Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

[Rev33]

It's not that the sinner does not have a choice, it's that they rejected and God will remove all the sinners off the planet just like the days of Noah.

Yet Revelation 22, in its depiction of the Post Apocalypse reality, on the NEW Heavens and NEW earth, AFTER the OLD earth and Heavens have passed away, and the New Jerusalem has come down from heaven, cites the fact that right outside the gates of that New city are Sinners of all types:

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[ outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.


How did these people get there if they were removed from the earth sometime prior as you say??

 

[JLB]

Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


Rom_10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Yep. Scripture infallibly claims that the Gospel had been preached throughout the WHOLE WORLD, to EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN by the Late 60's AD.

if it is so that you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which is being proclaimed in all creation under heaven; of which I, Paul, was made a servant. Colossians 1:23

Yes the Gospel is being proclaimed to all creation even to day.

Amen!


JLB

 

[JLB]

it is measured by the continuing increase in number of Christians

Please post the quote where I said this.


JLB

 

[reba]

Yup... it was ....it is.... and will be... until He returns

 

[JLB]

Yup... it was ....it is.... and will be... until He returns

 

[reba]

Friendly reminder all happy and pink


​

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

reba

 

[Rev33]

it is measured by the continuing increase in number of Christians

Please post the quote where I said this.


JLB

Already did, Twice, but OK, 3rd times a charm i guess..

When you responded with the affirmation "Amen Sister" to rebas assertion that the increase is measured by increase in number of Christians in your post # 197 http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=53242&p=844674&viewfull=1#post844674


But I'm a reasonable guy, if you misspoke, and did not mean to throw your support behind rebas assertion and want to clarify YOUR standard of measurement when you say "By His Subjects", i will ask again, by His subjects HOW?

If not quantity, then what? Quality? Hair Color? Musical ability? Craftyness? sense of humor? HOW?

 

[Rev33]

if it is so that you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which is being proclaimed in all creation under heaven; of which I, Paul, was made a servant. Colossians 1:23 Yes the Gospel is being proclaimed to all creation even to day. Amen! JLB

Paul declares that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven in HIS day:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;​

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.​

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23 the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Paul said that the gospel was made known to all nations.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;​

HAS BEEN MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS.
I believe Paul.

 

[Rev33]

I can see that you think that Jesus came 2000 years before the end of the age, whereby I believe He will come at the end of the age.

End of What Age?
And When did that Age Begin?

The Bible is clear that Jesus was born into and lived in the "LAST DAYS" of the Age.

So, what AGE was/is it that, according to scripture, had it's "LAST DAYS" 2000 years ago?

 

[Rev33]

I am glad I did not take the time to look up who said that, EDITED harpazō.......................... Caught up.

Well, Im not one who is in the camp of "rapture isn't biblical," for as you clearly point out, it is... I just differ on the NATURE of the term from many folks here.
Paul affirms my stance when he says Harpazo could refer to the body being "caught up" but it could also refer to the Christian being "caught up" without the body:

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago; whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows; such a one was caught up (harpazo) to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man; whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows; 4 how he was caught up (harpazo) into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul shows here that he doesn't know whether the body was involved in this man's "snatching away". The body isn't necessary, then, in the harpazo event, or Paul wouldn't have expressed this uncertainty.

 

[reba]

Friendly reminder all happy and pink


​

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

reba

 

[Brother Mike]

Be kind to the Trolls Reba............ There is a troll in all of us. REBA SAYS

Well, Im not one who is in the camp of "rapture isn't biblical," for as you clearly point out, it is... I just differ on the NATURE of the term from many folks here.
Paul affirms my stance when he says Harpazo could refer to the body being "caught up" but it could also refer to the Christian being "caught up" without the body:

Thank you REV............ I think you more of a person that see's things that have already come to pass. JLB is a big Post tribber, and I am a Big Pre Tribber. So we have 3 different views on how this all will wash out.

JLB and I are the same belief of events that will occur minus how long believers will hang around. That would be our only difference but all the events are the same, just who is around on earth for the events is different.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Rev33]

Thank you REV............ I think you more of a person that see's things that have already come to pass. JLB is a big Post tribber, and I am a Big Pre Tribber. So we have 3 different views on how this all will wash out.

Yep. And its a good thing that Understanding and accepting the "correct eschatology" has no bearing on ones salvation.

But back to my earlier question of you Brother Mike: How do you think sinners get back on the new earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem as Revelation 22 states, if as you claim they were all removed from the earth some time prior?

 

[Brother Mike]

How do you think sinners get back on the new earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem as Revelation 22 states, if as you claim they were all removed from the earth some time prior?

There are definitely folks running around at the end, not allowed into the great city we get to be at. JLB knows!!! ask him (sneaking out the back very quit like..............)

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

How did these people get there if they were removed from the earth sometime prior as you say??

Revelation 22 NKJV
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Revelation 21 NKJV
25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Personally I see Rev. 22, as being the message to the church, sinners will not be allowed to enter, they won't make it.
However, Rev 21, give a much more detailed description of the city and Here we see that those will be ultimately in the lake of fire, second death.

So does the New Jerusalem already exist? Are their saints there now? Sinners shut out in the outer darkness until judgment day?

 

[JLB]

I can see that you think that Jesus came 2000 years before the end of the age, whereby I believe He will come at the end of the age.

End of What Age?
And When did that Age Begin?

The Bible is clear that Jesus was born into and lived in the "LAST DAYS" of the Age.

So, what AGE was/is it that, according to scripture, had it's "LAST DAYS" 2000 years ago?

This age.

The end of this age.

The age to come, or "that age" is the age of the resurrection.


I have been over all the scriptures you used and more, with the last bunch that was here.

This is the age of people getting married and people dying.

The age to come is where people neither marry, nor do they die anymore.


JLB

 

[Rev33]

This is the age of people getting married and people dying.

Then How was it the LAST DAYS of this age 2000 years ago?

The age to come is where people neither marry, nor do they die anymore.

John 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

I do. Do you?

 

[Rev33]

How do you think sinners get back on the new earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem as Revelation 22 states, if as you claim they were all removed from the earth some time prior?

There are definitely folks running around at the end, not allowed into the great city we get to be at. JLB knows!!! ask him (sneaking out the back very quit like..............)

Mike.

But Mike, Revelation 22 does not depict the end of the Old earth and heavens but the beginning of the new... AFTER the great white throne judgement, after the old H&E have passed away and been replaced by the New H&E, and scripture shows us that sinners still abound there, albeit outside the city's gates... since you previously claimed all sinners would be removed before this event, how did they get there?

 

[Brother Mike]

albeit outside the city's gates... since you previously claimed all sinners would be removed before this event, how did they get there?

They are the people of Walmart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM

The scripture does not denote a complete wipe of the earth but the trumpets and especially the vials will kill most.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Then How was it the LAST DAYS of this age 2000 years ago?

The end of the age was not 200 years ago.

It is the last Day of this age when Jesus returns and raises us up at the resurrection of the dead.


JLB