wrote what I did, I was thinking of other scripture.

I am not a Bible scholar in the least as I am still very much learning, reason for all the questions. Yet, off the top of my head, I can not think of anyone as an example in the Bible, that was saved, bore fruit and then fell away. the only person I can think of is Judas, yet people will debate on whether he was ever a believer in the first place, and even if he was, did he bear fruit at all?

thanks.

Hey Rockie,

Well, I'm a student myself and every time I look at scripture I learn a bit more.

There isn't anything wrong with putting scripture together to form or support a view. Actually, it's called redaction.

But redaction is best when built off the foundation of good exegesis, which basically is a fancy word to say commentary on the original intent of what was written and why it was written. IMHO good exegesis always includes culture.

As far as exhausting the parable, the one were talking about is pretty self explanatory and Jesus even gives us it's meaning. No need in taking it much further than that IMO. But as far as your redaction goes, you wouldn't use a wrench to turn a screw and it seemed to me that you were trying to ask questions in the wrong place.

Hey, it's not like I've never done that or that I wont in the future so don't take it personally. It's all good!

 

[Jake]

Hey Rockie,

Well, I'm a student myself and every time I look at scripture I learn a bit more.

There isn't anything wrong with putting scripture together to form or support a view. Actually, it's called redaction.

But redaction is best when built off the foundation of good exegesis, which basically is a fancy word to say commentary on the original intent of what was written and why it was written. IMHO good exegesis always includes culture.

As far as exhausting the parable, the one were talking about is pretty self explanatory and Jesus even gives us it's meaning. No need in taking it much further than that IMO. But as far as your redaction goes, you wouldn't use a wrench to turn a screw and it seemed to me that you were trying to ask questions in the wrong place.

Hey, it's not like I've never done that or that I wont in the future so don't take it personally. It's all good!

i probably did, but i still think there are different levels to the Word, that at first we might not see, so we can continue pondering something and come away with even more of an understanding.

 

[Elijah674]

thanks for your answers, i got it - the capacity to love!

Good Subject. + some good answers. But, do we believe that.. 'All these things spake Jesus unto the [multitude] in parables; and [without a parable spake He not unto them]. Matt. 13:34 & verses 36-42 are fact? And then: 'Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field!;)

Then Mark 4:33-34 we find some more Truth. 'And with many such parables spake He the Word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake He not unto them: [and when they were alone, He expounded all things TO HIS DICIPLES.]'

The Seeking Christian should find whom the 'SEED' was being administered to, huh? And then there is one Parable of Christ that is 'TOP PRIORITY' as 'i' see it, for Present Day Truth. That of Matt. 25's Virgin in [ALL] Doctrine. Eph. 4:5

And one is required to hunt for the Parables explaination!;) Matt. 4:4! 'GO YE OUT TO MEET HIM', is the Message. Out of Christ's True Virgin Church?? Why was He OUTSIDE??? (Isa. 5:3 Prophecy!)

Well, in Matt. 10:5 & 6 this finds the old 'HOUSE OF Israel as LOST SHEEP', and verse 15 finds how Christ Judges between they & the vile S.& G. ones, in Judgement.
But anyway this Matt. 10 chapter was not a parable, but the answer to His Parable!! And it was these ones that started up the Acts Church. (the Remnant of Old Israel, compare Rev. 12:17 repeat!) And these of Matt. 10:5-6 were all except John, finally executed by the Church that stayed put!

--Elijah

PS: And the Hearts Ground & the Seed? Surely we know that the SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD!? There are many who have the good Seed Sown who will in due time be as was Peter, Christ said.. 'after thou art converted teach the brethern', we all know what happened before Peter went out and [WEPT BITTERLY], huh?

It takes time for 'the SEED TO CONCEIVE' & to grow.;) And even then 'we' all grow differently into Maturity, meaning that we can be much slower than others & then even further ahead in other 'talents' or whatever! (Heb. 5) Yet we can still be Perfect 'In Christ' as your title has it! (at each 'crawling stage of developement, huh?)

 

[Jake]

Good Subject. + some good answers. But, do we believe that.. 'All these things spake Jesus unto the [multitude] in parables; and [without a parable spake He not unto them]. Matt. 13:34 & verses 36-42 are fact? And then: 'Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field!;)

Then Mark 4:33-34 we find some more Truth. 'And with many such parables spake He the Word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake He not unto them: [and when they were alone, He expounded all things TO HIS DICIPLES.]'

The Seeking Christian should find whom the 'SEED' was being administered to, huh? And then there is one Parable of Christ that is 'TOP PRIORITY' as 'i' see it, for Present Day Truth. That of Matt. 25's Virgin in [ALL] Doctrine. Eph. 4:5

And one is required to hunt for the Parables explaination!;) Matt. 4:4! 'GO YE OUT TO MEET HIM', is the Message. Out of Christ's True Virgin Church?? Why was He OUTSIDE??? (Isa. 5:3 Prophecy!)

Well, in Matt. 10:5 & 6 this finds the old 'HOUSE OF Israel as LOST SHEEP', and verse 15 finds how Christ Judges between they & the vile S.& G. ones, in Judgement.
But anyway this Matt. 10 chapter was not a parable, but the answer to His Parable!! And it was these ones that started up the Acts Church. (the Remnant of Old Israel, compare Rev. 12:17 repeat!) And these of Matt. 10:5-6 were all except John, finally executed by the Church that stayed put!

--Elijah

PS: And the Hearts Ground & the Seed? Surely we know that the SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD!? There are many who have the good Seed Sown who will in due time be as was Peter, Christ said.. 'after thou art converted teach the brethern', we all know what happened before Peter went out and [WEPT BITTERLY], huh?

It takes time for 'the SEED TO CONCEIVE' & to grow.;) And even then 'we' all grow differently into Maturity, meaning that we can be much slower than others & then even further ahead in other 'talents' or whatever! (Heb. 5) Yet we can still be Perfect 'In Christ' as your title has it! (at each 'crawling stage of developement, huh?)

 

[Jennie]

Very interesting thread, guys!
I wonder if I could ask a question?
Does this seem right to you?
I always have thought that the plowing was kind of up to me.
And that if I put my hand to the plow and then turned back, I was not fit for the Kingdom.

I had thought that it was kind of like...He seems to point something out to me that is not good. (A rock, a hard place, a weed) Then it is my job to agree with what He sees and directs me to address with Him and plow it under.

I don't know...what do you think?