Adam & Eve VS Lucifer (the serpent)

[Classik]

Adam & Eve VS Lucifer (the serpent)
If you ask me who messed up our earth...I will tell you both the serpent And Adam+Eve messed up our earth.

But, what if the Serpent had not deceived Eve? I guess we would have been perfect and would have beeen with God. No sufferings - no bbbaaadd! No evil.

Now the two question that have always bothered me are:

1. What if the serpent had not deceived Eve - (i.e what if Adam and Eve had willingly (on their own accord)eaten of the fruit?) and,

i. The devil didn't sin against God.
ii. The devil sinned against God but didn't deceived them (only the two had sinned)


2. What if only Eve had sinned? and...
i. The devil didn't sin against God.
ii. The devil sinned against God but didn't deceived them (only Eve had sinned)


Another strange thread?

 

[Man-After-God]

Maybe you will remember, and ask God when we get to heaven!:eeeekkk:eeeekkk

 

[tim-from-pa]

1. What if the serpent had not deceived Eve - (i.e what if Adam and Eve had willingly (on their own accord)eaten of the fruit?) and,

i. The devil didn't sin against God.
ii. The devil sinned against God but didn't deceived them (only the two had sinned)

The same thing would have happened. Eating of that tree would have brought death. Satan already fell at that point and man being in sin would have sold himself off to him the same way.

2. What if only Eve had sinned? and...
i. The devil didn't sin against God.
ii. The devil sinned against God but didn't deceived them (only Eve had sinned)

It's tempting to say only she would have died and had Adam eaten of that tree of life and lived forever, that God would simply bring to him another mate. But I don't think God is that cruel, not after Adam loved Eve as his wife. Had Adam eaten of that tree of life would have in effect become Christ. However, let's think this out --- such a man could not die for his wife. To be even more creative, could the Father have him die for her and raise again with that tree of life?

The justification I am using for this path of thought is thinking of Adam as Christ and Eve as the church. The church sinned. Christ did not. So what happened now? Christ became sin. Now extrapolate that to Adam and Eve had she only sinned.

Then there's one other point to consider: Adam in effect had sinned by not watching over his wife, and allowing her to be deceived. The proof of that is simply because he did eat. Had he been inclined to NOT eat of it, then Eve would not have been deceived to begin with because he would have been doing his job watching over her and teaching her. Actually, I like that thought experiment better because it simplifies things.

 

[Bfnaught]

Then there's one other point to consider: Adam in effect had sinned by not watching over his wife, and allowing her to be deceived. The proof of that is simply because he did eat. Had he been inclined to NOT eat of it, then Eve would not have been deceived to begin with because he would have been doing his job watching over her and teaching her. Actually, I like that thought experiment better because it simplifies things.

Genesis 3:6 NIV

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Adam was with Eve when the devil sweet talked her. Adams silence and passivity led to man's downfall. If he hadn't eaten of the fruit, he still would have been held accountable.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Genesis 3:6 NIV

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Adam was with Eve when the devil sweet talked her. Adams silence and passivity led to man's downfall. If he hadn't eaten of the fruit, he still would have been held accountable.

That settles it, then. Not watching over her just like I stated. That was easy enough.

 

[joethemechanic]

Adam had problems with women.

In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror.

Both of them took control away from him and then cheated.

First Lillith, then Eve. It's like a pattern with him.

 

[Classik]

Maybe you will remember, and ask God when we get to heaven!

:toofunny Indeed! Welcome

 

[Classik]

The same thing would have happened. Eating of that tree would have brought death. Satan already fell at that point and man being in sin would have sold himself off to him the same way. It's tempting to say only she would have died and had Adam eaten of that tree of life and lived forever, that God would simply bring to him another mate. But I don't think God is that cruel, not after Adam loved Eve as his wife. Had Adam eaten of that tree of life would have in effect become Christ. However, let's think this out --- such a man could not die for his wife. To be even more creative, could the Father have him die for her and raise again with that tree of life? The justification I am using for this path of thought is thinking of Adam as Christ and Eve as the church. The church sinned. Christ did not. So what happened now? Christ became sin. Now extrapolate that to Adam and Eve had she only sinned. Then there's one other point to consider: Adam in effect had sinned by not watching over his wife, and allowing her to be deceived. The proof of that is simply because he did eat. Had he been inclined to NOT eat of it, then Eve would not have been deceived to begin with because he would have been doing his job watching over her and teaching her. Actually, I like that thought experiment better because it simplifies things.

Great thought. This is indeed astonishing.

 

[Fedusenko]

Then there's one other point to consider: Adam in effect had sinned by not watching over his wife, and allowing her to be deceived. The proof of that is simply because he did eat. Had he been inclined to NOT eat of it, then Eve would not have been deceived to begin with because he would have been doing his job watching over her and teaching her. Actually, I like that thought experiment better because it simplifies things.

Then by that notion, God sinned, too. If Adam is Eve's 'head covering' and adam is guilty of her sin, then God is guilty of Adam's sin as He is Adam's 'head covering'. Do you see the implication?

As for what God would do... I imagine He would be fairly consistent. She would die. I am curious how this would affect Adam, especially if he was partnered with someone else. Would he be a hardened dictator? What do you think?

 

[Classik]

Then by that notion, God sinned, too.

God's the boss.Adam probably was not willing to look after the wife. He had selfwill.....so he did it his own way.

 

[Classik]

God asked Adam to take care of the wife...protect her. There were no wild animals. What was he protecting him from? :dunno

 

[tim-from-pa]

Then by that notion, God sinned, too. If Adam is Eve's 'head covering' and adam is guilty of her sin, then God is guilty of Adam's sin as He is Adam's 'head covering'. Do you see the implication?

As for what God would do... I imagine He would be fairly consistent. She would die. I am curious how this would affect Adam, especially if he was partnered with someone else. Would he be a hardened dictator? What do you think?

OK, that's a valid point regarding responsibility because the bible does teach every man dies for his own sin. So, let's go back to my first premise. How would that work? i.e. dying for his wife?