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Adam and Eve

L

lemonfresh

Guest
Why are the children of Adam and Eve (and all of humanity for that matter), supposedly punished for the actions of their parents? If a judge were to punish the son of a man simply because his father did something wrong, the average person would say that the judge is being unfair. Punishing the children of a person for actions of their parents is something that the Mafia does. I would not expect an all loving God to do this. Can someone give me a explanation?
 
Children inherit their physical characteristics from their parents. They also inherit their spiritual characteristics from their parents. Adam and Eve did not have children until after they had sinned, and their physical and spiritual characteristics had changed, and these characteristics were passed on to all of the generations of man through Adam's sin.
 
Rob said:
Something I have been reading and might help you is this,

http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbsindex.htm

I'm going to be watching this thread myself though because I'm interested to see what kind of answers you get.
Click to expand...

This site reminds me of this verse of scripture:

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4

Jesus teaches in John 3 that one must be born of the flesh and of the Spirit in order to see and enter the Kingdom of God. If one is born just in the flesh, the physical birth, one can not see or enter the Kingdom of God. Why not? Because flesh and blood will not enter into the Kingdom of God because of the flesh is sinful, corrupt.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:3-8

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:50

When one is born of the flesh and born of the Spirit, a new creature is created whereby one can see and enter the Kingdom of God. Why? Because Jesus paid the penalty for sin, for the wages of sin is death. Do infants die? Yes. Why? Because they are born with the inherited sin of Adam and death has passed down from Adam to present. If infants had not the penalty of sin on their life from Adam, they would not die until they intentionally sinned when older. Sin is on all when they come into the world through Adam, but through Jesus Christ, sin is defeated.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5:12-14

 
Solo said:
Children inherit their physical characteristics from their parents. They also inherit their spiritual characteristics from their parents. Adam and Eve did not have children until after they had sinned, and their physical and spiritual characteristics had changed, and these characteristics were passed on to all of the generations of man through Adam's sin.
Click to expand...

Thats just it, we don't punish people for being born with a physical defect. A person has no control on what they inherit either way. It is immoral to punish people for crimes they did not commit.
 
IF a mother drinks while pregnant her child will come out deformed. Same with men exposed to certain chemicals.
 
lemonfresh said:
Why are the children of Adam and Eve (and all of humanity for that matter), supposedly punished for the actions of their parents? If a judge were to punish the son of a man simply because his father did something wrong, the average person would say that the judge is being unfair. Punishing the children of a person for actions of their parents is something that the Mafia does. I would not expect an all loving God to do this. Can someone give me a explanation?
Click to expand...

What punishment do you see as having been passed on to all humanity from Adam & Eve?
 
Eze 18:14 ¶ Now, lo, [if] he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

Eze 18:15 [That] hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,

Eze 18:16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, [but] hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,

Eze 18:17 [That] hath taken off his hand from the poor, [that] hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

Rules....to live by.....The son not responsible if he obeys God......

continued.......

[As for] his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did [that] which [is] not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.


Eze 18:19 ¶ Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, [and] hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.


Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Eze 18:21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.


Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?


Eze 18:24 ¶ But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


Eze 18:25 ¶ Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?


Eze 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Eze 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?


Eze 18:30 ¶ Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.


Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.
 
mutzrein said:
What punishment do you see as having been passed on to all humanity from Adam & Eve?
Click to expand...


Gen. 3:16 I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.


Gen. 3: 17 ...Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."


Romans 5:12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men

Adam and Eve aren't in paradise anymore being subject to eventual death and so the rest of humanity can't be in paradise either. And now people supposedly need to redeem themselves for something they didn't do.
 
lemonfresh said:
mutzrein said:
What punishment do you see as having been passed on to all humanity from Adam & Eve?
Click to expand...


Gen. 3:16 I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.


Gen. 3: 17 ...Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."


Romans 5:12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men

Adam and Eve aren't in paradise anymore being subject to eventual death and so the rest of humanity can't be in paradise either. And now people supposedly need to redeem themselves for something they didn't do.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for that. I'm especially taken by V16 "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." What a punishment!!

Anyway on a serious note, I think the issue which seem to concern us greatly, since none of us have escaped these consequences of Adam & Eve's sin is that we die. As the scriptures that you use point out. We are all destined to perish - to return to the dust.

But - what intrigues me is your last statement; "And now people supposedly need to redeem themselves for something they didn't do."

Where does this notion come from that we can redeem ourselves?
 
lemonfresh said:
Solo said:
Children inherit their physical characteristics from their parents. They also inherit their spiritual characteristics from their parents. Adam and Eve did not have children until after they had sinned, and their physical and spiritual characteristics had changed, and these characteristics were passed on to all of the generations of man through Adam's sin.
Click to expand...

Thats just it, we don't punish people for being born with a physical defect. A person has no control on what they inherit either way. It is immoral to punish people for crimes they did not commit.
Click to expand...

All of us are born sinners because of our inherited make up with which we had no say so over, but God has sent one to take that inherited sin away so that we could live eternally with him. That which God created good became sinful, and needed God to correct. If mankind does not have inherited sin, why has no one ever lived without dying? Death comes from the sin of Adam over the whole human race according to the scriptures.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:5-21
 
The Adamic family lasted up until the Cross, Jesus became the last Adam. The people of God where promised a new Heart and a new Spirit and we became adopted Sons, being Jesus the first born brother of this new nature.

Because of the apostasy we find ourselves in many of us cannot understand FAITH. The Adamic position was the position of men before the Cross.

After the Cross we inherited a new position in Christ. The old position is now a condition, that if you don’t understand Faith it will manifest the fruit of the Spirit as Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness etc. etc.
The problem is: “…another law in [our] members, warring against the law of [our] mind…†[Condition] Romans 17:23
But the beauty is that you can learn as Paul says: “With the mind I myself serve the law of God†[Position] Romans 17:25
 
And be aware that man is inherently 'selfish'. More concerned with 'his OWN' than what matters MOST. So, to state that something seems 'fair' or 'unfair' can ONLY be assumed through the 'flesh' and the simple understanding of the 'world'.

God has NEVER stated ANYTHING about 'fairness' concerning OUR definition of it. If ANYTHING, Christ offered parables indicating that 'OUR' sense of 'fairness' is COMPLETELY askew.

That we have been 'given' this life SHOULD be ENOUGH. Enough for us to appreciate it and offer the gratitude deserving such a 'gift'. Thoughts of 'fairness' and such are nothing more than 'self' and should play NO part in our understanding of God and His relationship with mankind.

If one would truly seek to understand 'fairness', let's look at Christ Himself. Was it 'fair' that He should suffer for our sins? See, it's not about 'fair', it's about LOVE. Not about 'taking', (or our individual pleasure), it's about GIVING. Christ IS the ultimate example. He gave ALL for those that couldn't have cared LESS about Him. He loved us enough to die for us when we were NOT ONLY oblivious to Him and His Father, but when were ENEMIES of both Him AND The Father. Is THAT fair?

MEC
 
Another problem with the Adam and Eve story; Adam and Eve are supposed to completely innocent and have no knowledge of evil. God tells Adam that he will surely die if he eats from the tree.

But how does he know that dying is a bad thing if he has never experienced it?

If they don't know right from wrong how do they know its bad to disobey God?
 
lemonfresh said:
Another problem with the Adam and Eve story; Adam and Eve are supposed to completely innocent and have no knowledge of evil. God tells Adam that he will surely die if he eats from the tree.

But how does he know that dying is a bad thing if he has never experienced it?

If they don't know right from wrong how do they know its bad to disobey God?
Click to expand...

.
................You are not seri :shocked!:
................ :shocked!: You are not serious, right?! :shocked!:
................You are not seri :shocked!:
.
 
lemonfresh said:
Why are the children of Adam and Eve (and all of humanity for that matter), supposedly punished for the actions of their parents?
Click to expand...

Analogies have always helped me to understand the things of God.
Imagine that you have a son. You love him, and have told him everything that you have is his. You have one rule. You will not allow drugs in your house.
One day you come home and find that not only does he have drugs in the house, but that he is doing them with your worst enemy. He has decided to go along with your worst enemy and trash his relationship with you.

You command him out of the house.

He leaves you, and later has children, and his children have children. Some of them find their way back to you, and you welcome them as your own.

Others decide that they want nothing to do with you, and consider you to be cruel. Some of them don't know anything about you. Others are in desperate need. You can not force any of them to come home to you. You can not control their lives. You can put the word out that you love them and that you are ready, willing and able to help them.

God allows the world to continue the way it is because He knows that some of Adams children will return. He has also given us enough information to know the cost of remaining without Him.
 
As a parent you wouldn't burn your children for eternity because they didn't love you.
 
lemonfresh said:
As a parent you wouldn't burn your children for eternity because they didn't love you.
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Of course not, and the idea that God would subject any human beings to an eternity of torment in hell is quite probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Sadly, I used to accept this - until I actually started to think and examine the Scriptures. I do not think the Scriptures support the existence of eternal torment for the lost, and I think the whole notion simply cannot be reconciled with the concept of a loving God.
 
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